Aust soil carbon credit market has begun

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Sonya, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

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    The Australian Soil Carbon Credit Market Has Begun
    Category: Carbon

    "New South Wales farmers are lining up to join the battle against Climate Change because politicians and officials are dithering," says Michael Kiely, Climate Change Coalition candidate for the Upper House elections on Saturday 24 March 2007.

    "Farmers have started selling 'credits' based on the carbon dioxide they can soak up on the 'voluntary market' in Australia.

    "Governments have all adopted the Morris Iemma stunned mullet look when it comes to practical action on climate change," stresses Mr Kiely, a woolgrower from the Wellington district.

    "A group of farmers have launched the market for soil carbon because the climate won't wait for politicians to come to grips with the issues.
    "The first sale was made on https://carbonfarmers.blogspot.com yesterday.

    Soil carbon storage is the only way the existing levels of CO2 can be soaked up. Our political leaders clearly don’t understand the basics:
    there is enough CO2 already in the atmosphere to drive the world through the 20C increase barrier into climate chaos. None of their solutions can address this glaring gap.

    "Solar, wind, nuclear power, clean coal nor long life light bulbs can soak up existing emissions - they can only prevent future emissions.

    "Only the process of photosynthesis can absorb CO2 in the volumes required. This leaves only forests and agricultural soils.

    "Forests are limited: We would need seven planets covered with forests to soak up all the existing emissions," says Mr Kiely.

    "This leaves soils. With 65% of the surface area of the earth's landmass managed by farmers, a simple change in practices could start the storage of billions of tonnes of CO2 immediately.

    "The forest solution would cost billions to plant and take 10 to 15 years to come on stream. The soil solution is ready, willing and able.

    And it's cheap to do!" concludes Michael Kiely.


    https://www.climatechangecoalition.com.a ... &tx_ttnews[backPid]=88&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=161
     
  2. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    sonya,

    Thanks for the thought provoking link. I am one of the enlightened, I only say this because I think I am suffering 'global warming' meltdown.... :shock: This probably means that many other people are.

    What I think concerns me is that I feel like a lot of people are yelling at me to do something, which I am and have been for many years. I feel like screaming.... 'STOP YELLING AT ME AND LECTURING ME AND BLOODY DO SOMETHING - RIGHT NOW!!' Obviously I shouldn't internalise this debate... :D

    A lot of what was said seems to reiterate what Ken Yeoman's said in his book 'Priority One', it is a pity he is not getting real credit for his work although it took about 50 years for his father to be recognised as a visionary by many of the scientific community. Holmgren & Mollison have also said much the same but this facet of their teachings seems to have been largely overlooked.

    Anyway enough of my rant.

    cheers

    floot
     
  3. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

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    As a wise person once said - "the dots are all starting to join together".

    Sonya
     
  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    so now if we pay the farmers they'll start farming sustainably???

    i'm with floot feel like we're being pummeled around the head with something.

    to me it doesn't matter how long it takes rehabilitating the bio-diversity to work we got to start repairing sooner than later, mining companys have to restore land they spoil last i heard so why not farmers?

    len
     
  5. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    it all reeks of a money making con to me ! I read the blog but cant work ou exactly what they are going to DO :?

    frosty
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    it's become 'snake oil' off the back of a cart stuff realy, for one how in the earth paying for a carbon certificate is going to magically suck all the carbon from around those individuals who pay is beyond. you ever heard the saying "owning a boat/yacht is like standing on a cliff face on a windy day throwing $100 bills over the edge"?

    if farmers where genuine they would admit that farming practises have left a lot to be desired but they continued on knowing they should be doing it different, so integrity would dictate that now they have come out of the closet over the issue they should shoulder their sahre of what ever has occured and rehabilitate the land they have decimated and continue to do so.

    like floot said we for one have been running along sustainable lines for a decade now in that time i would guess we have used at least 1k bales of hay/straw (all bought from farmers who then should have put that cream profit money back into this carbon sink they now talk of, instead of hair do's, holidays and cars). also in that time we would have purchased equivalent amounts of mushroom compost, we have planted thousands of trees, hundreds upon hundreds of other plants, reduced our draw on the power supply, reduced our reliance on the water supply.

    and that takes nothijng away from all the others who have strived.

    how do you think we feel when we reduce power cut water use and others use air/cons and worse evaporative air coolers and waste up to 50 litres of water per running hour, all those of us who care are doing is making it easier for those who don't.

    len
     
  7. Agmates

    Agmates New Member

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    AGL & ORIGIN ENERGY - Buy Soil Carbon Credits Off Forieg

    G'day Sonya,
    I'm Steve from Agmates, the 100% PRO - AUSTRALIAN FARMERS blog site.

    Perhaps your readers might like to check out our lastest posting https://www.agmates.blogspot.com/ to read about what Australian farmers are up against.

    It's an absolute scandal the rort that has been placed upon them by the Federal Coalition Government.

    P.S. We are just up the road from you at Gympie.

