Climate change confusion

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by annette, May 23, 2011.

  1. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    I'm so irritated.

    Most people oppose a carbon tax. So somehow this fact has been translated into most people don't believe climate change is being caused by human activity and therefore don't support a carbon tax.

    The report today reiterates that something needs to be done to arrest the damage. Interestingly, no price on carbon. That's for economists. hhmmmm..

    How about most people believe that human activity is changing the climate but can't see how a carbon tax that compensates everyone is going to do anything. That's why they oppose it.

    Spell it out you politicians. Tell everyone exactly how it's going to work. The only one who's made any attempt at explaining it is Christine Milne of the Greens.

    Stop treating people like imbeciles. Tell em straight, tell em true and let's get on with doing something constructive.

    Sorry end of rant.:rofl:
     
  2. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    Hi, Im alittle confused.
    Are you recommending carbon tax as a good thing?
    Sorry I dont agree with you on that point.

    From the people I've spoken with about climate change, most realise that human activity has had a big effect of the climate, more the industrial wastes than individual household pollutions.

    Around here where there were not that many trees when Europeans arrived the winters were bitter.
    Now that the pine forests are being harvested out, people are concerned that the winters will go back to being nasty again, so funnily enough this overall situation can actually cut both ways.

    Unfortunately, scientists and lobbyist both think they know everything and push their agenda with what appears to be little regard for other/contrary opinions or hypothesis.

    This leaves us common folk with a growing sense of contempt for the powers that are supposed to be in control of the situation and who are supposed to be trustworthy to do what is in the best interests of us all. hahaha, and who have given us the such wonderful chemical disasters that were supposed to be the savior of the then economy, that will be Our legacy to Our grandchildren and theirs.

    Another Tax in the hands of the imbeciles will just become another gravy train for those clever enough and too bloody lazy to get off their arses and get their own hands dirty to be effective.

    What can you do to correct this situation yourself?
    First of all I think it is important to realise that not all climate change can be assigned to human errors.
    Nature has her own agenda that we know very little about.

    Secondly, when you rant and rave it turns people off like a blown fuse, they are already dealing with a great deal of stress and you adding more to it leaves them overwhelmed.
    You have to be creative in how you get your message across.
    A comment here and there at the right time would probably do more to re-empower people than a darn good lecturing.
    Fit your message to the individual you are talking to, what would help them from their point of view that also ties in with what would help us all?

    What are you doing?
     
  3. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Hi mischief

    No I wasn't recommending a carbon tax. I will put what I was trying to say in other words.

    The message being put across was that because the science (in the latest report) proves that climate change is caused by human activity, that we need a carbon tax. I didn't say I agreed with it, what I was saying is that the logic does not necessarily mean that because there is climate change we need a tax. The pollies are trying to lump the two issues together. Trying to lead everyone to think it is the only way to combat climate change. The spin doctors are working overtime.

    I agree with you on not trusting politicians with another tax. In fact in my rant and rave (which is invited as part of this forum) I directed my vitriole to the politicians that treat us like imbeciles. You're right. You can bet some people will make a lot of money out of this carbon tax.

    I don't have the answer to fixing climate change and my message was not directed at any individual. I do what I can to limit my carbon footprint. What I don't like is politicians trying to make this issue "our" problem, meaning the man and woman on the street. Then they justify this by making a tax to pay for it. I would like the polluters to pay and let it come out of their profits. But I don't know how appropriate that is. I'm not an economist.
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    it has all been said before you can't fix a furphy and i've never seen where throwing money at something (even forcably) ever works, the greatest damage we smart human's have done is to decimate the habitat and continue to do so. but it is way to late now the worshippers of this carbon change bullsh just have to sit back now and gloat as we the majority who don'tworship it, are going to cop it in the neck already our poor are heading to a new low level of desperation never before seen in ausralia, when thee especially isn't a visible tangable cause.

    these worshippes don't need to answer un-answered question (not going to ask them again, waste of time and space just like the science is).

    compensation packages ae only sweeteners for in the beginning over time they are taken away look at the sweeteners they gave with the GSt all gone now.

    justgoingto be another tax and another control, promoted of very recent times by some well paid individual with obvious vested interests in renewable energy (the most expensive power source).

    any lets just be led like sheep to poverty to cut 1.2% of a gand total of 20% supposedly causing naural climate changes, we are the flea on the elephants back.

    len
     
  5. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    OOoopps, sorry.
    Of course you're allowed to rant and rave.

    I did think you were telling us to get hold of the pollies and encourage them in their stupidity.
     
