bugs still in the works

Discussion in 'Forum Info and Questions' started by songbird, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    1. i'm a moderator? (i haven't done anything yet, but it looks like i'm seeing moderator info)

    2. i'm being told i have a personal message, but when i click messages there's nothing there.

    3. latest activity in a long thread puts me at page 50 when there are 92 pages, so it looks like there's a limit being hit somewhere.
     
  2. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I'm noticing quite a few broken things too, but given that no-one involved in the upgrade has bothered to talk to us I can't see any point in doing any testing or giving feedback. Bill says they're reading here, but I don't see any evidence of it. Hard to see the place being trashed, although I am sure that they are trying to do something to better it.

    I've seen this happen before a few times on various forums. Each time there are changes like this that take a long time to sort out, people get put off and lost and the community diminishes. It then has to be rebuilt, but sometimes that simply doesn't happen because too many people have been put off.

    Basic things like keeping the regular members updated on what is happening and why will keep a community going, but just leaving the mess and not communicating anything is not good. It's not very permaculture either IMO :-( Sorry to be so damning, and I'm sure there are all sorts of things happening in the background I am unaware of, but it's hard watching something we've been involved in for many years be so disrespected.

    If Geoff is wondering how to get permaculture into more people's minds, this isn't the way to do it.
     
  3. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    i always go by the theory that if someone doesn't say something then it won't ever be fixed. i hope eventually things will get sorted out.
     
  4. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    The CSS & JS Script above line 37 seems so.... ugh, let me know when this is all fixed. These problems should be addressed offline and then loaded up. The damn header takes up my whole screen at 1600x900 resolution.

    Meanwhile I am going to garden.
     
  5. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    This is apparently a very big revision to v-bulletin and the main work is to fix some very large problems (like getting the moderation queue working ... queued posts seem to be visible before they are approved). Sorry I haven't been more help, but please know that the "Admin" by my name is strictly to create accounts for those who are having problems.
     
  6. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    True, but I don't like speaking into a void either. There seem to be many things wrong with the forum currently due to the upgrade, but apart from Bill's occassional comment, there's nothing from admin. That says a lot about the priorities here. I'd be very happy to do some testing and give feedback if I thought it was going to be taken seriously, but everything I've seen in recent times here tells me that it doesn't matter.
     
  7. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Without knowing what is going on, but based on past experiences with other online communities, it looks like it's being done on the cheap.

    I appreciate your efforts Bill. I just wish there was some real connection between PRI and this community.
     
  8. Bonnie_PRI

    Bonnie_PRI Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi songbird,

    PRI is upgrading not only the forums but the whole of permaculturenews.org with new features. However, the forums have had some unexpected issues. They have only been upgraded the once, that we are aware of, in over ten years. Thanks so much for your patience. It will all be over in the next week.

    Cheers Bonnie.
     
  9. Bonnie_PRI

    Bonnie_PRI Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Pepple,

    I'm Bonnie, Geoff's daughter and the Sales and Education Coordinator at PRI. A few broken links for a couple of weeks is not a big issue. PRI is a not for profit organisation, which I am sure you are aware of. As such we do not have the funds to have the forums professionally upgraded and themed. We (and I mean one person managing all online content) is doing it all, bit by bit, whilst still keeping all sites active. Just try and give a little bit of patience and understanding. Contribute, if you feel the if you can and feel the need but please don't criticise people that are working very hard behind the scenes. And look on the bright side, the forums are now responsive, so things are already looking up.

    Cheers Bonnie.
     
  10. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Hi Bonnie, great to hear something from admin, thanks. However this isn't an issue of just a few broken links, there are more problems than that, and it worries me that you don't realise what they are. How can you fix things that you are unaware of? Genuine question.

    There is a resource here, the regular long time members, who can test from the user side. I hope you take advantage of that.

    As for the criticism, as I have said elsewhere, it's disapointing to see something we've all been involved with for so long ending up like this. That there has been no announcement explaining what is going on and put up as a sticky tells me that the community is not a high priority. There are some simple things that keep communities engaged and functional when such disruptions are happening.

    "PRI is a not for profit organisation, which I am sure you are aware of"

    Yes, I was aware of that, but I also thought that there had been a strategy of web development in place for a number of years going back to when the global sites were set up. I can't comment on how the PRI should be using its money. I do think that there is possibly an issue of priorities and one of efficiency (based on seeing this happen with similar kinds of organisations). In other words, the forum seems like a lost opportunity to me, and this is just making it a lot worse. Looking after the community during this would mitigate that. It's not just about the money.

