Companion plants that are suitable for the lower Mid North Coast of NSW.

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by RodT, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    That is a very kind offer Andrew :)
    Thank you :)
    I am thinking this may be what I need ... to find or create my new tribe, my chosen family.
    Choice, the sacred word.
    The time has come for me to choose what to make from what I have.
    Frightening & exciting at the same time.
    (I'm sure there's a Chinese symbol for that!) :) ;) :)

    And you have sheep.
    I love sheep :)
    Hm.
    What else do you have out there? :) :) :)
     
  2. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I'm feeling for you Helen and Kimbo. Truly.

    My kids are small, they are girls and already the oldest one has become detached from this place in small ways. I have decided not to push anything and trust that nature will do the right thing ;)

    I was just reading last night the last little bit of The Five Stages of Collapse and came across a very interesting section regarding family and especially the Grandmother...

    Here is a little section from the book

    There's more but you get the drift.

    Unfortunately, now that we have been convinced of the importance of things beyond our needs, we are willing to sacrifice that evolutionary advantage of the extended family and the grandmother in order to have more stuff! To me this is why society and culture is collapsing...
     
  3. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    Grahame how have you found that book ive been thinking about getting it , im not a big book reader , ive had a scratch around on his blog and there is some interesting reading there . Just worry it will drive me deeper into the black hole , on one review of his book someone mentioned the "Walking Worried" which just describes me perfectly . The two oldest of our three siblings are just random they bounce around without a care , cant even grow a tomato and grizzle how broke they are they have 8 children between them (more on the way ) I cant get through to them , there is hope with the youngest of course the others will lean on her.

    Andrew tell us about your place when are your busy times maybe you can get some working visitors , we should all cruise around and help each other , Helen and Kimbo got any big jobs you need help with , best guess Kimbo needs a massive underground tank built .
     
  4. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

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    good bloke!

    Terra
    that is a very nice thought mate;
    but the only help i need is from my children - because all that is missing from the design is them.

    i have been thinking more on Herself's issues - and i'm at the point of saying 'sell it'.....and become granny permaculture to us all....just travel round the country....staying with all the permites that have got to know her over the years,,,,,

    she is social enough - and rather than loosing one paradise - she'd gain dozens.

    not an option for me though - misanthropic hermits, don't even visit other misanthropic hermits.

    :)

    if the truth be known,,,i would be delighted to visit several people i've met here.
    and one day - i will.

    k
     
  5. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Terra, It's not the greatest book I've ever read but it is a long way from the worst. It is written in a sort of conversational tone but filled with very interesting little insights. I am happy I read it. Of particular interest to me were the insights into the Russian 'mafia' and the Roma (gypsies). I mentioned in an old thread the idea of starting the 'Sons of Permaculture' Motorcycle Club (SOPMC) or the Green Masons (or some such thing) and was struck by how these two groups use/used the type of structure I was thinking about. Cruising around helping each other out is exactly the sort of thing I see the SOPMC getting involved in...

    P.S. Mods, How come I can't do hyperlinks at the moment? Actually I'm having Liquorice Allsorts trying to get this thing to work today...
     
  6. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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  7. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    Good cause were comin to yours!
     
  8. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    I luv sheep 2! One of the shagaleciesters has excellent barbers pole resistance/ i just worm monitered the 2012 ram group!
    Poultry! they are a bit out of controll------ next cool evening its a pluckfest!
    Mel Ollie &1 in the oven!
    Cows
    Shady trees! Need more in this weather.
     
  9. RodT

    RodT Junior Member

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    My apologies. I didn't realise that this would would be a subject that causes you pain.
    I have only been involved in this forum for a few weeks but in that time I have read quite a few of your posts and think I may have a reasonable handle on the type of person you are.
    Anyone who so obviously cares for animals as deeply as you do is definately a candidate for a lot of good karma. (not sure if you believe in the whole karma thing)
    I think that the universe will conspire to deliver all that you are looking for to you.
    That may sound a bit wishy-washy but so be it.
    On another note, the comment you made about sacred womens country will definately cause my wifes ears to prick when I mention it to her.
    Lee has Koori heritage and identifies very strongly with all things Koori.
    If we do come and take a look at your property and Lee feels a connection it may be enough for her to see past the dirt roads and the isolation.
     