  6. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    It is not a tax it is the beginning of a Carbon Trading Scheme.
    This will put a price on carbon, and hopefully therefore, use the market system to change what industry and capitalism is doing to the planet.
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    still all a tax, no difference, will push up the cost of living, charity organsations already saying how they are getting more and more people can't pay power bills. the whole thing is a furphy some yuppies with no real aim in life worship areal demon, with a total disregard for the poorer people. how can one fix something that is not there. like i say this is probably all futile as it is all said and done, we just have to roll over and cop it in the neck.

    len
     
  8. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    I think gardenlen you need to take the political argy bargy and "We'll all be rooned," press releases from power companies with a grain of salt
     
  9. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yep just like with this carbon climate change debacle all in the minds of certain scientists who have a small group of supporters who in teh end will suffe all for nought. there is no tangable proof for it just pure supposition, and i did not mention power companies or gov's i mentioned charitable organisations and poorer people not being able to pay for power now, list in their food as well, none of which is going to get cheaper, while we throw money at somethng invisible. i take what pollies say with the same grain of salt as those scientists. like i say the worshippers and believers have won, we all now just got to wear it. minority overpowering majority without conscience.

    len
     
  10. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

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    Where are these huge masses of lethal hot air coming from? NOAA satellites have tracked the origins of these unprecedented high-pressure systems to gigantic congregations of Tea Party faithful screaming in unison, like the bellows of an old-fashioned furnace, that global warming is a Conspiracy. What a relief. Our Savior has blamed Us, the Faithful, for just being too Loud and Obnoxious and NOT the ridiculous, Satanic Hoax of man-made global warming for this evil destruction. Maybe if we just Shut Up...

    Climate scientists have long predicted our jet stream would move north in a warming scenario, but they did not take into account the sheer volume of hot air the Tea Party was capable of, creating giant high-pressure cells that block the jet stream, causing it to dip south instead, driving arctic cold into the Holy Lands of Hotness and Humidity, creating giant circulating Clashes of the Titans between Cold Dryness and Hot Wetness, something the Faithful just did not expect. My but the Lord moves in Mysterious Ways.

    Of course there is no evidence these hot air masses are caused by (chuckle) increased carbon dioxide.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...rted-jet-stream-letting-icy-blast-Arctic.html
    https://www.achangeinthewind.com/2008/04/global-warmin-1.html
    https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/242280...et-stream-moving-north-weather-shifts-likely/
    https://globalwarming.gen.in/global-warming-effects/on-the-winds-of-change-jetstream-wind/

    excerpted
    https://www.opednews.com/articles/Hot-Air-Blocks-Jet-Stream-by-Dante-DeNavarre-110526-967.html
     
  11. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Rubbish Len but I haven't the energy to argue with you.
    Stop listening to mindless shock jocks on the radio
     
  12. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

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    No Fisticuffs

    2011 has already become the deadliest year for tornado outbreaks in the United States since 1953 with more than 500 people killed. Extreme weather has made headlines across the world as well, with megafloods occurring in Colombia, Vietnam, Pakistan and Australia, even as the Amazon just faced its second hundred-year drought in the past five years. News audiences are seeing the warning "severe weather" increasingly flash across TV screens, but little connection has been made to the role of humans have played in driving climate change. We speak with environmentalist Bill McKibben, founder of the grassroots climate campaign, 350.org. "We are making the world a more violent and dynamic place," McKibben says. "That is what global warming is about."
    https://www.commondreams.org/video/2011/05/26-0
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yes there has been lots of events, volcano's, earthquakes as well' but it has all happened before it is nothing new, brisbane has had bigger floods, 1974 for a start, they have a 100 year flood scale up here, thatmeans about every 100 years we should pepare for a big flood, and the last flood in brisbane was acually caused by mismanagement of dam levels by egg headed individuals who no doubt believe carbon climate change causes all of the above. hogwash. as for teh amazon if they hadn't decimated and contine to do so the amazon hungle there would be no drought and tha goesfor lotsof places, your carbon tax inustry won't stop the results of habitat destruction.

    as for the last part of the above who and whatever you want to believe, it's all supposition. fully expect the worshippesto start blaming volcanos and earthquakes on climate change hey one in all in hey?

    len
     
  14. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Len you are right. They may compensate now, but just wait a few years..............

    Having worked in government for nearly 20 years, I know their tricks. They sell things with lines like, "it is just a cup of coffee a week". Well you know you add up 20 or so cups of coffee and it gets expensive. The cost of living in Queensland, in regards to water, electricity, transport, petrol and everything else is making it difficult for those on fixed income. A carbon tax with just add to the burden.

    Previously our taxes subsidised services. No more. Now it is user pays and a bit more and still pay more tax. I don't know where it will end. But the cumulative effect of the rising cost of essential services is biting and another tax is scary indeed. People are hurting.