    The forum has been updated a number of times in my time here.
     
  11. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    Bonnie,

    thank you for the update.
     
  12. Bonnie_PRI

    Bonnie_PRI Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Pebble,

    The forums have only ever had one major update in over ten years and the theme change that went along with it was basic at best. And yes I am aware of a number of issues and they are all being dealt with. If you think there is something PRI is not aware of than simply let us know, our contact details are everywhere.

    Thanks for your concern. Again if you would like to contribute and help, then just let us know. We are here, working away in the background, every day.
     
  13. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Your header is driving me literally insane. Look.

    [​IMG]

    As I said, you have problem with the CSS & JS above line 37.

    This is what I also see when I make a post, I see the image above. Your footer doesn't matter, the header does. It's even worse on my g3 phone.

    Oh, one more thing, that 4 messages I have is a lie. I had 1.




    Happy Bug fixing.
     
  14. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Here are my suggestions:

    1. put up an announcement in this forum, with capital letters in the subject line, something like PRI FORUM UPGRADE AND CURRENT UPDATES.

    2. make that a sticky at the top of the list of posts

    3. use that thread to let the community know what is going on.

    4. put up another thread, also as a sticky, asking for feedback from people that use the forum, again with capital letters, eg FORUM UPGRADE FEEDBACK THREAD

    5. talk to the people who post in that thread so that they know they are being listened to. Listen to them as well.

    6. in the medium and longer term, build relationships with the regulars and long term members

    7. reinstate a system where some of the regulars have (limited) admin duties (what happened to that? we used to have that). This is about sharing the workload, but it's also a good way to keep the community informed when things are changing or when there are problems (or when good things are happening!).

    8. when you are about to do an upgrade, make an announcement in advance so that people know there are going to be disruptions.

    9. use the people who use the forum a lot to advise on what is important in terms of functionality, design, content etc.

    10. keep communicating and building relationships.

    11. develop a strategy for management of the forum (and how that fits into the rest of the PRI web stuff). At the moment it feels like an add on with minimal attention and care, and the way the community has been in recent times reflects that.

    Much of what I have just said is basic to running an online community. Communities grow and flourish on the basis of relationships (that's permaculture in action). Where people feel disregarded or unimportant, they are less likely to contribute. Where you don't retain regulars, communities diminish. Where people feel listened to and engaged with, they tend to stick around and offer to help. When regulars remain regulars they build things and communities flourish.

    To give an example, Pak has mentioned twice that the header is a significant problem. I also said something about this a fortnight ago. Because there has been no response to that or other issues that regulars have raised, it's easy to assume that what we are talking about is being regarded as unimportant (that's based on my experience of this forum, and other forums both good and bad).

    Bonnie, you say that you know what the issues are, but I don't see you or admin using the forum so how do you know which bits are not working? How do you know what is bothering other people here?


    I don't want to get into a semantic argument about the meaning of update or major, but from the front end perspective it's simply not true that this forum has only had one major update in ten years. I'm uncomfortable about all that work that's been done in the past by many people being made invisible.
     
  15. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Given that the PRI is non-profit, and that geofflawton.com/Geoff Lawton Pty is a private company (and pretty successfull looking from the outside), perhaps Geoff Lawton Pty could help pay for the repairs and maintenance of this forum.
     
  16. Bonnie_PRI

    Bonnie_PRI Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Pebble.

    A PRI member checks these forums every day.

    The header can't change until the new theme is upgraded, which is only next week. It doesn't make any difference how much money you or anyone has. It will not work until then. It's a cosmetic thing and it doesn't look like that on every browser.

    Geofflawton.com is a partnership between Geoff and Ecofilms. Geoff and Nadia have put in over $500,000 into PRI in this last year, from their share of geofflawton.com.

    All I can see in this thread is drama. You say you want to help but I'm yet to see any evidence of it. Would you like to be a moderator Pebble?
     
  17. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    honestly, the way this forum is being run at the moment and the way we are being communicated with, no I wouldn't want to be a moderator. I'm sorry you think this is dramatic. From my perspective I'm raising legitimate issues, albeit in a grumpy way, and they're mostly being ignored or dismissed, or I'm being told off. Is that really how you want to be relating with potential helpers?
     
  18. Geoff Lawton

    Geoff Lawton Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Pebble we are continuously growing this organisation in many new directions and we intend to keep growing while we believe the work we are doing is helping the world. Please be patient this is all going to work out just fine.
     

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