Cats as compost activators.

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by ho-hum, Jun 14, 2006.

  1. Ramon

    Ramon Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    New permi bike sticker:


    Don't like the way I ride ?
    Go throw yourself on the compost!

    Don't forget your cat.
     
  2. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How about:

    When you crush me under your SUV, toss me on the compost heap!

    :oops: :lol: :lol:
     
  3. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  4. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He got that from me. My idea was to offer body disposal services to the yakuza. He actually ran the composting idea past some of his students - good thing they already knew he was crazy. :lol:

    At any rate, Geoff composted one of Nadia's neighbour's cats (it was already dead when he got his hands on it) - and it melted away quite nicely.
     
  5. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The April-June issue of ReNew magazine has an article on 'eco-innovation' in the funeral industry.

    I've heard of a woman near here on the sunny coast who has coffins that break down when buried - you can buy them beforehand and decorate them!

    Sonya.
     
  6. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here in Sydney, we've recently had yet another child attacked and savagely mauled by a dog.

    I have a workmate who hates cats, but is proud of the American Pit Bull Terriers which he keeps in small high-security barred cage. When I met them, I thought they were lovely animals, but their pain and anguish was palpable. I wish they could be humanely put down, because the poor, demented bastards have no where to go outside their miserable cage.

    https://vein.library.usyd.edu.au/links/E ... onner.html
    https://www.workingdogs.com/doc0084.htm
     
  7. GrowWhat

    GrowWhat New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Cats

    I am aghast at the comments on what to do with cats. I have had many dogs as a wonderful pet. I have now two cats, they were members of the family, I have recently remarried into.

    Of the two one is a 'Hunter' So we do everything we possibly can to control this behaviour. Our other cat would not know what to do if she did catch something, so all she catches is the occasional Bogong Moth.

    In our back yard we have a myriad of birdlife, they are all aware of the 'Hunter' so they all treat her accordingly. A lot of our smaller birds have dissappeared, not due to the cats, more the ever encroaching urban sprawl.

    With this the encroachment of the irresponsible cat owners, these are the ones that let any pets roam. Dogs and cats, we have a major problem in the Dandenong ranges with the ferals. But lets be fair, these have originated from being someones pet gone wild.

    I would not even attempt harm on defenceless animals, when the time comes around and the cats have done their time here. They will be buried in the backyard, and there will be a tree or plant of some description to make use of them as they break down again into the soil.

    I personally hate confined spaces , so when my time comes and I have been cremated I will have my ashes scattered around the garden and if ' The Rules " dissallow I shall be scattered in the Wilderness, if we have any left.

    How many birds have been displaced with the invasion of non indigeonous wildlife, they came over with while the continent was still in the birthing process. I am an avid conservationist, but that is not to the point whereby weeds are taking over and detroying so much of the natural habitats of many species.

    Our native Peoples here in Australia have been using fire for 40Million years, so the idea of 'Pristine is a furfy in a way. I was involved in reclamation and replanting of local and indigeonus species for more than a decade in local Government.

    There were numerous occasions when a 'Cool' burn would have made the world of difference in Eradication efforts, and enhanced the 'Re-Vegitation' of the local ground flora species. But we had to many intererances from, wishy washy, pretend to be "pseudo" conservationists that thought they were helping undoing all the hard work in controling invasive and introduced weeds.

    I had a half acre in the Yarra valley, on which I built a small mud brick cottage. I investigated and researched to identify and make a comprehensive list of all the local species of flora and fauna. All building and ancilliary work was done with this in mind, I had many local species of fauna coming back within a twelve month period.

    The native 'Bushland' vegetation was a small area between myself and 'Farmland', I nutured this small patch of local vegetation and ground species of flora. I used no mechanical equipment in doing this, removing all the introduced 'Weed' species. I created an environment encouraging all the indigeonus species of fauna to come back even down to small native Green hood orchids.

    Only to have the area destroyed, during the lead up to the fire season. A contractor with a tractor mounted slasher, slashed through the area destrying effectively two years of bringing back the indigeonous patch.
     
  8. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Growwhat

    Interesting Post thanks......Dont fret we arnt all pussy murderers.

    You sound Like You Know a bit about your area etc..And I hope you continue to be a poster on this web site..

    Just as an after thought the posts originator has removed himself from this board over something else,and isnt representitive of us all


    Tezza
     
  9. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Tezza, is Floot really gone? Or is he lurking? I think he is one of the people who reads without showing himself! hahahahah, just kidding. I wish him well, wherever he is. Perhaps hes under that tree with the blonde and the champagne?