    I care so much about protecting our environment but have no faith in those in power to do the right thing. It's all politics. Smoke and mirrors. All designed to get elected. It's crap.

    Now the tea party and their hot air is just another worry. I can see the far right getting traction here as well. (Your post gave me the laugh of the day Ojo!) I have no answers, just an uncomfortable feeling that greed will prevail and that a grassroots individual way of dealing with things may be the way to go. How can you fight these huge corporations that have all the money and power? Very difficult.

    But who knows, something may happen to change to whole way of thinking. Personally, I try to just carry on the best I can, but sometimes I just get so cranky about it all.
     
  15. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Big Polluters ARE the cause of Climate Change... BUT they only produce what we consume... stop the consumption - stop the need for the pollution...

    How do you stop the consumption...?

    Make it dearer to buy coal and other fossil fuels than it is to buy renewables...

    How do you make it dearer to buy fossil fuels...?

    Add a price to fossil fuels that covers the damage the Co2 is doing... call it a Carbon Price...

    What will this do...?

    This will have a 2 fold effect...

    Firstly, People will stop using Fossil fuels and move to renewables to get cheaper power...

    Secondly, the money generated by the carbon price will do 2 things... It will go to low income earners, pensioners etc, to cover the out of pocket caused by the carbon price... It (along with current coal subsidies) will go towards building clean energy facilities using - Natural gas (worst option) and also Wind, Solar, Wave, Geothermal and other power generation sources...

    Over time the Carbon price will become self redundant as we move to cleaner technologies...

    Makes sense to me... I'm looking forward to it...
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    sounds a bit like a fairy tale i'm afraid, eveything fits ever so neatly and sweetly, but alas that is not going to be so, maybe not even you will be able to afford the new power, and as do compensation packages they are sweeteners to make the deal look ever so sugar pie, but the compensations dissappear over time they always have done and will contine to do so because in this once upon a time tale of carbon climate change, pandora's box, it simply doesn't make sense to take with one hand and give with another.

    len
     
  17. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Tasmania's energy is already Hydro & Wind... The amount we pay for the CP is already reduced, as will others when they move to those options.

    Taking with one hand and giving with the other happens all the time... we pay tax/licenses/registrations and receive medical, roads, education etc,

    The GST works rather a lot like a Carbon Price... 10% GST is added on pretty much everything other than food... Pensioners recieve a GST component in their pay to cover their out of pocket as a result of it...

    A $500 pension would receive something like 30 or 40 dollars as a GST component which works out about right considering food does not have GST on it... otherwise everything a pensioner spends their income on has the GST paid by the government.
     
  18. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Wow, some surprising opinions... I would like to point out to anyone who thinks there is no global warming to sit their ass down on a road in the outback, or the SW US and stare all day at the energy heat waves radiating up from the road and burn your damn ass till you realize that we humans made world wide heat traps.
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    dunno eric,

    so your proposal is we all move to tasmania??

    compare oranges with orages.

    you seem to have an opinion that somehow tasmania will be insulated from the worst impacts of this carbon tax system? maybe if nothig is imported from the mainland, but i don't realy think tassie is that self sufficient.

    i think you'll find any GSTcomp' given to pensioners way back when has been swallowed up anything we buy from the super market that includes GST we pay at the checkout. yes taking with one hand and giving little tit bits back is how gov' works no honesty in that system as people think we keep getting it back when it is ot the case. now it would be seen as real if pensioners paid no GST.

    we might have made heat traps i sue teh term we advisedly as it was not my plan to build supre metropolises. but those heat wave things you talk of that is not climate change global warming i remember seeing those back in the 50's 60's long before this furphy global warming climate change thing came along. this is the want of the worshipper believers of it they use natural events to boost their story. the major imact humans has had is almost total decimation of habitat. so a good fix for you global warming part of climate change rip up all highways. not good to make things fit you comfort zone.

    len
     
  20. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    No, Len, Tasmania is not immune from the cost of a Carbon Price... but we are fortunate to be in a position where our direct energy costs will save us around $300 per year on a Carbon price of $25 - $30/tonne (as quoted in local papers)...

    Of course we will pay a slightly higher price on things we buy. Unfortunately that will happen for some time... until the carbon price is naturally redundant...

    But from a direct energy expense perspective it almost halves the expected cost per household increase as a result of the carbon price...

    Tony Abbott via his Direct Action Plan (which I initially thought was a good plan) wants to take around $750 per year per tax payer to fund it... this is not money generated to cover the plan, its money taken from an already tight budget...

    https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    https://www.csiro.au/resources/pfbg.html

    https://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/

    These are fairly high ranking agencies that negate the furphy theory...
     

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