Capitilism vs. the Climate

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by matto, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    OK, so our stating point is Equality then. Although I would like to extend that beyond all states, to All people. Would that be acceptable?

    So if we can start there. Perhaps we can move on to how we might go about making this equal for all people. What should we start with? Equal in which respects?
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    gotta start someplace grahame, the big picture later star in small bites my dream if i can use mark's words? includes all the worlds peoples starting with the down trodden and cast outs.

    equal as in the right to safe affordable locally grown food, a basic modest home, affordable services good health care and dental care make the rich greedy subsidise a good standard for the lowly, me i can hardly chew but i am on a 12 month maybe list for false teeth, that is an example before someone turns it into selfish, had an 86 year old friend carry prostrate issue on 8 year waiting list, a simple little op' the rich have daily but he took his to the grave, prostrate for all is something men live with 24/7 he had reduced quality of life until the day he died. in a caring society is that acceptable? education that suits all for all not indoctrinated brain wash stuff.

    all with same similar dress standard not one before the other, yuppie classes would need to dissapear, teh rich should pay for all, keep all employed, no taxes for teh poor until an equilibrium is met. is that too much? come outside the squares and comfort zones. look out for the rush of support grahame, would hate to see you get knocked over lol?

    and hey no good putting it all onto one it will take all.

    len

    len
     
  3. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    OK just to clarify this in my mind...

    You would like to start with good quality affordable food, shelter and health care (including dental)? You also suggest non-religious and non-scientific education. Does that mean reading, writing and arithmetic?

    So are we going to feed/house and care for Australians first, or should we be choosing the very poorest of the world to begin with? I would also like to add clean drinking water to the list. There are many countries where access to clean drinking water is extremely limited. Should we start there? I only ask because we can live for longer with out food than without water. I think this would also lead to much better health outcomes.

    So I wonder how we might go about convincing the wealthy elite, to hand over their money to help the people of the Zambia where 1/3 of the population (14 million) don't have access to clean water. I only choose Zambia because they are the poorest nation. There are lots more in a similar situation in other african countries. There are just over 1 Billion people on the african continent. I'm not sure how many of them have clean water, and good quality food. A lot of them don't have any shelter and apart from a witch doctor or two, I imagine a lot of them have never seen dentist. And that doesn't even begin to account for China and India - lots of poor people there. Billions of them.

    I don't know all the ins and outs, but we are a lightly populated country Len, but I'm still not sure how much change there will be for Australian dental health.

    How do you think we should proceed? I'm genuinely interested in answers and solutions to these issues.
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    your fogging grahame, you really don't seem to want change for teh poor at least, but yes if charity does not begin at home international charity si showman ship, ie.,. we are i think the 5th highest forced donators, big accolade but guess what the poor world wide are getting more destitute just like our poor. the wealthy have never contributed to our society fairly or honestly, i think it is Denmark maybe Norway something like a 90% tax burden but are people leaving in droves no, why? because when you get old and retire you get looked after, now if that country can do it why not ours. 23 million not that light for the arable soil we need, but we are top heavy with wealthy.

    anyway a dream circle is starting so until sense prevails i am out of here, and the good lurkers out there will remain lurkers, do you have political aspirations?

    there simply has to be change to how people are cared for. or it is of no use consuming bandwidth. oh! also making our poor suffer more and more will not help zambia or any other country.

    reading; writting and arithmatic needs to be basic we don't want to breed a new set of mumbo jumboer's.

    len
     
  5. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Totally agree
     
  6. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Fogging?

    I don't understand your response Len. Should we help those less fortunate than us or not? Why are you running away?

    All I have asked you for Len is your applicable recipe for creating equality in food, shelter and health. Do you think we can have that for all 7+ billion of us or not? I think one of the reasons the elderly don't get looked after in a lot of those african countries is because there are no really many of them alive to look after - they died long ago from poor water, food, shelter and health care. So I guess you aren't doing that badly after all.

    Who/what are the lurkers you speak of?

    What are the answers Len? How do we do it? How can we get the politicians to listen to us? How are we going to feed and house all the people in the future? What are we going to drink? How can we stop the greedy from being greedy?

    Because I am at a loss Len, I am sometimes in despair. Everywhere I turn I see insanity and 'wrong doing'. I say to people, hey that is insane, why are you doing that? and they stare at me blankly. I tell them of a better way and they just say, nah that's too hard. I say there are people worse off than you and they say, yeah but there are people better off than me! I take them down to the river and show them the dirty, lifeless water and they say claim innocence. It's not that bad, they say.

