building permission

Discussion in 'General chat' started by 3angels, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. 3angels

    3angels Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi, can anyone advise if no building permission on a peice of property means that you can not live on the land permanetly (NSW) thanks
     
  2. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    hi mate

    the question is a bit 'incomplete' mate...(probably why no-ones answering you).

    Zoning of the land? rural, town ???

    Existing buildings on the land??...status of those buildings (a shed is a shed , it ain't a house,,,)

    Or...are you proposing to camp on a bit of rural dirt somewhere with no buildings........mate,,,are you sitting down? ...you can't,, unless you're squatting in the sticks, and then so much depends on 'landscape'...the local shire, neighbours,etc.

    I live on my rural block in the desert - i have no house - i have a camp......
    but I sure have an approved sewergae system blessed by the Dept.Health with a certificate (framed and on display in the shitter).
    I also have the minimum 3 seperate sinks required by legislation...the fact that these are hanging off of trees is not an issue....

    The building code (of Australia) gives you bugger all scope to dig your hobbit hole or live in a tree....but there are shires in Australia where the building code is not mandatory...here you can have a decent bit of dirt, and there is scope to hide on it and play.

    Tell me where you are mate, give us a bit more to go on....If you are free and sans kids....squat!!!
    Mate,,fun,adventure and really wild times - squat in the Kimberley W.A., fresh water and jungle bro. Lake Argyle is a huge inland fresh water sea with a multitude of rivers and creeks and caves. If I was sans paradise,,I'd be a squatter.

    Turn feral bro :lol:
    hey Nimbin,, throw this guy a bone you rich bastards :wink:
    regards, KImbo
     
  3. 3angels

    3angels Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    Hi, thanks for the reply. You sound like youv'e worked it out at any rate. My question I guess was pretty general wasn't it?
    I often see cheap land advertised. When I check a bit closer I realise it is cheap as it has no building entitlement. Yes, it is ok to camp/grab a van etc from my end but I did wonder if councils only allowed you to STAY on the property for a certain period of time. ie: "camping/holidaying" as apposed to "living"
    I am in the Hunter region of NSW. I dont care if I build on land or not, happy to camp 4 eva but is that allowed?
     
  4. kimbo.parker

    kimbo.parker Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission...and the tale of the American in Oz

    One day this american guy rocked up in our bit of the sticks, and he liked what he saw. He bought a block, 10 acres on the outskirts of the town....well sort of prior to the outskirts- close enough to town to be town.(mind you 'town' is a blink).
    He promptly moved onto his land. This guy was a law student (maybe he had a rich daddy, I don't know),,but he supposedly knew his shit. There was not a camping ground arround, it was his land,,,he was within his rights to occupy it.

    the local folk (as weird a bunch of rednecks as you get), they were looking at this novelty,,this was new they thought - and
    "that shining dome thing that must be his house Sheila ...heh heh heh"
    "gawd what's he up to today Alf?"

    This bloke would stand out front of his land for hours every day looking up and down the road shaking his head.
    One day, some local asked what he was waiting for?
    The Mail explained the American.
    Jeeze mate, you need to get a box, says the local.

    The next day the American bloke spends hours standing out front of his house, looking up and down the road shaking his head,
    with a cardboard box on the ground near his feet. :lol:

    After a while he got his mail....and a dose of reality.
    It doesn't matter if it is your land or not....you don't put up a tent on a block, in a place like this...where other folk have houses (and churches, lots of churches)
    For a start you're gona need cover,,,they won't actually be aiming at you, but it feels better behind cover.
    "jeeze Alf did ya get his? mailbox heh heh heh"

    Anyway, the local Health Inspector rocks up and wants to see his 'toilet' ....
    The bloke hasn't got one but he explains his discrete use of a hole in the ground.
    The Healthy, writes him out his 'piss off' notice............but the American not to be out done on a point of law, points to his neighbour, a paddock with over 100 sheep in it and declares they would output more waste than him ,,,where is their shitter?

    The Healthy explains that the Health Act legislates for human behaviour,,,,a sheep can piss where it likes.

