"Can We Avoid the Looming Ecological Armageddon?"

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by ecodharmamark, Nov 22, 2007.

  1. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day All :)

    The following is a link to a recent La Trobe University 'live-to-satellite' on-line lecture by Suzuki.

    https://www.latrobe.edu.au/quick/suzuki.html

    I trust you will find him of interest; I love the guy!

    Cheerio, Mark.
     
  2. Jana

    Jana Junior Member

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  3. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

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    "He (Suzuki) argues that, in the case of climate change, our political leaders do not utilise the best information to reach a conclusion. Our political leaders factor in elements such as the next election and the business community’s needs and then adopt the kind of information that justifies their actions."

    Remind anyone of anyone?????

    Don't waste your votes tomorrow, folks!!
     
  4. IntensiveGardener

    IntensiveGardener Junior Member

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    In answer to the question i beleive it could be avoided if the wonderfull examples in your links were replicated wholesale by people and governments accross the world. There is no question in my mind that the massive and excessive production of the modern world could be sucessfully used to prevent the looming catastrophy.
    Unfortunately however this will not happen as people are too busy saving up for the latest mobile phone or a second four wheel drive etc.. And governments are too busy pandering to the demands of these people who have been convinced that they deserve it by governments and corporations. The massive excess of production is currently being spent on wars which are only necessary in order to keep the population from realising that there is a massive excess of production.

    I'm personally of the opinion that peak oil will occur long before environmental armogeddon. I guess the only hope is that the end of fossil fuels will occur before nature is fatally wounded.
    On the other hand peak oil may not bring massive collaspes of society but rather unmask further the tyranny which has been underlying the whole thing for a long time now.
    IG
     
  5. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Nope.

     
  6. IntensiveGardener

    IntensiveGardener Junior Member

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    well, even if we are past "tipping point" surely the huge amounts of production could be used to minimize the effects, stop doing damage and to allow humanity to ride out the comming catastrophy, rather than rushing headlong into the abyss. The climatic turmoil which is comming is just nature's way of trying to re-ballance itself. It is not the end of nature. It need not be the end of humanity. The only viable human response is to try to re find out place in the natural world and be part of nature's ballance.
     
  7. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Re: the question asked, "Can We Avoid the Looming Ecological Armageddon?"- Nope.

    I see massive on going problems that will take generations to fix or recover from "IF" things change now... So much has to change and the western way of life has to be placed under real choker chain control, I just don't see it happening, Sorry. While lots of great things are going on it's still only a tiny tiny faction of the effort and change needed, Grass roots change is happening but I feel if change is going to happen it's got to happen from the top and as the US Gov continues to show the top is owned by the big rich end of town.

    Try and tell someone who drives a shiny new 4WD, who owns 2 plasma TV's and lives in the shiny new suburbs where forests grew only a few years before, that their way of life is wrong and what they do and enjoy is creating havoc the world over. I've tried, Good luck.

    I live close to an expanding and booming city, new highways and tunnels, forests everywhere making way for "sustainable growth" HA! it's all BS if you ask me, Travelling in my little car to work both my partner and myself get pushed and shoved about by angry people in big new cars, some days we get home to the peace we have created here and ponder the future and the ever expanding light glow from the city hiding our beautiful milkyway a few stars at a time.

    Sorry to be realist but my eyes are wide open, I'm informed and understand a good deal of what is happening to the environment, like many here, I'm preparing my land to cope with less rain, crazy weather, to produce more food, fuel and offer a haven for wildlife our animals and our families away from the crazy world.

    Have you ever seen a small animal close to a main busy highway road, trying to dodge traffic, as it jumps close to a car you feel that horrible feeling seeing something about to happen, you wish you could pick it up and protect the animal, take if far away from the traffic, but you can't, you can't stop, car's everywhere speeding, you pass by looking back wondering if the animal turned around or made the fatal jump. While I can slow down, pull over, pick up the injured animal, That feeling is how I feel when I see another forest gone, another six lane road, chemical trucks, oil spills, rubbish piling up on the side of the road, so so many other signs that thing's are heading in so many wrong directions.

    I don't understand why people don't see it, greed? lazy? surly they are not all that Stupid? do people just not care? I found a car battery dumped in the gutter out the front of here today, we live on the edge of a water catchment lake, all the acid had poured into the drain. :shock:

    When I do venture north of here to my many Permie friends on the sunshine coast I see the work they do, it refreshes me to see positive views and proactive people, If change was to come I hope these people would be leaders and I hope one day this will happen, I cross my fingers and toes it does.

    These crazy thing's are going to happen slowly, no sudden world ending event or big bang, just slow and steady, little thing here, little thing over there. I hope I'm so very wrong. :?
     
  8. Ichsani

    Ichsani Junior Member

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    Hate to be a pessimist, but I don't think it will be avoided either. There is too much invested in the status quo of (imagined) value.

    I agree that it won't be the end of 'Nature', I'm always struck by the sheer hubris of the idea that we could somehow wipe out natural systems and not take ourselves/dominant cultural paradigm, out WAY BEFORE its all gone.