    Grow, the originator of this thread had a predisposition to try and push lots of peoples buttons, and was an antagonistic trouble maker (who often made very good and valid contributions) who has since gone on to I-know-not-where-no-do-I-care. I don't think most people here share his hatred of cats. I certainly don't, I like mine!
     
  10. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day GrowWhat, welcome to the PRI forum :)

    I empathise with your loss concerning the indigenous (locally native) "Bushland" reserve that you helped create. Maybe next time in an effort to reduce the risk of this happening again you could 'signpost' the area and/or discuss all fire prevention strategies with nieghbours/other stakeholders?

    Concerning your statement, "...we do everything we possibly can to control this behaviour". I don't wish to offend you and I apologise if I do, but have you considered building a cat enclosure or even keeping your cat inside? Regardless of how "aware" your local native fauna is concerning your cat the fact remains that your cat will continue to kill. The only way to ensure that this does not happen is to exclude the latter from the former. Five years ago I built an outside enclosure for my sister-in-law's cat at very little cost using recycled materials and a couple of spare week-ends. Now both the cat and the local wildlife (birds, reptiles, small marsupials, etc.) are all much happier. The cat feels superior on its custon built 'perch' and the visiting wildlife feel safer and have proven this by increasing in number.

    Cheerio,

    Mark.
     
  11. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
  12. Scott A. Meister

    Scott A. Meister Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Back from the dead...

    Yes...I'm back,

    Douglas said,

    Just to clarify...I didn't get that from Douglas...he mentioned the Yakuza thing only after we had our little discussion on the balcony (when Douglas wasn't present)....anyway...

    I did run the idea past many of my "Buddhist" students, who I thought would get it...(I put Buddhist in quotes, because although people may have Buddhist ceremonies, most of the Japanese people I've met are religious in only ceremonial terms...they're really agnostic...i.e.-when there's a ground breaking ceremony for new construction, they're Shinto, Christian when there's a wedding, and Buddhist when there's a funeral...religion is often decided by occasion)

    Anywaaaaaaaaay...indoctrination runs deep...just as deep as superstition...and none of my students bought the idea of a composting funeral....even if it meant that their life force would be changed into that of a tree that would be cared for by their family. They simply demanded that bodies MUST be cremated. I guess they'd rather contribute to global warming with their ashes than work with the natural cycles. Even the idea of rotting slowly back to soil in a casket disturbed them.

    However, it seems that there aren't any laws stopping something like a "green" composting funeral business from starting up in the states.

    I found this on Groovy Green...
     
  13. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Douglas,

    It is only very recently that someone here posted the first info I have seen on 'green' burials. What a remarkable concept [in your example] to finish up with 144 acres of wilderness. That has gotta be the way to go.

    I also believe that the sides of roads should be used in a similar fashion. We are fairly certain that roadsides have a longer lifespan than most cemetary plots these days.

    floot
     
  14. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Make mine a mango, thanks...
     
  15. Nibbler

    Nibbler Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    one for the cats

    Whoa Alex M you're my hero - excellent series of posts.
    I basically can't give a passing mention of cats on forums (except cat based ones!!!) without someone making a vicious post about how terrible cats are and what violent thing should be done to them. I've always thought 'when did this happen, I don't remember people hating cats when I was a kid'. I guess they may have thought it secretly - people will tend to go overboard on anonymous forums on subjects they wouldn't even mention in a face to face situation.
    I also wonder why it seems to these certain people that for any animal to be killed by a cat is an outrage whereas things like being killed (or maimed and left to die) by cars, common garden poisons, encroaching development, fire, humans with guns or other weapon (because the animals are harming our economic wellbeing, or just because it's 'fun'), or even by dogs is either acceptable, or just 'one of those things' and not a big deal. It seems weird, but I could give dozens of examples I've heard!
    I guess apart from the sorts of cat specific symbolism/psychological angle, there's also the simple issue of being able to blame an animal (any animal) for our environmental woes. It's a lot easier to demonise that animal and proceed to try and poison/shoot it into oblivion than to realise that there are a complex array of environmental pressures and we might have to change our way of life (shock horror) and/or actually think about things a bit more deeply!

     
  16. gg

    gg Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  17. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hooley Dooley, gg!! I remember that mouse plague. I think it's happened a few time before in Oz, even before the aeroplane and the motorcar. Imagine that! It shows how a fragile balance can suddenly tilt out of control.

