1. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    @Don, I will put my ear to the ground after Christmas... if i hear it rumble I'll be in touch... I will get some specifics of you before hand...
     
  2. cdoug_e

    cdoug_e Junior Member

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    Hey the bolota he was first referring to is Holm Oak or Quercus ilex. Darren Daugherty said he had planted some as well as cork in Bendigo so you may be able to contact him about the whereabouts and seed. Me and a former student of mine who works for an association called Quercus in Portugal are looking at approaching the cork industry with a proposal for developing the new plantations with an integrated systems approach. This is the traditional way and there is a great BBC about the montado. I couldn't find the whole thing but here is an excerpt about the black pigs slurping them up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA0lajZXio0
    Our proposed approach would be on the keyline pattern and inoculating with compost tea to see if we can't shave a couple years time off of when they produce as well as the time and plant stacking yields that would happen earlier. It will be nice to be back in Iberia soon, it is where I will do most of my work this year. I am apart of a 230 ha project in Anduulucia, Spain that has massive Holm Oak trees. We are looking at developing this resource as the trees must be 300 years old and just pump the corns. We really need to develop an understory as despite having this over story it is tough to build any organic matter as the hills are steep and the soil has collapsed- calcium to mag is way off. The goats way overgrazed from the last owners. And we are working in Alentejo, portugal with a former student on rotational grazing and once Jesus, our keyline guy in Spain, gets his plow armor plated then we can do work in this part of Portugal as it is very rocky because there is no soil left. Thanks dictator and his beloved wheat plant.
     
  3. DonHansford

    DonHansford Junior Member

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    I was in Tenterfield a few weeks back, almost in your back yard :D

    Send me the info, and I'll go take a look & see when they'll be ready - I'll go you halves in what I can get ;)

    Hard part is finding places that don't get mowed/sprayed too often. I was eying off a spot on the bank of the Condamine, but it's about two or three feet under at the moment :(

    Sounds like fun - I could've done with some of that stuff in my old heavy drinking days - sometimes had trouble finding the way home :rofl:
    Just a thought, that artimisia vulgaris is a real good tonic if you cut it up and soak it in cider vinegar for a few weeks - lots of great properties.

    And to you, my friend
     
  4. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    Greets All,
    I would like to get back to my original spray,I respect that some of you are going down the path of enlightenment and embracing the idiots.
    It's a righteous path.
    I am not so patient,not so understanding.
    Everything is black and white to me.
    I have dealt with countless versions of this type of idiot so I don't like to spend to much time trying to nurture them into something resembling a humus bean.
    I have done in the past and it's disappointing and wasteful of personal energy.

    The positive attitude that abounds in developing nations, the resourcefulness,the pragmatism,ingenuity and zest for life even when life is hopeless is an attitude I can support.
    A good friend of mine related a story to me about a group of American and European kids,sitting around a campfire during a permaculture course were"sharing stories"one member was from a developing nation.
    One of the Americans was describing how he was spiritually "wounded"and that's why he was unhappy.The student from the developing nation asked what "wounded" meant.
    After it was translated,she understood.
    Her reply was something along the lines of.
    "Yes I am wounded too my friend,but I pretend to be happy in the hope that one day it will be true".This sort of attitude is one that I can respect without reservation.
    I have seen quite a few perma people struggle for the movement,the struggle gives them legitimacy nothing good ever comes wrapped up for you, quite often you need to fashion it for yourself.What's rotten to the bone are these spoiled kids wanting it all for nothing.
    As a side note I am more than happy to to take correspondence in Portuguese,Spanish,Indonesian or French just so people feel that they are speaking the same language;>)
    Best Wishes
    Fernando Pessoa
     
  5. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Fernando, I totally understand your sentiments, especially since you saw that your efforts to help the wounded did not reach the frontal lobe at the right angle. Therefore I think it certainly is a choice as to how one responds to such people. Whether they feel they have it in them to lead by example or kick em back to the ditch to let them work it out for themselves.

    I must admit though that the only thing that helped me were the people who did it for a living, therapists. That said in conjunction with them, the people who had been kind to me before that stage also had a positive effect on me in the ultimate long term as i remembered their example of kindness and can now behave more like them, but it needed the catalyst of a professional to transform me into a better person. I could not learn anything from kind people, not before i had therapy. I don't think my therapy would have been as successful had i also not read a ton of books about how it worked, and self-help stuff and all things related to mental health. Therapy is very subtle and it helps to have things spelt out in a book as well. (yes this is true for smart people too as smart people also have these mental health blindspots)

    But further since then, i have also noticed that I do feel better about me and my life when i am kind, generous and empathic to others. I feel bad about myself if i am brutal to others.

    I don't believe in pretending to be happy. I have heard so many people on a depression forum talk about this. They are suffering deeply and their problems are not being dealt with. Certainly being wounded is no excuse to be a shit. But what you find is that the most wounded ones simply have no idea how not to be a shit. Its obvious to the more enlightened types. They take it for granted through the good luck of their genetics. So if you come across such shitty people, suggest they would benefit from therapy and probably also antidepressants. Not that they will listen to you. Or suggest some indian philosophy such as Krishnamurti (who is probably the best) or karen armstrong on the buddha (good explanation of buddhism without all the woowoo).
     
  6. aroideana

    aroideana Junior Member

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    Aus 60 minutes repeat last night of the guy who has no arms and no legs ' no worries' he said .
    what an inspiration , he now talks in USA to thousands .
    'spiritually wounded' do you get that from bad grog ?
     
  7. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Mike he was obviously a much loved child and has good genes. Just a pity about the medication the pregnant mother took.
     
  8. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

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    I think perhaps we're all a bit guilty of making assumptions here.

