Compost toilet

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by Alex.s, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. Alex.s

    Alex.s Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello all.
    I am about to make a compost toilet as a substantial move into a recycling household system.
    I have a design set out but I was wondering if anyone has done this before;
    can you use material besides sawdust as the covering? I am most interested in resources that are available around the house, the easiest would be soil, would this work? I'm also interested because if this was to be viable for many people there should be something more environmentally friendly than sawdust.
    Thanks!
     
  2. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ideally you want a cover material with a good carbon content which will supply energy to the microbes which break the poop down. Without energy, you're not likely get the microbes active enough to reach high enough temperatures to be certain to kill any nasties in the poop. Soil isn't really likely to have enough carbon in it. Maybe you could experiment with dried, crumbled up leaves, or shredded paper, or dried grass/hay/straw. The trick is to see what you have around that you can use. Ideally, get a thermometer so you can check what temperature your compost reaches then if you find something that works, let us all know.

    I use sawdust because it's really easy for me to get. There is a sawmill nearby and the owner lets me collect a trailer-full, free of charge, whenever I want it. It's just a waste product to him, and the most environmentally friendly thing I can think of to happen to it is for it to be composted and returned to the soil. I would also imagine, but I'm not entirely sure, that if we used wood for all our heating then we might just have enough sawdust from that to use as a cover material. We recently sawed up a load of wood for an elderly neighbour and then swept up about a month's supply of cover material, so maybe it's more environmentally friendly than you think.
     
  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    we used dried mushroom compost from the mushy farm. are you going to run a dry system (imagine you are doing similar to humanure sawdust bucket?), that is collect urine seperately so only incidental urine goes into toilet? the urine is best added to other water for the garden.

    len
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Although the Humanure/sawdust bucket system developed by Joe Jenkins is dependent on keeping the urine in the mix (you need the urine to break down the poo).

    There's conversations on Jenkins' forum about various cover materials too - https://www.jenkinspublishing.com/messages/
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    we found with nature-loo incidental urine was more than enough, and many oteher n/l users do same. if need be i guess they could decant some of the urine into the toilet toward the end if an issue is percieved.

    len
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    It's a different system Len. Many of the commercial systems use urine diversion successfully, and this can be done with a home built system too. But Joe Jenkins' Humanure/sawdust bucket system needs the urine left in to work properly.

    Things like how much cover material is needed, how long the manure can be left before use etc are different between the two systems.

    Does yours break down in the unit enough to use on the garden, or do you have to let it sit for a period of time before use?
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    g'day pebble,

    ours broke down over up to 7 months in the drum and was then humus type material with none of its original form and no odour and lots of worm wee in the bottom because we used worms for the composting. so even if i had a bucket which i at least plan to when i can set one up, i will use only incidental urine unless i see it needs more, as i understand bucket type susytems need to be composted before use(as recommended), so for best way would be worm farm (large on of course, and collect their wee) in compost heap lots of juice would be wasted. nature-loo by design is very simple system other more complex sytem as far as i have seen mentioned don't do so well. when we had temporary thunderbox, i buried them less than a meter down weekly, and 6-8 months later dug down to investigate it had broken down nicely. planted our pawpaw plantation over that patch.

    len
     
  8. Alex.s

    Alex.s Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was hoping to go for the simple system which seems to be the "loveable loo" in America. It mixes urine. Mushroom compost sounds great, there is a farm just down the road with a constant supply of that :) However I feel your right Burra, sawdust is probably more environmentally friendly than I assumed and is definitely an easy and free source.
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Just make sure it's untreated sawdust and not from trees that are high in anti-microbial oils.

    Len, 7 months is pretty good. Does it have a fan or heater? I think most (but not all) urine diversion systems use a fan and/or heater to assist the decomposition.
     