    Thanks for the response, Nibbler. It's interesting how we need someone or something to project our fears and failings onto. The ancient Hebrews used to ritually put all their collective guilt and shame onto a goat, which they drove away from the secure zone of their camp out into the wilderness - the scape-goat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat

    All symbolic of our confused and difficult relationship with nature, I think.

    :(
     
  18. strud

    strud Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  19. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I understand what you are saying, Strud, and am not arguing with you. I've already acknowledged that feral cats are a problem in the Australian environment.

    What interests me is stuff like this, from the opening comments of one of your links (https://www.feralcat.com/sarah1.html):

    It is not true.

    This is true. Attempts at ruthless destruction will always fail, for reasons that a re-read of Charles Darwin's work will make clear. Briefly, though, do you know how Kangaroo shooters make sure there will always be more 'roos to shoot next time around? Think about it.

    Fortunately, the writer of that article goes on to acknowledge some of the emotive irrationality of the cat debate.

    The point I want to make is that whenever a species of any kind moves from its original habitat (whatever that is) to a new one, things change. It is widely accepted, for instance, that the Thylacine inhabited much of the Australian mainland before the first human invaders arrived. The second wave finished it off altogether.

    A more rational and informative site is here: https://www.environment.gov.au/biodivers ... ats/5.html

    I could go on for ever. Perhaps I'll take it up on a new thread. The point I want to make here is that there are reasons why cats are singled out for special hatred over, say feral dogs; they are complex and deeply rooted in the human psyche.

    Just now it's getting dark, I'm low on lamp oil, and my cat is demanding to be fed.

    For now, just be a little more loving to everyone and everything around you, and everything will be just fine.
     
  20. Nibbler

    Nibbler Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    its about finding the truth i guess

    It's not that I love cats or otherwise, it's the fact that people who hate them are twisting the truth. I would love for THOSE people to be 'realistic'.

    I am extremely concerned about the state of our environment and the decline of our native species, and have been involved in a lot of work trying to address these problems.

    I'm certainly aware of the stuff around on the internet about cats and wildlife. Re the links that you pointed out - did you actually read the last article you mentioned? I dont think I'd disagree with anything in that - it's a pretty well written one!

    A few years ago I accepted the view put forward that cats wreaked terrible environmental havoc on face value, but then one day I came across an article which critiqued much of the assertions made and the 'research' on this topic. When I actually looked into this a bit more closely I found out that in many cases the impact of cats WAS being exaggerated, AND it seemed pretty clear by the language used and the innacurate statements being made in many articles, that the reason people claimed cats cause major environmental damage was BECAUSE they hated cats. They didn't hate cats BECAUSE they were doing environmental damage. This made me pretty damned annoyed!!

    The thing that angers me most is not that it's about cats, but just the fact that some people are being selective with the truth and/or straight out lying. That this issue can also cause cruelty to innocent animals AND take resources / attention away from other things that could be done to really help threatened native species just makes it even worse.

    There's recently been a lot of publicity here in Tassie about the state of Macquarie Island, where rabbit population has gone nuts and they've apparently destoyed much of the island's native vegetation. Now apparently the 4 feral species on the island were cats, rabbits, mice and rats. Over 80% of the cats diet was known to be rabbits. SO they apparently thought a good idea would be to kill all the cats, but leave the rest. I don't think it takes a genius to work out what would happen next. Apart from the rabbits decimating vegetation, rats are now increasing in number and and preying on birds which use the island to breed. Now I don't claim to be an expert on that situation or why it occurred. However, if the decision was influenced by a conscious or unconscious presumption that "cat=bad for environment = kill!" then I am really worried about the future for our native plants and animals!

    I dont quite see how preferring to have rats on your property than a cat is good for wildife. Reminds me of my mum telling me of a guy (it depresses me to say i think he was a lecturer on environmental issues) at a workshop who was having a tirade about how bad cats were for the environment, and then went on to say that the number one environmental pest in Australia was mice !!!!! Seems a little ironic, but apparently he didnt realise this....

    Cats are opportunistic hunters, so if rats and mice are the most abundant food supply that's what the cat will eat most of. The irony is that many people who won't get a cat due to its impact on wildife will happily put down poisons! The consequences of this scenario for local wildlife are something I'm sure I don't have to explain on a permaculture forum.

    Re the rats, check out:
    https://wwf.org.au/ourwork/invasives/rats/

    (nice anti-rat propaganda photo there - sorry rats - at least a break from the pics of cats with birds in mouth)

    I'm certainly not saying that introduced species can't impact on native species, I'm just hoping that people can take an objective view and think critically. The human mind likes to see things in simple black and white terms, but nature is complex!

     

Share This Page

-->