    Being a Brit living in Portugal, I tend to assume, however inaccurately, that most people in Oz are white, of European descent, fairly well off, and perfectly happy about taking land off the natives for their own purposes. I also assume that you make assumptions about Europeans. I'm assuming that you assume that Portugal, being in Europe, and in particular in the West, is part of 'Western Europe'. It's not difficult to imagine why you might assume that, and it seems from some of the posts made here that you also assume that anyone who owns land here is fairly well off, and likely to be a 'spoilt brat'. That is not, however, what I see happening around me. What I see is villages occupied only by old people as there is no money to support families here. I see villages dying as the people of working age have all long since left to attempt to find work in the cities. I see old people whose only heating is provided by whatever wood they can carry home on their heads, which, by the time they are in their eighties, isn't very much. I see them shitting in their back yards as they have no indoor sanitation, picking up dead birds they find on the side of the roads to take home to cook so they can have some meat, putting buckets out to catch rain water as it is cheaper than the town water and it's quite a walk to the font if they want 'real' water. I see patches of abandoned land that they own but never even visit which they have inherited from their parents but don't even try to sell, partly because no-one would buy it even if they tried to sell and partly because they inherited it so they feel they must pass it on to their own children, even if the children have never visited it because they have been stuck in the city trying to earn a living. The farm we bought here only came up for sale because the only daughter of the owners died unexpectedly and the old couple couldn't bear the thought of it being claimed by the government after their death and wanted to find a new family for it.

    I suspect that Miguel is likely to be one of the few young people who has not only inherited land but also decided to see if he can actually do something with it. I may be wrong, but I think he may not be the 'spoilt brat' that some of you seem to assume he must be. It's more likely that he failed to find any sane way of making a living in the city so decided to return to his roots and his ancestral land to try to find a way to live off that land. When you struggle doing something like that, it probably comes as a bit of a shock to see how much hard cash is charged for education by 'rich whites who take other people's land on the other side of the world'. OK, so his outburst may have been a little over the top, but, from his point of view, it may be have been perfectly rational.

    Maybe it's time for us all to stop judging each other and start reassessing some of our assumptions.
     
  9. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Can we have a "Like" button installed on the forum... Some replies to threads such as these need highlighted attention... like Burra's :)
     
  10. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    Greets All,
    How about a big smile for some of my posts?:>)

    "Education should be free or are you in this for money???!!! my god, you are all rotten to the bone! thank you but i ll continue to be an autodidact!!!!"


    Had this statement read,something like "Hello my name is Miguel,I am interested in doing a permaculture course in Australia and I would like to understand why the courses are expensive,I am an activist with some land and I would like to do some good in the world but I am afraid the cost might be to much for me.

    I would have replied you know you have a number of wonderful educators in Europe,(insert a dozen names and addresses),why don't you try them first.The local knowledge and networking might also be helpful to you to further your activism.
    I would have explained to him that PRI Australia,already supports a number of worthwhile permaculture activities(including this site),funds truly worthy applicants with scholarships and is run by hard working and devoted people who live simply and frugally,and return the surplus in more ways than anyone can imagine,practice earth-care,fair share and above all they care for people.This comes to some cost both financially and personally.
    To be at the charitable end of permaculture is to live a life of almost perpetual poverty,cdoug has already let us know how this has caused problems in his own relationship,you risk yourself and your health.

    It's not an assumption I am making,I am reacting to his poor form.
    It's form that as I have said, is usually carried by a certain sub set of males 18-25,I doubt their sincerity to them it's just a way to meet women,be cool and have kudos...enter the perma- vulture.It's a chance to wax lyrical and antagonize and agitate at every point.It's a chance to be radical.
    Like I have said previously, I have precious small energy for people of this persuasion.

    Miguel had a chance to pull it back on course and he continued to bait,I am not making an assumption I am making an observation on events that have already unfolded.
    The one thing Miguel can do as an Automated dick is teach himself some manners and respect.

    My Grandmother used to say to me there are only two words you need in this world Fe FE(she called me fe fe).One of them is thankyou the other one is please.

    Ele fala muito e faz um pouco.
     
  11. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Alrighty... A big smiley button it is then... :D
     
  12. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    I'm with Fernando on this Eric - the fool does not deserve our respect with the attitude shown.
     
  13. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    I totally agree PP...

    I am wondering if something i said assumed otherwise... ?
     
  14. sun burn

    sun burn Junior Member

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    Yes it sounds like you agree with Burra and therefore not Fernando.
     
  15. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

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    Whoa guys - I was only saying that we (that is all of us, including Miguel) should be aware that we aren't always seeing the whole picture. And as for respect, I tend to try to give it even when it is isn't deserved. As a way of leading by example. At least once. After that I expect people to have shown some signs of returning the favour else I don't bother again.

    The ball is in Miguel's court now.
     
  16. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I agree with both Fernando and Burra :)

    The guy did come back and leave a very useless second post.
     
  17. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Now i'm confused :think:

    Are we referring to Burra's comments, Fernando or the originator of this thread...

    The originator of this thread made a statement that was not worthy of further comment. Burra made a point (and well written i must admit) that we do often make assumptions about people and the things they say... I think our assumptions on the originator are justified.

    Even with that said, Burra's comments are also justified in that we all should probably... "walk a mile in the other persons shoes... that way we are a mile away from them and we have their shoes :D
     
  18. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    It's all good Eric - I love your work
     
  19. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    In the immortal words of Jeff Fenech
    "I luv youse all"
     
  20. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    That's true Eric. I also thought Fernando's point about it being an observation of someone's behaviour was good. Irrespective of the original posters background and motivations his behaviour here was pretty off.
     

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