Aussies have 20 years of FAILURE?!

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Pakanohida, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    and who are the green's when they aren't at home?

    and the yanks are of course full into sustainable development, i think not, how about the pom's? all they can do is house a larger and larger population, they import lots of their food needs from the east coast of africa.

    need to take care of whom one listens to and work out their motives.

    they support this going nowhere egg on face policy of carbon tax.

    show me any country in the developed world that even builds sustainable homes let alone anything else. they are mentioning about how we have too big a footprint they want us reduced to around 100sq/mts, with no land, just like in asian countries, all that will allow is to cram more people into a given area.

    len
     
  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Don't worry, NZ is failing most of its obligations too :)
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Norway to build world's biggest wood apartment block

    And not only do the Norwegians look after their own backyard, they are also helping those in less developed regions do the same:

    Norway launches renewable energy scheme for developing countries

    Australia's environmental record is appalling. We are among the OECD world's top environmental vandals in terms of having the largest houses, the thirstiest cars, the greatest amount of greenhouse gas emissions per capita and, not to forget, the fattest asses.

    Make no mistake about it, we are up there with the worst of the developed world's greedy, filthy slobs.

    However, it is not all bad news; change is happening. And while it is OK to have a good hard look at ourselves every now and then, we also need to remember to focus on the positives, and to plan for a better, cleaner, greener future for the generations that will follow.

    A recent 'story' from the local rag in this vein:

    Locals say Bagshot compost plans are really on the nose

    Full details of the proposal are available here (the 'supporting documents' - i.e. research reports - are at the bottom of the page):

    Greater Bendigo Planning Scheme Amendment C131

    A letter of support (incidentally, authored by my PDC facilitator):

    Composting is the kind of development needed

    If you take the time to look a bit harder at what is happening around the world, Len, rather than constantly beating your anti-science drum, I'm sure you will find that there are some little rays of sunshine occurring amidst all the piles of shit.

    Cheerio, Markos.
     
  5. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Michael Reynolds of Taos, New Mexico, USA has been travelling the world helping people do just that.

    I know he has projects going in multiple countries besides the USA and not limited to:

    Pine Ridge Reservation ((Sioux Lands, not USA))
    France
    Sri Lanka
    India


    I didn't post this to point fingers at Oz, or New Zealand, or anywhere. It was just news I came across surfing today. However, I would like to point out that it isn't about weather or not a country does something, but what the individuals of those places do to make the world a better place.

    Just like every place, all around the world, its the "Same Song".
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    projects here and there really achieving little just a lot of chest expanding, aussies worse than yanks with big SUV models sucking up gas yeh as if, and using pro-rata to support a claim is dishonest policy, they never sue pro-rata in road accidents it is full in your face records, so aust' that produces 1.2% of this carbon pollution (remember CO2 is heavier than air, so how it gets up there is scientific speculation and false theory), this CO2 pollution is around 20% of the atmospheric gases, and china who does not provide power to majority of it 2 billion whatever citizens produces 22% followed by india, and somewhere the US, get real prot-rata is altering common sense thinking.

    when someone wants to make something look bad they use pro-rata, to fit the theory which has no fact or hard copy history beyond 20 years 100 years at a pinch, it is a dishonest formula. and the green leader with his fuel plume smoke chimney on his cottage, telling us who burn nothing how bad we are, the pot and the kettle routine.

    when you see what supposedly intelligent people believe and follow there is no hope for us little people down the bottom.

    and this theoretical climate change is all about finger pointing they take the smallest and best and make them look like the largest and worst. 22 million people worse than 2 billion or 300 million get real, none of them are actually going to do a carbon tax industry.

