Can we survive Climate Change

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by frosty, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Luisa, according to James Lovelock Antarctica will be one of the last place's of mankind.

    Tasmania or New Zealand would be my two picks, I personally would pick NZ as it would have less Australian's :D
     
  2. Luisa

    Luisa Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Depends on what parameters are triggered. If we get a runaway greenhouse effect it won't matter, Antarctica will boil with the rest of the planet.

    18 years ago when I first heard of the runaway greenhouse effect I thought it too improbable, now I'm not so sure. This species still shows few signs of learning. Some individuals change our lives but too many keep on, keeping on.
     
  3. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    I'm still more concerned by the run away truck (peakoil) than the run away stream roller (climate change) following it.

    I think Russia will play a big part in future conflicts as they have been busy re-building their military getting ready for the energy crunch, US/Israel plan to "maybe" attack Iran, Iran is now getting defence equipment from Russia, China will do as China does, nothing on the face of thing's and supply those who it sees as important with no regard to people or the environment. These three or four super state's will fight in one way or another over oil in the next few years and make a bloody mess of it.

    It's a bloody big mess on the way and it's all out of our hands and all we can do is sit by grow our vegi's and hope for the best, Once the fight's are over we can start to worry about climate change.
     
  4. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    I have just read all these great posts, but of course, the fact that we are on this forum means most of us here are serious about these problems. My own terror is when I see the icebergs melting, and, closer to home, when I contemplate the Queensland drought.

    We used to have a friend back in the UK who would never discuss or worry about serious matters. His personal belief and comfort was: "Somebody will do something about it" I believe this is the spoken and unspoken attitude of most people around us - not all of course, but such an attitude prevails. Among the people in power it is a slightly altered version: Somebody should do something about it, but I'm not willing to risk political/business repercussions by doing something myself"

    I'm pretty powerless myself - living on the basic pension in a housing commission house, but have managed to do a lot. I grow food, keep chickens, scavenge and recycle, save water by various means, use public transport, buy locally, do a bit of guerrilla gardening, and try to spread organic/permaculture/recycling ideas.

    There is hope though - the water shortage problem was helped here in SEQ by simple goodwill. People overwhelmingly supported water restrictions because they understood the situation and took the problem to heart. Perhaps attitudes will change - eventually.
     
  5. aslanded

    aslanded Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    I picked Tasmania, mainly because its closer, so easier access. I'm still stuck in Sydney though for the next few months. Obviously not real happy about that, I'm making some money, but I'd much rather be building self sufficiency. There is probably something constructive I could do in Sydney in terms of spreading the word or something but most people don't seem to want to know and I don't hold much hope for our cities in the short term anyway. The good thing about cities though is the public transport system. The big problem is Tas is theres basically none, well one bus a day but thats not too useful. I found I use a lot more energy out in the country in terms of transporting myself. The govt should be pumping massive amounts of resources into upgrading public transport. Every time I look at the petrol prices its seems 10c more.

    The trouble we have in Australia and the US is suburbia. If you go to any European city, they developed in times before oil so the farms come up to the edge of town, or are even in the towns, there are bike tracks between villages, canals that can transport large amounts of freight with only a horse, and high density in the towns/villages, not massive sprawls to traverse to get the food to the market. We wasted all the cheap energy in a stupid suburbia building binge with the expectation that life would continue like it is now but with even better technology, when clearly the oil supplies are finite and will run out in the next few decades. If I were to look at the world optimistically, and the sun is shining in on me this morning, I would say the best thing that could happen in the west is a slow steady increase in fuel prices, including electricity. It gives people time to adapt, and reduces consumption. At this point its still too cheap, but its made even my work mates petrol head mechanic son ride his bike to work. Its started to make people think and look for alternatives.

