Hi Eco, the paddock falls 100 metres in 600 metres or so and the lovely council have directed a couple of Km's of sealed road runoff into my waterway as well, plus we had 300 mm in one day here with some very heavy falls. The jambu are very high in moisture content and I think that they would need a lot of sugar, besides there are a lot better plants around to make jam from. I think that the lot going on all at once sort of sums me up. I don't ever get a chance to get bored, besides your dead for a long time. I like the sound of your recent observations and studies, but I tend to shy away with no rhyme or reason from formalising, methodology and dogmatism, not being rude and intimating that that is what permaculture studies are all about. I don't really think that I fit the mould of a dyed in the wool permi, but I enjoy the interaction, ideas and conversation. Cheers.