    He may still own that land...but he isn't living on it :wink:
    regards, Kimbo
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    yep kimbo,

    you might own it but they tell you what to do on it when it comes to living there. it's all dictatorial realy no common sense as they have the final word.

    when we built we had to have a premit to live in temporary accomodation, of course this permit came with a fee (hey they need to keep the grog cupboard full hey) and it came annually, they hung ned kelly. now mind you they where happy enough for us to live this way for a very long time as the house evolved you might say, and they where happy enough for us to have a thunder box and bury our spoils on a weekly basis in said fashion ie.,. 1 meter deep so wild animals can't dig it up. but the minute you build a house a thunder box is not in their plans, and some even make it difficult on composting toilets. of course at the same time another bloke was and is living temprarily out of sight and out of mind, good on him! we were a bit more visible.

    so when you buy land you buy the right to do what they say you can do.

    len
     
  6. 3angels

    3angels Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    Thanks for your reply Kimbo. Reading it and laughing was a good way to spend some time. Sorry I took so long to thank you....work work work etc
     
  7. thepoolroom

    thepoolroom Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    My uncle used to have land in the hills near Bega. It was a long way out, on a dead-end dirt road. He just built a house there with no permission or anything. It seemed to work fine, the house was not visible from the road (and the road had no traffic anyway!), and nobody seemed to bother him. Lived like that for many years.

    Of course, at any time someone could come along and tell you to move on. I guess that's the risk you take.

    Maybe you need a secret cave like Batman :).
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    they have areas up here north west of gympie is some where so long as you are a certain distance from neighbours and out of sight of roads you can build class 1 structures/dwellings, ths goes for sheds as well but at the end of the day they should have approvals.

    there's probably going to be a sting in the tail when you come to sell and you haven't got approvals you then can't sell the structure as a dwelling, or if you then try to get approval there may be new ordinances that weren't there when you built. the wise thing would be to have a private company do your approvals and don't involve council. but should imagine councils can cause lots of dramas when they want to.

    len
     
  9. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    There was a wonderful collection of shacks at the end of Cronulla beach Kurnell ?NSW. Gathered around a tiny bay full of fish. No road into it to speak of -a deep sandy track a 4WD would have had major trouble with. The shacks were built from driftwood timber and wondrous, inventiveness and ingenuity.
    Far more interesting & creative than the 'Shacks' the National Trust wants to register in Tasmania.
    My dad, a screwed up TPI pensioner, (He buried his own platoon in the jungles of Borneo), lived there happily for many years. The exercise of dragging his grog back from the pub, and any useful building bit, building on to the shack etc kept him fit. He loved beach fishing. He even found a young woman to share the home with him. It was a great little (2-room) place. An idyllic location and small community where everyone looked after each other. No one knew it was even there tucked out of sight as it was.

    Then the Queen came to visit Australia and was going to see where Cook landed -many miles away-.
    The government came in and bulldozed the whole community.

    My dad lost heart after that, lived in a sterile rented flat- next to the pub, and died young of a "heart attack".
     
  10. Pablito

    Pablito Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    Same thing happened to the "huts" at Evans Head many years ago, Michaelangelica. The council decided that the huts were inappropriate and had to go, so a community lost out.
    Friend of mine has being doing real well on his block in a very civilised, fiited-out container among the trees. I just heard today, that the dog-catcher started nosing around because he saw a new dog in the area and has reported the fam to the Council. Urgent action is now in hand to get a building permit under way.
    I grew up in a house in Lismore that was built by hand by my great-grandfather and his brother over 100 years ago. There wasn't a plumb wall, or level floor in the place, which made hanging the sliding door in my bedroom a challenge for the old man. But the house is still there. In fact, I reckon you'd need a dozer, or a firestick, to bring it down. The pit-sawn timbers were augured and then joined by having brass dowels banged through the holes and flattened at the ends with an iron plate and sledge hammer. After that a few nails were banged in. The timber was put in green, so shrank around the dowels. Would it pass inspection now? Not likely. Was it a great house? Damn right.
    Moral of the tale is that we're over-regulated to blazes because people have given their autonomy to "the authorities." I know the arguments about needing to have some protection against shonky builders, or dodgy home renovators/builders, who might try to sell something dangerous, but I would never buy a house without a thorough structural inspection and nor should anyone else. So if I build something that suits me, but not others, let it be on my head if it won't sell.
     