    Cheers - Your Agmate Steve
     
  8. Sonya

    Sonya Junior Member

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    Hi Steve,

    Had a look at the blogspot, but it's a bit long and rambly... can you explain it in a couple of succinct lines? Just so we can understand what's going on?

    Cheers,
    Sonya
     
  9. Agmates

    Agmates New Member

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    Summary of Post

    G'day Sonya,

    Yes sorry I know the article is long and a bit disjointed. its a complex issue. Here a summary summary:

    In 1997 at the Kyoto Conference - Environment minister Ian Campbell holding out to the end of the conference only agreed to sign Australia up only if clause 3.7 was included (this clause became known internationally as "The Australian Clause).

    What this clause did was allow Australia to meets it's agreed reduction targets to the year 2008 by doing nothing else except stopping land clearing in Qld & NSW.

    The Coalition Government have never flagged this as being the case, but instead did a deal with the labour state Governments of Qld & NSW. In exchange for them passing legislation to stop farmers clearing (and improving) their Land the Federal Government would give them more funding. Done deal and a win win for both Federal coalition and State Labour. State Labour didn't mind copping the flack, because most farmers are conservative voters, Federal Coalition avoided the fallout, but looked great to the Greens and the international community.

    Sophisticated Financial modelling shows that the banning of land clearing is costing Qld & NSW farmers $600 million dollars a year through lost production.

    There has been absolutley nothing else done by any government to halt our emissions, yet "we are leading the world" in cutting emissions to date. The banning of land clearing has equated to a cut of C02 emissions of 78million tonnes. Meanwhile for the same period the Stationary Energy Indusrty (Power) alone has increased emissions by 84 million tonnes.

    Does Australia expect Qld & NSW farmers alone to shoulder this huge financial burden whilst every other industry has grown with gay abandon over the last 10 years. Farmers have done this, all the while believing that it was the conservation groups who were doing them in. It's a shock to find out it's their own mates in the national party who have shafted them.

    What the Federal government has actually done by stopping farmers land clearing is STOLEN 78 million tonnes of CO2 credits off farmers. At the bottom end of the price scale for a tonne of carbon ($25 per tonne) this equates to $1.95 Billion dollars. At the top end of the estimated range ($70 per tonne) it is $5.46 Billion dollars.

    Now, with the coming of a National Emissions Trading Scheme, Australian farmers want to be able to participate in the "wealth transfer' that is Carbon Credits.

    In the carbon trading model, you are in one of 3 positions, A Net emitter, Carbon Netural or a Net sequester. If you are a net emitter (like a power company) the only way to cut your emissions by 60% over the next 43 years (the Kyoto target) is by buying Carbon Credits off a Net sequester (someone who sequests more Carbon than they emit).

    There are only 2 sources of Carbon Sequestration, Trees and Soil. Farmers are in the Box seat to be net sequesters and hence be one of biggest the receiptients of the hugest wealth transfer this civilization has ever seen. Estimations are that global Carbon Trading over the next 43 years will be a $15 Trillion dollar industry. that's $15 trillion dollars going from Industries that pollute to those that sequest.

    This is a win win for all, because farmers would actually have to become Carbon farmers to take part in all of this. The time is near when farmers could actually make more money from caring for the biodiversity of their soil and palnting trees (rather than knocking them down.) than they could out of farming and grazing.

    But heres the second scandal in all of this - The Coalition Government wants notyhing to do with it. They have told the NFF (the peak Australian farming Lobby Group) that measuring and selling Soil Carbon credits is not possible. Indeed the Federal agriculture minister Peter McGauran has told farmers that there is "nothing in this for farmers".

    Meanwhile Australian Energy companies AGL (Australians Largest) and Origin energy are buying 'offset credits" off farmers in Canada, USA, Mexico and Brazil. these are Soil carbon credit traded on the Chicago Climate Exchange.

    So now we have the ridiculous senario where Australian Companies are buying soil carbon credits off foriegn farmers so they can continue to pollut here in australia. Meanwhile or farmers miss out on this wealth transfer.

    What the Government has done is offer Australian farmers piddling "Stewardship Payments" (another government handout) in lieu of being able to trade soil carbon credits.

    These credits will accrue and will (are) being measured by the Government as we speak. They no doubt plan to STEAL those as well (just like the Credits from Land Clearing Bans) and give them to one of their big industry mates to offset their unabated growth.

    This is an absolute scandal and Agmates ask each and every Australian who supports 'a fair go' to be outraged at the way the Farmers of Qld and NSW have been swindled by the Federal Government.

    Hope this makes a complex issue a little clearer and perhaps you could support a 'fair go' for Autralian Farmers, rather than as a tax payer sponsoring another 'hand out'

    Cheers - your Agmate Steve

    AGMATES, 100% PRO - AUSTRALIAN FARMERS
    https://www.agmates.blogspot.com/[/list]
     
  10. digging

    digging Junior Member

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    I've also thinking about this, and it seems to me that Hemp could be grown as a carbon sink crop because it can be mulched and produces the same volume and even more than some trees. In addition the seed can be used to make bio-diesel, which I feel is better than the GMO canola crops.