    While I'm ranting I may as well tell the story about when I was hitchhiking on Vancouver Island and got picked up by a guy who's wife had died of Leukemia. He said it took them ages to work out why she had leukemia as they had lived in the pristine west coast (Much like the west coast of Tassie - 7m of rain a year!) and been healthy all their lives, yet there were a few people in the region who had developed the cancer. After a lot of research they determined that his wife and the other victims had been outside during a rain shower which occurred about a week after the US dropped the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The westerly wind had blown radioactive rainclouds across to them, and they must have got a massive dose. My point is that I dont think there will be many places unaffected by nuclear war. There are a few activists like Helen Caldicott who never stopped realizing the horrors that these people were creating and spent their entire lives trying to stop what the rest of us just grew to accept and forgot. Its definitely got to be on our doomsday list.

    The thing that gets me the most is that its the taxes of nice caring people who get used to create this, so that we all contribute to building our own doomsday machine. If you think you don't, then consider where a large proportion of the Uranium came from, and how that wealth made us all richer, how much money you have given to American corporations - by watching TV & shopping in supermarkets where most goods are made by global corporations, where all Australia's military hardware comes from, what the US are doing at Pine Gap, Where your petrol money goes, etc etc. Basically nearly every cent we earn ends up back with the corporations, if not by us then by the next person who gets it. We have to break this cycle and keep our wealth in our communities. Its not that hard. Food, transport, shelter. Everything else is a luxury, some of which I'm not willing to give up like my electronics, but that is such a small fraction of my consumption, and they are using less and less power. My big fat TV is replaced with a TV card for my laptop and now I get 7 hours viewing on one small laptop battery, same with music. SBS and ABC of course!

    I've ranted enough now. This was supposed to be short.

    Ciao

    Jo
     
  6. GoddamnBats

    GoddamnBats Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Living out in the country and being in the environmental field, you hear that more and more people have small hobby farms and 10-200acre blocks of land. This is perhaps a positive sign that gradually people are realising how unsatisfying it is to live and work in the concrete jungle, and are interested in living their own lower impact lives.
    The hope is that once you get out of the cities and realise there is a big wide world available to you, your sense of responsability increases and you start thinking about what you can do to make your patch better. Of course, I'm preaching to the converted here!

    I've had a few farmers come up to me recently and say that the best thing for the land is to have more small landholders spring up, as they take care of their properties much better than farmers ever can. My goal here is to increase farmers planting trees and developing a low rainfall perennial crop to get rid of this wheat and sheep disaster.
     
  7. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    maybe they aren't worried about climate change so much as your TV not working.


    Olsen and Mandea say their model for the flow at the top of the Earth's core fits with recent rapid changes in the planet's magnetic field, and is also in agreement with the changes in the length-of-day.

    The researchers say the core flow involves rapid variations that have occurred rather suddenly, involving only a few months. They said that is a remarkably short interval compared with the time of the last magnetic field reversal that occurred about 780,000 years ago.

    The findings were reported in the May 18 issue of the journal Nature Geoscience.
    https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2008/07 ... 215615162/

    magnetic field strength has waned 10 to 15 percent over the past 150 years, the article says, and the deterioration has accelerated. “The fact that it (magnetic field strength) is dropping so rapidly gives you pause,” says Dr. John A. Tarduno, professor of geophysics at the University of Rochester. The odds of a reversal are “more likely than not,”
    https://www.iceagenow.com/Magnetic_Reversal_Chart.htm

    So, if you consider a world with no TV, radio, telephones (fixed or
    mobile), computers, shop-tills, no planes,no ships, no radar, no air
    traffic control, where weapons of mass destruction were likely to go
    off without human intervention, and nuclear subs suddenly started
    spontaneously exploding while aged power stations lost all their
    regulatory barriers, you'll get an idea of the possibilities. Think of
    all the disasters they were warning about for the so called "Millenium
    Bug" in 2000, then imagine them all actually happening.
    Then imagine the earth shaking, hot ash falling on your head, a tidal
    wave approaching, and a migratory herd of Wildebeest turning up on
    your doorstep.
    https://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=70055

    Einstein is said to have considered it one of the most important unsolved problems in physics. With a year of computing on Pittsburgh's CRAY C90, 2,000 hours of processing, Glatzmaier and collaborator Paul Roberts of UCLA took a big step toward some answers. Their numerical model of the electromagnetic, fluid dynamical processes of Earth's interior reproduced key features of the magnetic field over more than 40,000 years of simulated time. To top it off, the computer-generated field reversed itself.
    https://www.psc.edu/science/glatzmaier.html
     