  11. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: building permission

    i worked briefly for the Registrar General in NSW in a previous life.
    There were many magic words and spells
    e.g.
    "Existing fenceline'
    "prior use"
    Aboriginal title
    perhaps even "squatters rights"
    I was a bit amazed by the cuppbord full of bits of paper that represented land that no-one owned. Although i think a few RG employees became rich- before the ICAC.

    Putting a fence around something for a set period of time seemed to magically mean you owned it. If the Oz Aborigines had only thought of that. :)
    I'm no solicitor and most solicitors are not really up to speed on land title (They can 'exchange contracts' but don't know the minutiae of the law, especially on 'old title', if any still exists)
    But try to get some professional advice; it may be as simple as your friend needing to put up an old rusty fence or declare "Terra Non-Nullis" :) You might even be surprised to find a sympathetic and/or helpful ear at the RGs department or whatever it is called now. (just be circumspect).
    My local council (Gosford) has never one a legal battle in living memory. They often just rely on bulling and threats.

    The RGsDept was trying to make multiple dwellings, as in "hippy" communes, more accessible when I was there.

    This is the art of the possible
    https://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Beautiful is it not?
    The government wants to tear it down
    https://www.simondale.net/house/lammas.htm
    A $1 donation from Oz might be appreciated in many ways.Lammas also provides advice and solidarity to those pursuing low impact living elsewhere
     
  12. nsw

    nsw New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    not sure how to make a new tred?

    A friend has buit a house with no da or building entitlment about 9 year's ago is there any law (grandfather rights) that makes it ok to keep the house now ?
     
  13. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ask Mark
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day All

    Sorry I missed this one. However, I'll have a quick crack at it now. At only around (by now) ten-years since time of construction, that would make it a very young 'grandfather right' - even if such a right did exist. Generally speaking, in cases such as this, the (proven) age of the house would most likely have to predate any previous or current state legislation that did/does require development consent in order for its current owner to claim any sort of exemption from planning requirements. Whatever the case, if the current owner wished to sell the house via a legally binding contract, then I would think any property lawyer/conveyancer worth her/his salt would advise a potential purchaser to run a mile, because without of certificate of occupancy (itself most likely reliant on development consent, and remembering that planning always comes before building) the place is (in a legal sense) worthless.

    As an aside:

    For anyone contemplating a project in NSW (Australia) that may be affected by planning law, you should be aware that the current legislation is subject to change in the very near future.

    In the interim, the Environmental Defenders Office have recently updated their fact sheet on NSW Planning Law.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  15. Changellain

    Changellain Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fantastic info and very sad stories in this thread. Can I ask a similar question since we're on the topic?

    We brought a (claimed) 100 year old house on a property in farm zone in NSW, and we're planning on moving in. Havn't thought to consider if we're allowed to or not!! Our current house is over 100 years old, has no council permits that I know of, in dual purpose zone in VIC. We're living here quite happily over the last 5 years, getting charged rates, all the regular services and mail. :)

    Do you think there's any chance of being required to get permits or anything of the like in the NSW property? As I said, we havn't had any issues here in VIC. The NSW property doesn't have any services and just a drop loo. That's fine by us, but this thread has me (over-)thinking. ;)
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,922
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    G'day Changellain

    Concerning the NSW property, and with regards to planning law only: If the dwelling (house) is as old as your vendor claimed, and if you can prove it has had people residing in it continuously for the entire period of time (i.e. breaks of no longer than 2-years at a time with no residents), then you probably have a good case for claiming a 'non-complying, pre-existing use right' if you should need to do so. However, you should seek the advice of a qualified planner to confirm any legislative intricacies as they may be applicable to your particular and unique situation.

    Concerning building certification: You should seek the advice of a qualified building surveyor.

    Concerning the legalities of waste disposal: You should seek the advice of a qualified environmental health person.

    Also note, NSW planning legislation will be the subject of major changes in the very near future.

    Hope that helps?

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  17. Changellain

    Changellain Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Markos. :D
     

Share This Page

-->