    Digging
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day digging,

    and used to make material s well so that the unfriendly cotton can not be grown and also the cellulite in it can be used instead of chipping old growth forest trees, lots and lots of benefits in growing it as a crop, only thing though law enforcement officers too silly to be able to tell the diff' between this one and the other one.

    len
     
  12. digging

    digging Junior Member

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    I believe now is the time to change that thinking, because of the size of the climate change problem. There is a reason Hemp has been around so long more so than just for smoking it!!
    I believ cotton is much harder on the land than hemp.

    Digging
     
  13. digging

    digging Junior Member

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    One more thing,

    I read that if each person planted 10 trees per year that would off set thier carbon well how much hemp would be equal to that? Also I believe hemp harvest would be much easier than cutting trees, perhaps more useful too! Think if we all started wearing natural fiber clothing that could add a bit of carbon sink too!

    Digging
     
  14. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    One of the greatest cons on society by the western style governments ie The yanks...has been the Criminilisation Of the humble Hemp plant,

    I dont know how to post links but Id thinkthered be hundreds of sites relating to this subject......

    IF only people really new how good the hemp fibre and the seeds are to use for a multitude of Possibilities...

    30 years ago it was called a Billion dollor crop.....Today its gotta be worth closer to 30 TRILLION dollars.....

    If all paper was made from hemp they say theyd need no old growth forest..

    Cars can be made from hemp.
    Clothes from hemp...
    Nappies from hemp
    woodchips from hemp.
    Build houses from hemp..
    Apperently Dupont were behind the banning of Hemp just prior and again after the second world war...It doesnt require huge amounts of water, unlike cotton,
    No wars fighting over oil for nylons,plastics etc.
    The seeds are reputedly one of the highest nutritional values around..
    Apparently Taggasasties are another huge one,BOTH are high in those oil making areas for bio diesal...

    Just ask any polly why we dont grow more hemp...their answer people might smoke it
    :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

    Pity they cant stop making petrol to stop substance abuse.

    All the time we blissfully follow GW and co, well be slowly killing our planet,killing our children,killing our forests,killing our fresh water,


    OUR lawmakers are the true Criminals not the social smoker,
    Why isnt Tobacco ilegal,Why isnt Alcohol illegal.

    Why is defending your own country against greedy oil chasing @#!*^#$ Illegal?
    Why are we still sat here moaning about this,that, and all the other things.

    Sometime this year we get yet another chance to SAVE our world...

    Will this be our last chance.....How many more chances do we get???..

    Tezza
     
  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day tezza,

    i think you'll find they are 2 different plants mate?

    just the one that has no um ah recreational value still can't be grown because dumb law men can't tell the difference.

    len
     
  16. digging

    digging Junior Member

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    That's right,
    there are different strains of hemp in Canada there is a list of the varieties that can be grown, it seems they are very low in the 'drug' and you'd have to smoke a pound of the stuff to just get a bit light headed!
    Heres a Canadian Gov't fact info page. I'm sure it would not be hard to have this same change made down under!

    https://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/pubs/pre ... che_e.html

    Digging
     
  17. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    I know theres 2 types of plants at least Len..I was going on more about the Hypocrosy of it all...

    Hemp could potentialy be a world saver,

    As Ive said before in here

    THE Pollies Dont give a flying toss about anyone bar themselves....

    AND they get voted in by PEOPLE who dont give a flying toss either


    Tezza
     
  18. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Sorry Diggings x posts :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Thanks for your link it was interesting,and backed my speach a bit....

    2 questions..Why is it ok to grow a crop to brew alcohol and enable all sorts of nasty side effects eg violence,drink driving,depresion,addiction, etc etc too many to list...

    Why is it illegal to grow a plant that puts a smile on their dial,and creates a feeling of well being and a caring nature......

    Dont anyone tell me about Hemps medical problems or any other possible long term effects....

    Alcohol and Ciggeretts are far more damaging then Hemp..

    Just think..By decriminlising Hemp All those thousands of people wasting resorcses could be better used protecting our country in different ways,

    PREVENTING CRIMES.......

    Lets give em a job as hemp industry workers....

    Tezza
     
  19. digging

    digging Junior Member

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    Well I must say if you are against booze and ciggs than you should also be against smoking hemp! I must say that hemp is far far harder on the lungs than ciggs because of the vey high oil content!

    But yes you guy and gals down under need to get the ball rolling and let this plant be grown for the RIGHT reasons!

    Digging
     
  20. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Why should I, Hemp isnt used or Advertised.Ciggies,and or Drinkies,have been used and even encouraged to be used byboth sexs,and only a token on age limits,

    Iam no longer a beer drinker or any spirits these day

    I am no longer ciggy smoker either..

    BOTH were introduced to me at early ages and even encouraged and both are addictive allmost or worse then Heroin..

    Suger is bad for us.
    Caffine is another baddy,
    Too many different medications are addictive or just plain bad...
    Gambling is another addiction.
    Sex is a big one too...


    Why just pick on the simple old hemp plant.....a plant that can save the world!!
    OR any of the others.....

    Tezza
     

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