  10. Alex.s

    Alex.s Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    also, if you use sawdust do you need the toilet lid to be airtight to prevent insects/flies?
    Thank you for the good advice!
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    no fan or heater used, just heat derived from ambient temp' don't want it too hot for the sake of the worms. the toilet was vented by turbo wind operated vent on top of vent pipe this also connected to the full box. they do supply a fan and small motor but with enough wind it was not needed.

    funny flies should be mentioned, the first lid from n/l did not seal off it allowed for air flow and some flies long black ones not normal house flies got in, i reckon their maggots did a super job converting the material.

    len
     
  12. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Alex - yes, it is best with a lovable loo type sawdust toilet that you use a lid to keep flies out. We have flies that, even though they can't enter a bucket, will lay tiny eggs that hatch into tiny maggots that can crawl through small gaps, so really it's best with a very well fitting lid, and do what you can to reduce the number of flies around, by keeping doors shut, mesh on windows, or whatever. Most of the year it's not a problem, but just occasionally they seem to appear from nowhere be a bit annoying for a while.

    Incidentally, I *do* separate urine and my Jenkins-style humanure heap works just fine, reaching good high temperatures and rotting down well. I prefer to add any urine I can get my hands on to a separate, sawdust-rich compost pile to speed up the breakdown of the sawdust. My soil is poor and needs building up as fast as possible, and for me sawdust is one of the few things I can get my hands on in bulk and for next to nothing. The humanure heap is more of long-term investment - one year to build, one year to cure. I like some fast-turnover heaps, too, to get the soil in the vege garden up to speed.
     
  13. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Interesting. Do you have to add water to the compost heap? Is it covered or does it get rained on?
     
  14. Burra Maluca

    Burra Maluca Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I live in a very typical mediterranean climate with very hot, dry summers and then torrential rain in the winter, so my management changes drastically with the seasons. In the summer I have to add a *lot* of water to keep the whole thing from drying out, and I also cover the whole heap with black plastic sheet held in place with bricks in an attempt to keep evaporation from the surface to a minimum. During the autumn, when the first rains come I pull off the sheet entirely. During heavy or prolonged winter rains, I dome the top of the heap and use a breatheable canvas sheet so that the worst of the rain is diverted to the edge of the heap and mostly runs down the side. The poop in a humanure heap is in the middle, not near the edges, so this stops the rain washing right through the bit you want 'decontaminated'. It's a bit low-tech, but it works, and even in really wet weather I can get the temperature up to 60C and keep the pile aerobic and smell-free. I did find that investing in a thermometer really helped my get my system working well. I do like to be able to tell people that I *know* the system is safe because I make sure it's reached a suitably high temperature. It seems to keep people happier...
     
  15. rosco

    rosco Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would caution peeps on the use of spent mushroom compost.

    I know in these parts some organo chlorides were used to control fungus gnats. Not sure what they use now to control them, but I'd check it out before use.
     
  16. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2010
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hi Alex.
    I recently started a humanure system after a recent Permaculture Design Course in Lorinna in Tasmania. As noted elsewhere I've discovered the feathers from an old pillow have made a great improvement on the 'poo collection system' I've been using- it's an outside drum with a ventilated lid-replaced with a conventional loo seat when in use- a drum without a base, sitting straight on the ground in a quiet part of the garden near the orchard it will eventually contribute to) that will stay where it is (urine goes elsewhere- into a mulch pile- carbon from the mulch + nitrogen from the urine+ time and microorganisms= compost) until the composting worms do the sanitizing trick -the 'cold composting' humanure experts are sure that a year after the last contribution to that drum really does eradicate the 'nasties'. No odour, no insects, no relocating prior to the work/microbial composting process. A discovery today was a mushroom actually growing amongst the feathers- which seems a very good sign to me that all is well amongst the feathers.

    Best wishes,
    Peter
     
  17. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm going to bump one of these composting toilet threads up because I just had an interesting experience. During the summer gnats can be a real problem in these things. I tried some sawdust in mine and got a million gnats. It was horrible. I switched back to plain dirt, rather dry dirt the gophers had kicked up, and no gnats when carefully covering everything with dirt :)
     
  18. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,925
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well that's a very permie use for gophers!
     
  19. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I read long ago we should always use the dirt gophers kick up because it has that fungi and bacteria in it we're always looking for. I can never spell it. I assume it's there when the dirt is moist and not so much after it's dried out, but it's easy to use either way, so I always check where they have burroughs and they kick it up often, I can get several buckets full.
     

Share This Page

-->