  8. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Could we be wiped out? We discover that we are not as safe as we'd like to think."
    https://kusmos.phsx.ku.edu/~melott/Astrobiology.htm


    A team of astronomers from the University of Sydney in Australia have been keeping an eye on a binary star system called Wolf-Rayet 104, located in the constellation Sagittarius. Wolf-Rayet stars are hot, gargantuan, older stars that are losing their masses, and astronomers consider these stars as ticking bombs: they could go supernova at any time within the next few hundred thousand years.

    "I used to appreciate this spiral just for its beautiful form, but now I can't help a twinge of feeling that it is uncannily like looking down a rifle barrel," says Dr. Peter Tuthill.
    https://www.universetoday.com/2008/03/03 ... ray-burst/

    Was the December 26, 2004 Indonesian Earthquake and Tsunami
    Caused by a Stellar Explosion 26,000 Light Years Away?
    Sound Crazy?
    https://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html
     
  9. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    the collective human system has moved from a stage of initial undifferentiated unity with its environment (hunting and gathering), through a stage of dependence (agriculture/imperial colonies), to the adolescent stage of developing independence (industrial/independent nations), and now could be ready for maturing and integrating itself in the adult stage of interdependence (planetary/ecological age).

    The transition is not guaranteed, but the power is in our hands to weight the jostled system in favor of a more sustainable vision of the future. The planet's voice is attempting to speak through us, to us, and from the life intelligence within us, guiding us home. Will we heed its call?

    a hopeful alternative to the entropic chaos of the material order.
    (excerpts)
    https://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC07/Burton.htm
     
  10. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  11. Mango1

    Mango1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    In my humble opinion -

    All things tend to equilibrium; if concentrations of a chemical or population increase within a system, the system will naturally react to re-establish equilibrium - hence increasing population will lead to global warming or increased disease, reduced resources etc, which will in turn lead to a reduction in population.

    I hate to say it, but with an exponential rate of human population increase, one way or another a large number of us are at best well and truly screwed. I think the best bet is to do what you can to cover your own backside. Maintain a skill set and knowledge base that will keep you one step ahead of the bloke next to you. Learn how to grow your veg, get some land, learn to defend yourself and be as self sufficient as possible, and teach your kids the same - that way when it all goes up in smoke, as inevitably it eventually will, you and yours will have a better chance of rebuilding the population ;)

    Its just a matter of time people :axe:
     
  12. missf

    missf Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Farmer
    Location:
    Gatton qld
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    Dry
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    yes I have done just that. I have just purchased 200 acres for that very reason.
    I gave up my business , and moved bush to set up a permaculture farm and be totally self reliant. would love to hear from others who are doing the same
     
  13. missf

    missf Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Farmer
    Location:
    Gatton qld
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    Dry
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    i used to think there was hope and now I wonder if we did not come to the end of this time to see the ending..
    on a positive note ... there are many people doing extra ordinary things for the planet that we do not hear about...
    and like any good movie, the good guy always wins............... :D :D :D :D :D if only
     
  14. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Great Question Frosty 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

    I used to worry about the world,the oceans,the land,the trees the river,people and everything else, one could think of,probly just like most of the posters to frostys question,,

    Then i got depressed by all the doom n gloom merchants..( the media)....

    Then i realised that me as a single entity had no say or stuff all in the grand scheme of things.....

    what could i do to save anything or any one from, (list goes on and on and on and on)

    I know how Nohah must of felt trying to pursuade people to join his cruise liner on a cruise.......

    Humans for whatever reason through our evolution have lost sight of our real pourpose in life.........

    I think our primary need in life is to survive,Im just 54,Im a surviver of sorts,only mising my teeth and appendix so far lol.

    Next is a space to keep dry and sleep a reasonable period of time.

    Next Is WATER..very important stuff this...fresh,drinkable water...

    Next is FOOD ..just as important,fresh safe food...

