Blackberry solutions

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Mirrabooka, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    Hi Guys.

    I recently came across an article that suggests that Black Walnut and Blackberries are not compatible due to juglan (excreted by the Black Walnut root system) toxicity.

    Has anyone experience in attempting to use Black Walnut treets to eradicate recurrent Blackberry invasions?
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    ooooo Permie Peter - My first look at your post had me ready to hit the SPAM button! I thought you were trying to sell us PDA's. So pleased that you actually had a real question. I don't know the answer but someone here will.
     
  3. DonHansford

    DonHansford Junior Member

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    Hi Peter
    Not sure about the walnuts, but I know David Holmgren has had a lot of success using apple trees. The blackberry acts as a nurse plant, and in return the apple trees grow up and shade out the bb's. Another one I heard somewhere on a similar vein was that once the apple trees were fruiting, let cattle in. They will trample the bb's to get at the apples, apparently.
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Location:
    inland Otago, NZ
    Climate:
    Inland maritime/hot/dry/frosty
    Holmgren has a pretty good write up of that on his website.

    I'd rather have blackberries than black walnuts ;-) (although they are beautiful trees).
     
  5. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    I am a loyal follower of Lord Ludd and would much prefer smoke signals to a Perverse Diarrhoeal Agonist (if smoke did not contribute to atmospheric CO2)

    Congratulations on the website
    Peter Heffernan
    Flinders
    Victoria
    Australia
     
  6. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    The idea is to grow the Black Walnuts to about 4 meters then graft English Walnuts from that point- and Presto- timber for the grandchildren's superannuation and walnuts for us until it's time for our ashes to join the compost heap!!
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Peter

    Welcome to the PRI Forum.

    As Holmgren once said (Bendigo PDC 2005): "...you never really get rid of weeds. The best you can ever hope for is a better class of weed".

    I cannot remember the context in which it was said, but I seem to remember we were standing on the bank of Spring Creek when he said it, so it could have been in relation to Willow, or Blackberry, or...

    Anyway, enough fun and frivolity. I think you will find the following article of great interest:

    Scott, R. & Sullivan, W.C. (2007) A review of suitable companion crops for black walnut. Agroforest Systems, Issue 71, pp. 185-193.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  8. DonHansford

    DonHansford Junior Member

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    Thanks Markos - that is a really handy reference! Especially regarding the elderberry (at least S. canadensis) must try S. nigra and see if the same applies. Thanks again
     
  9. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Seems there's lots of good uses for black walnut:

    According to Herbs2000, walnut has an array of medicinal uses -- including appetite stimulation and easing skin disorders and diseases such as eczema, wounds, hair loss, menstruation and anemia.

    Read more: https://www.livestrong.com/article/302310-black-walnut-hull-eczema-treatment/#ixzz17jPL3wcU



    You know, I just mow my berries as close to the ground as I can get whenever they start to show up, two, three times a year, eventually they give up. Make sure there's no mulch of dead leaves around them, even though they are probably tapped into ground water, they don't like dry, exposed topsoil.
     
  10. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    Holmgren is amazing.

    I'm still trying to figure out how he actually establishes trees of any kind in that 'mat of blackberries' he and his 'tramplers' establish.
     
  11. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    Yes- the mower- I'm currently trying that method. However, I must admit I hate the experience of that fossil fuel contributing to the... I'm sure you share that reservation. As for when the Peak Oil crisis hits.....

    Thanks for the Black Walnut reference.

    Best wishes,
    Peter Heffernan
    Flinders,
    Victoria
    Australia
     
  12. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    I Dont know if its true but wont cost much to try , heaps of lime , around here there are none growing in the heavy limestone country but in the rest they are growing like weeds anywhere its wet enough , thread has reminded me to give it a try .
     
  13. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    I know someone volunteered to tunnel in (possibly adorning a suit of armour) with a machete and hacked a ring wide enough for the tree to establish itself and grow through the mess of blackberry, prior to any other intervention
    . The mat you refer to is a living sponge reduced to the bottom of the Spring Creek Gully. Plants are introduced on the banks, and willows i believe are just tough enough to perservere.
    Cows can definately be introduced when appropriate, goats i think do a better job munching back on the foliage.
     
  14. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    Blackberry control and Black Walnut solutions

    Hi Guys.

    I recently got this reply from a US Black Walnut researcher that makes interesting reading-

    "Hi Peter,
    I co-wrote the Black Walnut article with William Sullivan. I did much of the original research. According to the research, Black Walnut is strongly prohibitive of Blackberry (Note that we are speaking of Rubus fruticosus as opposed to Black Raspberry which is Rubus occidentalis). I have also found this to be true in my personal experience with the two black Rubus species. In fact, if anything, Black Walnut seems to provide a suitable setting for Black Raspberry, though I've never found Blackberry growing directly under a mature walnut tree.

    The problem is that it will take you 15 years (given a reasonable tree stem spacing) of walnut interplanted in your Blackberry bramble before you would produce enough juglone to kill blackberries. Meanwhile any number of things could happen to your walnut trees, or your project as a whole. Walnut allelopathy is not a quick-fix for invasive plant problems. But in your "Zone IV or Zone V" applications, to quote the Permaculture lingo, you might give it a try.

    Hope this helps,
    Rob Scott
    University of Illinois"
     
  15. SueUSA

    SueUSA Junior Member

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    My memory is spotty, but I believe it was Bill Mollison (Permaculture Manual?) where he said hay was dumped into a ravine of rampant blackberry, enticing cattle to go to the hay and they also ate the blackberry plants. After 30 years, the blackberries were still there.

    A man I know up here in blackberry country said that the only way to really get rid of them is to dig them out (preferably in early summer when our dry season begins), dry them out, and mulch them heavily. He said that way, while there are still roots in the ground, the absence of moisture and preventing them from sprouting leaves (photosynthesis in leaves feeds the roots) is about the only way to kill them off permanently. He says he does monitor them closely to watch for leaves.

    I have dug out young ones in summer in an area that doesn't get supplementary watering, and it seems to have worked, but I didn't mulch them.

    If someone had a sawmill or something that worked black walnut, I wonder if there would be enough juglone in the sawdust to make it worthwhile using as a mulch for the blackberries?

    Sue
     
  16. aslanded

    aslanded Junior Member

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    I cut my blackberry plants along the Fence this year back about 3m so I have a nice square hedge. Its about 100m long and 4 feet high. I can now reach the thousands of blackberries easily and it looks great. I did it with a brush cutter with a blade, then mowed the cuttings into mulch. I will keep mowing this area with the grass and plant chestnut or similar trees along it. It took about 6tanks of fuel and as many hours bhramaputra the quantity of berries will make it very low efforts compared to other berries. My neighbour has an ice cream maker and was a chef so it will be even better!
     

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