    China has 19% of the world’s population, but consumes
    ... 53% of the world's cement
    ... 48% of the world's iron ore
    ... 47% of the world's coal
    ... and the majority of just about every major commodity.
    In 2010, China produced 11 times more steel than the United States .
    New World Record: China made and sold 18 million vehicles in 2010.
    There are more pigs in China than in the next 43 pork producing nations combined.*
    China currently has the world’s fastest train and the world’s largest high-speed rail network.*
    China is currently the number one producer in the world of wind and solar power.
    China currently controls more than 90% of the total global supply of rare earth elements.
    In the past 15 years, China has moved from 14th place to 2nd place in the world in published scientific research articles.*
    China now possesses the fastest supercomputer on the entire globe.*
    At the end of March 2011, China accumulated US$3.04 trillion in foreign currency reserves
    - the largest stockpile on the entire globe.
    Chinese consume 50,000 cigarettes every second …
    While they manufacture 80% of the worlds solar panels,
    They install less than 5%. And,
    Build a new coal fired power station every week and in 1 year
    turn on more new coal powered electricity than Australia 's
    total output
    Already the largest carbon dioxide emitter, output will rise 70%
    by 2020.
    And Gillard wants US, to pay "Carbon Tax"

    len
     
  7. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    as i can't edit, pro-rata should read per-capita, i rip off factor.

    len
     
  8. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    It is the start a free market Emissions Trading Scheme, albeit badly marketed,something that all Oz political parties once agreed on.
    Hard to see it as a tax when it nets no extra govt revenue.
    China has one too
    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/...rbon-trading-pilot-scheme-20110718-1hl9z.html
    32 countries now have emissions trading schemes — including the UK and the EU, but not USA
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Michael

    Thanks for your patience on this one ;).

    Here's an accurate picture of who's currently doing what, courtesy of the DoCC&EE.

    Cheerio, Markos.
     
  10. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Thanks Mark
    While there is a lot of hope that the free market may tun things about, as yet, personally i am not convinced
    yet it is still a lot better than doing nothing; time will tell.

    As for the initial post yes OZ has as many, many environmental problems.
    One that concerns me at the moment is the Great Barrier Reef which the UN also recently gave Oz a blast on.
    Conservative Governments seem to have the environment low on their list of priorities and we seem to be going though/toward a Conservative (Republican for our USA mates) period of government
     
  11. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    I hope hotlinking isn't wrong on this one. I would find most people won't click on the link for the SOURCE.
     
  12. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I'm very cynical about ETS. The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. Still, it is better than nothing, because it keeps the issues in the public eye and on the political agenda. We are still a very long way from doing the right thing.
     
  13. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    to S.O.P

    good graphic, industry will shift to lower emmission practises yes they will go off shore to asia like very many are already doing, we will be a land of unemployed with no taxes being paid, only these theoretical compensations, the money will come from overseas borrowings as always, our public health is in the doldrums, not many worshipers of the climate carbon theory care much, just wait 'till they end up down here with the rest of us.

    don't hold your breath on the asian factor ever doing much in the carbon way, it is all talk, that's why they are over here buying up our coal reserves so they can provide affordable power to their millions upon millions of people, and of course for our manufacturing that will be contributing tho employing their people and paying their taxes.

    don't know where this 20 years came in? this carbon climate change less than 10 years old and the tax thing even so. yes i know it's a trading industry the costs of which will be passed onto all hurting the poor, already trying to pay for power and water and do without food.

    about time for a reality checker, CO2 is still heavier than air, the issue is all hypothetical theory never ever to be fact or factual.

    right from the beginning china had 300 or so old smoke belcher power stations tat they plant to keep, they also plan to build another 300 or so coal fired stations and sue clean burn tech' that they copied from our silly state gov' who wasted our health money in developing clean burn to sell to china. when you do their per-capita valuation don't forget to calculate in that they are very unlikely to be providing power to nearly all their people like australia does, and in their talk is cheap about a carbon tax they are maybe only maybe going to trial it in a maybe a couple of privinces maybe in 8 years time, just maybe. so why don't we just let victoria or NSW carry the bag and leave the rest of us alone. that will be a similar sort of token offering.

    oh! also note pakistan and india aren't mentioned

    len
     
  15. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Something is better than nothing, Len. It will always come down to that. Whatever that something is.

    I won't argue your points as I believe we are both on differing sides of the issues and it won't achieve much.
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    that's it hey those who have or think they have it, not caring for those below. a theory is not a something, down here we already have nothing. i'll end up with no teeth left in me head under the public system, people are taking their untreated illnesses to the grave, gets them of the waiting lists, i've already been on a list for 5 years, i'll get a call 2 minutes after i die.

    len
     
  17. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    I'm sorry to learn that you are feeling poorly, and I genuinely hope that you can receive the medical attention that you need very soon.