    We/humans are making a big dent in the world, that is only getting bigger with more and more people (living the 'western' life, equating consumption with happiness). The weather is getting wilder, which I think will continue (more heat = more energy= more movement of water and air= wilder weather).......

    ............basic physics.................... all that energy has to go somewhere!


    Its a hard topic to talk/think about, just have a look at how Hardin is regarded. I see lots of misery coming for 'westerners' (not: 'OMG where is my petrol for my humvee', more like : 'OMG, where is my food/water/healthcare' etc), which in some ways seems only fair considering the misery generated elsewhere by the pursuit of never ending growth.

    The way I see it, we're running out of time (and space)....So if we don't culturally do more as a collective (that means everyone, or near enough), we will lose our chance to influence the outcome.

    In short, if insufficient action is taken then the choice will be made for us. Judging by anthropogenic history (ie try Diamond's "Collapse"), its going to take a VERY BIG jolt to put the boot up enough people.

    That outcome is the one that is bone chilling for me. To be honest, I'm scared silly.

    Ichsani
     
  9. caldera

    caldera Junior Member

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    we reap what we sow

    it is difficult to be positive when tropical rainforests are being logged and cleared for palm oil at the rate of 300 acres an hour (well, that stat. is only for south east asia)

    but a lot can happen in just 10 years, just 10 cycles of the sun

    and the sun is still shining, even behind the clouds

    in the last election, environmental concerns barely got a mention

    now they are up their with the "economy"

    people are waking up, and sure, people are still asleep

    we all know inside that we must "be the change we want to see in the world"

    sometimes the hardest thing to do is look at our own way of being and work on our own inner growth

    as the dalai lama says we must first clean up our inner polution

    so in conclusion

    I sometimes feel dispair, but i know its all in my mind

    in fact, it is ALL in our mind

    every bit of it

    most of our problems are problems of imagination

    and all of the solutions are solutions of imagination

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utBkbJIYMy8

    "In every community, there is work to be done.
    In every nation, there are wonds to heal.
    In every HEART, there is the power to do it."
     
  10. Ichsani

    Ichsani Junior Member

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    Thank you Caldera for reminding me what is important. To focus on what I can change, not what I can't.

    I agree that alot can happen in 10 years and I sincerely hope that it does.

    Ichsani
     
  11. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Read "Collapse" by Jarred Daimond.... it is not a book that builds optimism..
     
  12. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Apparently Just before the last world ending bit of action...Some guy was warned about the looming disaster and he got his act/arse into gear saved a few animals and insects apparently....

    His name was Noah or something simular ..

    Now we have thousands of noahs this time but this time we are called Tezza,Chris,Len,Sue even an ichsany now. 8) :lol:



    How is your ark(garden going)
    Anchors away my hearties, yo hoho and a bottle or rum...

    Wheres your bucceneers?....
    Under my Buccenhat...

    Tezza
     
  13. grease

    grease Junior Member

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    Apparently Just before the last world ending bit of action...Some guy was warned about the looming disaster and he got his act/arse into gear saved a few animals and insects apparently....

    His name was Noah or something simular ..

    Now we have thousands of noahs this time but this time we are called Tezza,Chris,Len,Sue even an ichsany now.



    How is your ark(garden going)
    Anchors away my hearties, yo hoho and a bottle or rum...

    Wheres your bucceneers?....
    Under my Buccenhat...

    Tezza

    Hey Tezza who warned Noah?
    And when did the last world end? as far as I know we are still living on the same globe. The difference is we think we can do it without the guidance of the creater
     
  14. Ichsani

    Ichsani Junior Member

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    Love a good bit of theology....

    Hmmm..... to my little mortal mind, God/Allah/Yahweh/El/Bhakti/Ishvara plus 10 000 other names......is in everything, a part of everything, and is everything in its entirety.....

    So I guess to me, it is the natural world (which includes humans IMHO) that is divine, so I reckon that the natural world is the mouthpiece of the divine. So who's to say that the 'natural/animate' world is not telling us, in its own way, that the shit'ith is gonna hit'ith the fan'ith?

    So in way a we are being warned...... by our fellow Homo sapiens + lots of other species + the weather + the health of our water/land/rivers etc.

    At least that how I look at it, but I was always into naturalistic pantheism :D

    All of course, in my humble opinion.

    And remember that the 'END OF THE WORLD' can only ever be stated in a context of what a collective group of humans identify as being 'THE WORLD'. Hence there are many end of worlds possible and the world has already ended many times for many different cultures.

    (Once again) I cite "Collapse" (Jared Diamond) as case and point.

    Heads up Western Industrialism!


    :clock: :toimonster:



    BTW my native cedar has hit the 6 metre mark and its only 2.5 years old! I'm so proud of it. Have run out of room in the garden (again) and am eyeing off a 6x6 m bed in the park opposite my house..........36 m2 of blank canvas (minus one big paperbark) no grass and already bordered by concrete edge....its just waiting....

    Ichsani
     

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