  10. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    That's OK :) No apology needed :) Life is what it is & how people manage community & connection & co-operation & frith & life stages is all relevant to permaculture I reckon :)
    Simply amazing about your wife being Koori :) It's funny - I was thinking about you & the place & the whole thing yesterday & I just knew everything was as it should be & that it will be alright. I don't know what that means in literal terms, but I didn't have to question it further, it just was :)
    It's not terribly isolated up here. In fact, there is a very nice little community of long term residents & they are a very groovy bunch. If you don't want them in your pocket nor want to be in theirs that's OK. If you do - well there's a shed on one guys place where they have the best jams you have ever been too I swear - & it's all cool. They're not in your space, you're not in theirs & eveyone is groovy in a neutral space :) If you want more you can establish it with them, but they're not the kind of people you can move in one week & be best mates with the next. Friendly & helpful yes - invasive or presumptive - no. I tend to be a bit of a loner, & like kimbo what I really want is my kids, & the best neighbours on the planet aren't them :(
    It's a unique place in that you are isolated in one sense - check it out on google maps & you'll see what I mean (it's Maddrake Chase, not the spelling on the add) but there are also enough people around the joint that if you want to be part of things you can be. You can't see or hear anyone from here but if there was a real emergency there is someone close enough to get help. Or if you're feeling the need for a beer & a chat there's a few volunteers for that too :) But no-one will ever drop in unannounced or uninvited. Just isn't done. And I like it like that :)
     
  11. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    I forgot to mention the water.
    When you're on google maps have a look at where the water comes from :) :) :)
    There are no animals or agriculture above me (unless you count Alfs grapefruit orchard that he put in back in the 80's sure he was going to make some coin :) :) :) ) There's just my 3 very groovy neighbours & none of them use chemicals or have any animals other than a dog.
    The water is crystal clear & absolutely pure.
    I have a (very shallow) bore beside the creek here & the water is filtered through the rock. It is Bliss! :)
     
  12. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    Absolutely awesome about he barbers pole resistance! Way to go! :)
    Chooks! Mine have gotten into the garden one too many times lately & I'm pretty cranky :s
    I have read that next line several times & I think I just de-coded it? Yes? Congratulations would be in order if I'm correct? :)
    My cows are ready to lie down by 10 a.m & don't get up until at least 4.00 pm.
    Plenty of lovely water to drink & shady trees to lie under but Lou especially would like some to stand in. The rain gods need to get their act together & fill the creek for her :)
    I originally posted this over an hour ago ... hmm ... the aether net gremlins must be out today.
     
  13. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    Given the further responses/discussion I guess I'll just post here :)

    Grahame - thanks for thinking of me :) And thanks for posting the quote from the book :) I'm not sure I agree menopause is a reproductive strategy - I reckon an accidental side effect of longer life spans is more likely. However there is absolutely no denying what an awesome bonus grandparents are to all families & communities, & I agree everyone is the richer for having them around, no matter how we came by them :)

    And now the rave:

    Unfortunately, now that we have been convinced of the importance of things beyond our needs, we are willing to sacrifice that evolutionary advantage of the extended family and the grandmother in order to have more stuff! To me this is why society and culture is collapsing...