    In response to the points that you have raised:

    The '20-year' scenario refers to the 1992 Climate Change Convention, signed by 154 nations in Rio, each agreeing to prevent dangerous warming from greenhouse gases and sets initial target of reducing emissions from industrialised countries to 1990 levels by the year 2000.

    'Carbon climate change' was first detected in the 1890s by scientists Arrhenius (Swedish) and Chamberlain (American), who each independently considered the problems that might be caused by CO2 building up in the atmosphere. Both realised that the burning of fossil fuels could lead to global warming.

    Yes, 'CO2 is heavier than air'. However, this does not stop it from being taken up into the atmosphere (i.e. birds are 'heavier than air', yet they still fly) where it mixes with other atmospheric gases and creates an insulating layer. Hence the term 'greenhouse effect'. The greenhouse effect is scientific fact.

    While 'global warming' does still remain a 'theory', 95% of the world's leading climate scientists are convinced that the theory is sound, and that it is only a matter of time before it is proven to be a scientific fact. However, 'time' is something that we don't have in great quantities if we wish to stave off the worst of global warming's effect upon the functioning of a healthy planet.

    Therefore, in 1997 the Kyoto Protocol was adopted as a means of responding to global warming. By Sep 2011 (Copenhagen), 191 nation states signed and ratified the protocol. The United States, Afghanistan, Andorra, South Sudan and Canada (renounced in Dec 2011) are the only nations to have not signed the protocol.

    While acknowledging global warming is one thing, doing something about it is another. Many nations simply feel that they cannot afford to reduce their GHG emissions. This I can understand in terms of the poorer nations where water, food, shelter and bodily security are the main concerns for the majority of the people. However, in affluent nations like the US, Canada and Australia, there is simply no reason why we cannot implement measures to reduce CO2 emissions. Australia is about to embark on a journey that will attempt to do just this. Whether it is successful or not, remains to be seen. Whether the US and Canada (indeed, all of the signatories to the Kyoto Protocol eventually) follow or not, remains to be seen.

    As you so rightly point out, the health (and by extension, secular education) of all the world's people will be critical to the shift in consciousness that is needed for the above changes to occur. It is pretty hard to think about, let alone act upon, global climate change when one's belly is empty (or one's teeth hurt).

    Have a good weekend, Len, Markos.
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    all i can say markos,

    is same old trash feed, 1890's indeed the climate change debacle being recognised is only around 20 years old, and though worshippers of this thing are out of touch those that rely on public health are not about to get the help they need anytime soon, we need people who are humanitarians first and foremost and are not only aware of what is happening to their fellow citizens but genuinely want it improved before any of their follies. imagine suing birds as a comparison to Co2 heavier than air getting into the upper atmosphere which of course it wouldn't if we had all our natural forests, a very poor analogy indeed birds fly the CO2 pig does not fly. if CO2 is an issue regrow the forests, pull down the wind farms and grow the trees that once stood there, oh! sorry there is no money or crowd control in that system is there, no science needed.

    now if you mentioned methane then it may just be believable, but that will be the next progression when the CO2 tax industry does not bring change, what will we call it then the oxygen tax or the flatulism tax or a sewerage tax every time you push the button. that will be spread over most food farming especially meat animals.

    just thinking if there was CC identified in the 1890's then what caused it in a world of T model fords and sailing ships with some steam? what it proves is CC is a natural occurring process of the world, be awfully boring if all remained pristine as the CC worshipers want, but as i said before it might be lots better lots cheaper with all our forests in place.

    CC is and always will be a theory, in someones mind

    birds and CO2 can't be compared sorry.

    len
     
  19. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Sorry, CC isn't a theory, it is happening every moment, of every nanosecond, of every moment. Change is one of the few constants of the universe and even it is inconsistent.
     
  20. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yep that is true paka,

    but not the CO2 theory climate change i have already said many times since time immemorial the earths climate changes in cycles, Co2 like the birds can't get into the upper atmosphere even from the 30k feet and 60k feet flight paths of commercial jet liners with their kerosene based fuel. like when they settled iceland whatever they could at that time grow summer salad crops then their land went through a cold almost deep freeze stage and now again to being able to grow salad vegetables, that has nothing to do with anything except the planet going through change.

    len
     

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