    Chuck in a huge dose of air and sunshine and well be right ...... Without any of these items wed be dead in a pretty short period of time,depending on what your are going without... Put that together with a body thats virtually defensless,no claws or horns or animal teeth to help us,or natural hairy bodies to keep us warm....

    We got it hard enough to survive even before all the rest is added into the eqations as far as i see it...

    Its time to take our own responsabilty for our own indiviual selves....... We owe it to ourselves to look after ourselves.It gives us power.power to grow our own
    food,produce our own fresh drinkable water,our own air our own house,...OUR OWN MIND..... its like that mind over matter saying..lol..We dont mind AND you dont matter......

    You cant force change it has to be done from within.within our own hearts...

    Be Your Own Nohah. Get Your Ark Shipright and Shiptight or you might get wet feet...

    Its up to us in our own back yard

    Tezza
     
  15. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,573
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    In reply to the topic "Can we survive Climate Change"

    I think the question should probably be, "Can our climate survive US ?"
     
  16. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Here a way Permie Gardeners can help
    Biochar: Grow Bigger, Better Veggies While Slowing Global Warming
    https://www.admin.mtu.edu/urel/news/media_relations/709/

    Also this seminar /talk might be of interest to anyone who can get to it
    Myth-Busting Climate Change and it's Consequences
    Hosted By the Central Coast Branch Engineers Australia
    Guest Speaker: Prof. Garry Willgoose
    Date: Tuesday 28th October 2008
    Venue: Central Coast Leagues Club, Gosford
    Time: 6.30pm for 7.00pm Start
    Cost: $40 Members/Partner & $50 Guests
    RSVP: By Tuesday 21st
    October to Katrina Baker on Ph (02) 4926 4440
    or
    [email protected] Fax 02 4929 7121
     
  17. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Just like Duck-weed in a closed jar. We multiply and consume our available resources until it is all consumed and then we suffocate.
    Nature has its own sense of irony.

    Be the change you wish to see in the world - that way however it turns out will be mostly irrelevant, as you will have lived as well as you could. This is true of any political, environmental or social climate. That is my humble opinion
     
  18. urbanus

    urbanus Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    Please explain? Howard had little to do with creation of junk debt in the USA, Greenspan lowering interest rates to 1% or oil hitting US$140/bbl. The USA is responsible for about 30% of world consumption and dwarfs the Aussie economy. What evidence is there that the Greens would have the credentials to manage this situation as well, let alone better? If the "ignorant masses" would only blame the Greens if they were in government at this time, what do you call those who blame the incumbent???
     
  19. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    (OFF TOPIC
    What has happened to the 50 billion -"Future Fund"- $s Howard gave the Yanks to invest for us??)

    i think we can survive Climate Change but we need to invest in solar and other alternative technologies and get charcoal accepted as away of sequestrating carbon.

    https://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 842715.htm
    https://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/

    If you want to be scared read Climate Wars by Gwynne Dyer
    (Scribe Oz)
     
  20. aslanded

    aslanded Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Can we survive Climate Change

    urbanus, this is an australian forum, and the greens Frosty is refering to are the Australian greens party. Howard followed suit with US and UK policy and allowed personal debt to fuel our ecconomy for the last 10 years or so, so creating an illusion of prosperity or a "bubble" which peolple lived in. The false prosperity caused a sense of security and wellbeing and pampered the population so that there was no incentive to think or act responsibly and government policy encouraged big spending and consumption, as in the US and UK. The spending has been on short term goals and things like public transport networks have seen little growth. Its left us in a pretty bad way, with most households in way too deep with debt, fuel prices soaring and undeveloped infastructure to cope with the huge sprawl of suburbs on city limits and no way for people to get into the cities without driving. In addition food prices are about to go through the roof and theres no money being borrowed by people to feed into the system as house prices are now over double what they were 20 years ago in comparison to wages and they are now a bad investment as the prices are falling.

    Frosty, when you said you thought the global financial system was going to collapse a few months ago, I could see hard times ahead but thought a total collapse was unlikely. Now I'm not so sure.

    In Tassie now, and building and planting like crazy :)
     

Share This Page

-->