    Oh yeah ... this ... THIS. Being convinced of the importance of things beyond our needs. Being taught to want, where once we wanted for nothing. We haven't just sacrificed grandmothers & extended family for more stuff - we have sacrificed EVERYTHING. Every. fu@king. thing. The planet! Life itself! We are gluttons & wantons of the most obscene nature who will stop at nothing short of annihilation in our quest for satiation of our meaningless desires.
    Somewhere, somehow, we fell into an alternate reality & morphed into a race of caricatures. Without stopping to blink we crucified the tried/familiar/learned/traditional knowing, & appointed a singular god in its place. In a riotous fossil fuel binge we raised up Conspicuous Consumption as the new, incontestable god. We willingly took on the shackles required to earn the dollars needed to worship the new god, & we somehow missed the fact that the stuff we consumed only wetted our appetite for more stuff, which caused us to need more dollars, to buy more stuff. The resulting choas drowned out our inner voice, our inherent knowing, & without our kin & our community to keep us grounded & reflect our image back to us we began to believe we needed no religion, no family, no culture, no frith, no connection no love & no belonging. We thought we needed nothing but stuff. We have abandoned our land, our homes, our families, our friends & our culture for stuff. Huh? And now we must continue to consume stuff to numb the pain of the insatiable, cavernous hole in our lonely disconnected hearts, a hole that was once filled with purpose & belonging & love & hard work & just rewards.
    When I go to the big town I see: Nuclear families squeezed into tiny boxes, one on top of the other, both parents working 6 days a week for the man, tiny babies shoved into long-day-care facilities, their basic needs catered to by people who have never heard of permaculture, let alone frith! Grandparents jammed into nursing homes the very day they needed one too many errands run or letters read by descendants with younger legs & eyes. Sadly, we have all become a stolen generation, stolen away from the lives of connection & accountability we were destined to lead & sold into slavery for the benefit of the few. The terrible result is that many parents have no idea about caring for babies or raising kids. I agree that many children would benefit greatly from being raised by their grandparents. The responsibility of shaping a young mind needs a worn-in person, a person with all the rough edges rubbed off & a bit of sense knocked into them :) Patience & stillness take time to reveal themselves, & experience & knowing can't be learned from books, not even from the almighty internet :) A lot of life is learned only by living it. And people need families & communities to make that learning real - to give it context & meaning.
    It makes sense for parents to put their best physical years into work - not working for the man, but working for themselves - building, maintaining & improving the physical structures of their/childrens/families/communities lives. Without a grandparent present a parent has to stay at home to devote these years to their children, or choose to send them to the care of persons unrelated by blood or commitment or belief. Children will survive almost anything, but they do not thrive. The consequences of less than ideal parenting slid down the generations & many things of irreplaceable value are lost. In fact, everything is lost. We are a race of zombies, wandering in the darkness, returning again & again to the things that caused our pain in our blind efforts to relieve it. Poor humans. Such clever little monkeys with our opposing thumbs & our tongues that are free enough to form speech. Clever little humans who figured out how to refer to the future with speech, but who in the process of figuring out how to make that future pay, forgot the learning of the past, & certainly forgot to live in the now.
     
  14. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    And with that post Helen (in this exact thread), you have completed the permaculture journey - for me anyway.

    When I first heard about permaculture I could grasp the concept of companion planting. I may have been exposed to much more information than that at first, but what I took away with me was probably something like tomatoes and basil. Each time I read a little more or talked a little more, or practiced a little more I began to understand more. the concept deepened. and so on...

    And then I came to the sorts of realisation you state so well above. I still believed we could do it, we could pull ourselves out of this shit before it was too late. For so long I believed, and on a purely spiritual level I still do. And I say this now with very little despondency, I think our goose is cooked. At least it is for us who are living through this madness.

    But the thing that hurts so much is that we have the tools, we have the knowledge, and yet... nothing. And I am unlikely to live to see the sort of society I would so love to experience. I guess I should just stop absorbing myself in this permaculture stuff, stop torturing myself with this kind of fairytale and just get on with accepting the way things are. But once a you read Cinderella its hard to unread Prince Charming.

    I'll still work at things and do my best to make it better for the kids and for the people yet to come. I have no choice because anything else is unacceptable...
     
  15. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    I honestly can't think of what to say about this so I'm just gunna smile :)
    :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
     
  16. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    I pretty much agree with that treatise Helen. :) But I think we can over romanticise the pre-consumption worship village raising a child stuff. It depends on how far back we want to consider going in pre-industrial terms to a time and place akin to that you describe. I've spent a lot of time in 'developing' countries around people who still live very traditional village lives and it isn't all pretty. In fact there is a lot there not to like. I've seen a lot of abuse of women and children. A lot of children neglected and exploited. A lot of worn down and worn out women. All of the same disconnections and dysfunctions happen in these communities- it is just motivated by simpler wants but comes from the same base human frailties. And I am not referencing people living in true poverty although where that exists it compounds such things.

    I'm convinced that we worship all the wrong stuff and fill lives with inane, vacuous crap that money buys. But I'm not convinced that past history, pre-industrial times shows a better system of parenting. I think it was largely the same but with less extraneous distractions and less options. In fact I think it could have been worse in some regards. But given that a lot of what surrounds us is crap, it is natural to think that some time in our pre-modern history things must have been much better. I think the money and STUFF has just taken the crap to a new level.

    Of course personally I can only reference my own memory of what I have experienced and that only goes back to my grandparents and also what they say about their own parents and extended families. I don't find much in that to support a theory that raising children was a whole lot better back then. In fact I have much better relationships with my own kids and see better relationships amongst their peers with their parents than I have witnessed going back. Although perhaps we had a family on both sides who weren't the norm? :/
     
  17. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Oh yeah… Once you get fired up Helen you are magnificent.