    I don't know what else to do Len, all I really want to do is make this world a better one. And all you can offer me is a sad story about your teeth and some reference to a mystical solution to emancipating the poor and down cast.

    So run away and hide from the world in your vast out-side-the-box wisdom Len. My time with you is done. I say you and people of your ilk are doing as much if not more damage to this world than any other group that exists. I'm done with this crap and I'm handing in my Moderators badge.

    You've made me angry Len and you've despoiled this forum with your grubby little harpy's screech. Go on - piss off, ya selfish prick.
     
  7. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    I have to agree with you Grahame...

    I've tried to stay out of this but, Len I do think its time you pissed off... you are acting more like a Troll than a permaculturalist... so whats the point of you being here...

    Do you live in a cave and boil your water over rock circle fire... if not then you DO support the education and advances that science has given us every time you get out of bed... wake up or leave... PLEASE!
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    i've answered that question grahame,

    it's all your and milf's(what a nasty thing to say to another when you have had no imput to date) anyhow if nothing else others can see.

    len
     
  9. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Len, are you of the opinion that science is good if it provides what you need but not good if it disproves what you believe in ?
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yes like people milf well people who can, if they provide good honest real help all would be fine, but they became god's unto themselves and we little people don't fit their theories.

    you know that as well as i.

    you say nasty things allowable by teh mod's because you fall into favour. maybe i too should give teacher and apple.

    len
     
  11. Xio

    Xio Junior Member

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    I for one enjoy Len's view of the world. It would be a pretty dreary forum without his input.
    Though some on this forum might not agree, I don't believe that permaculture is the new religion or is going to save the world.
    Why I do believe is that permaculture is a system that can work effectively for individuals, families & small community groups.
     
  12. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    If Len would get to specifics, I might agree with you. I don't like shutting out other points of view, but it's getting tedious.

    As far as permaculture goes, I'll agree with you on that wholeheartedly. However, if the human race does get saved by human intervention, it will be difficult to determine if Permaculture didn't have an affect. Chances are, any improvements made in an ecological manner will fit in with permacultural design. Even though there might be more people studying ecology over permaculture(which I can't say for sure), there are very striking similarities between the two. Which shouldn't be surprising since they both were born about the same time. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecology for reference].
     
  13. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Xio, I thought the world was made up of individuals, families and small community groups... of hundreds of different species...
     
  14. Xio

    Xio Junior Member

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  15. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    So, what is it you DO believe Xio?
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    why hs getting down to specifics got to be the bounty of a few? no others here with their one liners are getting to basics. i told you at least a decade ago permaculture on its own with only its believers will not be involved in any worthwhile change, with the change of the upper echelon to new turks around 10 years ago when all who did a pdc hung thier shackles out and became teachers chasing those handsome looking reward, money that is by having their own PDC's. the selling of permaculture killed the goose that may have laid a golden egg, sadly that was maybe only going to be a prophetic golden egg, but kill the bird they did, so emptiness with no future is now worshiped, and the condoning of those in favour calling other churlish nasty names.

    i have put out specifics but those who believe they are truly wise mix it up invert it and turn it inside out so they don't have to deal with and blame a negative result on me green politics.

    yes eric the world is so constructed as you so wisely stated, that is the issue hey, no standing together and permaculturists no different, you really have no idea how many negatives there are out there who won't enter into thoughts of saving humans just want to lead us over a cliff, so we all get to go down hey smile at me as you go. i tried as best i could to discussion on change going and got soundly head butted into oblivion let the staus quo remain.

    ego crueled waht xio pointed out could have been a useful tool, i saw them on tv starting around 40 years ago i watched and waited for the egg to hatch and it hatched into greed.

    honesty won't go down well here

    len
     
  17. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Honestly Len all you have laid out is you are worshipping the false god of Business as Usual regardless of the environmental consequences because you want to maintain your first world lifewstyle
    Correct me if Im wrong
     
  18. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Sun
    Great post Xio
    Do you have anything to say that might actually have factual credibility because I like to think this forum is for spreading knowledge not BS
     
  19. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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  20. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    I did note that they didn't post a link to the Q&A video so their readers could decide the truth for themselves.
     

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