    Grahame I feel that we need to think like the heroes from a Matthew Reilly book (worth a read if you like a good rollicking impossible adventure). There appears to be no way out and all will end badly, but then, a bit like McGyver, the dots all join together and the solution appears and we are saved with moments to spare. That's what I'm working towards anyway.

    For me it was the mandala garden rather than companion planting. Now I can't open a magazine without being offended by the stuff 'they' try to convince me I need. I feel unclean when I go to a shopping centre. I want to scream at the TV, particularly when there are politicians on, and I feel sorry that my father will never understand why spending a weekend spraying roundup on couch grass or baygon on spiders is not my idea of a day well spent. Now I dream of getting rid of everything to find out how little I actually need, and seeing if I can build a house, a life with my own bare hands.
     
  18. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    The thing is I don't think there may have ever been a time when people didn't want. We haven't been taught to want. Want has always existed or we would never have gotten past stone tools or whatever. Now we just want a lot of stuff that we don't actually need. But where do we draw the line if we could go back?
     
  19. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    Jeez Louise! I didn't mean to bum you out! Sorry about that : /
    Just quietly I also believe we're history - because of climate change, which I believe is much worse than anyone is saying out loud, & because of David Holmgren's latest prediction that we're in for a protracted winding down rather than a sudden cessation of fossil fuel production. That was our only hope (& it was a very slim one in the first place) of getting out of this without torching the joint. Still, it will be a very long time until the planet is uninhabitable by humans, & during that time things will get very interesting for those who don't have access to alternative means of producing food & shelter. Working to ensure your children & grandchildren can eat is no small task & is certainly a worthy one
    I have always felt rather self conscious on this forum because I'm not very interested in discussing the nuts & bolts, the physical elements of permaculture. As fascinating as it is (& I'm truly 100% sold on it), that aspect is nothing compared to the human element in my opinion. Without co-operation, community & connection we have nothing. All the swales & key lines & mulch & companion planting & alternative energy & solar passive come to nothing, if the people can't get their shit together & give it a permanent framework to function in.
    When I began my permacultire course I remember being fascinated as I realised the principles applied to human relationships as well, & that any system that had more imputs than it produced was not sustainable. At that time I was specifically thinking of my intimate relationship & children. All of the enormous amount of energy sustaining these relationships was coming from me & going to them, & nothing was coming back in return. I saw then that there truly was only one outcome in that situation, & it was inevitable. You can expand that out from couples & families ti communities & villages & towns & cities. The laws are universal & all the valiant efforts under the sun come to nothing if the system is not a closed one - if energy is going out, with nothing coming in.
    Being stubborn, I persisted on my chosen journey, because this is the only life that calls me, that feels logical to me, that I understand. I have no choice. I had hoped that I was setting up an arc for my children & their children to provide for their comfort when the shtf. But time is beating me. I needed the collapse to happen 5 years ago, so my kids would come home & give me a hand. Arthritis & personal declining energy levels are going to rob me of the ability to keep going it alone. But that many not be the case for you :) You are younger than me & time may be your friend. All the kids will come home eventually. When there are no shops, you will be surprised how fast they'll come home :)
    Don't get down. The last days could be fun :) I for one think living Mad Max would be awesome :) OK Mad Max if I could have a garden & a cow in the compound :) I really do like to eat :)
     
  20. helenlee

    helenlee Junior Member

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    You're right :) I do lean heavily on the "noble savage" version of history, partly because I have a very vivid imagination, & partly because I spend too much time on this forum already & I'm not going to take more time to research/write historically & culturally accurate raves :) I'm an artist & I like to think my contribution is to illustrate the topic & inspire others to dream, rather than to nail the details. You, being a biologist, are in a good position to present a more refined & accurate viewpoint :) Teamwork :)
    There are no easy answers & there never have been. There are only alternatives, & none of them are perfect. When you get the bumps ironed out of one set of problems they just migrate to the other side. Of everything. Women & children continue to suffer. Life is hard. Every benefit has an opposite cost. Nothing, but nothing in life comes free. While I extoll the benefits of family & community I know there are probably just as many women tonight dreaming of getting away from that very thing :) I reckon all we can do is throw ideas into the ring & sit around & chew the fat about them. I apologise if mine get a bit too colourful & crazy:) I trust that most of the people here - well the ones who are used to me anyway - just ratchet it down a few notches & smile :)
     

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