Aquaponics question

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Cornonthecob, Sep 23, 2005.

  1. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Can an aquaponic system be set up using a dam or pond? I can't remember where I read it in here, but I have done some more reading online and would love to look further into setting a small 'home use' system up.

    Mike.
     
  2. baldcat

    baldcat Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  3. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    awww cool :)

    thanks Dan
     
  4. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I too got caught up in the posts and excitement of the topic that Dan has linked too - it was those colourful little Mexican Waving Emoticons that did it!).

    We have a couple of dams - one of which is currently piped up to water my veggie garden (gravity fed)...I plan on looking further into extending my current system to use it to it's full potential (or at least part there of)...the dam does not have any fish in it at the moment and is poor fish habitat (not plants, hiding places)...

    I suppose the first thing to do is to work out what I want from the system - the fish would all get to die of old age...or in the bellies of ducks and kites...

    What are you hoping to acquire from your system Mike?

    Cheers,
    Fran.
     
  5. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    went to the https://www.backyardaquaponics It looks very interesting...You owns that site?? want more info .. but the email wouln't connect wrong POP or something.
    Cathy
     
  6. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    G'day Fran

    not sure at this stage...I'm currently in VIC but moving to QLD at the end of the year. Have just brought some land up there.

    I wanted to have a dam/pond for fish....so got quite excited by this idea of aquaponics....would like to work that into the whole permaculture planning when I plan my property.

    So in the early stages here....am reading as much as I can on the subject.

    :)
     
  7. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Congratulations on the property Mike!

    We are fairly new to Permaculture as a formal practice too, it is exciting picking up on ideas that can be incorporated into our end goal of being as self sufficient and environmentally responsible as possible.

    Happy information gathering and good luck!

    Cheers,
    Fran.
     
  8. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dats my website Cathy..... :D
    Bugger that the email didn't work for you, it should work ok, but you can message me directly here if you have questions anyway...

    Mike there are plenty of ways that aquaponics could be worked into a dam/pond, for centuries in asia they have used similar methods. Ponds full of carp for eating, and garden beds on the edge of their ponds. They would scoop the rich water out of the pond to water their garden beds with any excess flowing back into the pond.. They also used a lot of poo in their ponds so there was a great deal of algae for the carp to feed on.

    The possibilities for using a pond or dam in aquaponics hasn't really been explored to a great deal in recent times, at least not that I have heard of, so I think you should keep going and get some experiments happening... I plan on trying a couple of methods I have in mind when I get enough land to have a dam.

    Joel
     
  9. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joel,

    In Mexico, around Mexico City, the Aztec had Chinampa system agriculture, with canals and gardens, very productive ag system that sustained high population densities. The Spanish were extremely impressed when they encountered the city of Tenochtitlan and saw all of these incredibly productive (and beautiful) "floating gardens".

    The canals were used to raise fish, turtles, frogs, etc, and were also used to irrigate the beds. The canals were mucked out, too, with the rich muck going to the beds. Excess food, rotten veggies, etc, went to the canals, which fed the fish etc. Fish scales and byproducts went to the gardens... etc.

    This was not unique to the Aztecs, and in Northern Belize there is Pulltrouser Swamp, which when viewed from an aeroplane (airplane) is seen as a grid of regular, square islands in the middle of a low swamp. This was a Maya agricultural centre, which would have fed larger polities nearby. The productivity of such a system is staggering, as you, Joel, of all people know, and thiese chinampas are a stone age version of your innovative and utterly brilliant aquaponics system (quick, snap to, emoticons, front and centre, right, riugh, lets go, :wav: . Okay. Thank you very much gentlemen. Go home now....).

    I know a farmer here named Burton Caliz, who is a dedicated organic farmer, with a high species count on his two farms. He raises pigs, chooks, geeese, ducks, and he has many species t trees. He also has some canals which he uses to flood irrigate between strips of dry land, and he raises veggies and what not tthere. He is an amazing person.

    After seeing his place, I wanted badly to build such a set up on mine, but, sadly, the topography of my land is too undulating and steep, so it wasn't possible. I was bummed.

    Anyway, chinampa is pretty site specific. You either have the sit, or you don't. However, it might be possible to adjust a site abit, but I don't know Mikes site.

    Mike, BTW, I am excited for you. Good luck and post about your place to educate people like me!

    Christopher
     
  10. baleboy

    baleboy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i agree chinampas systems are amazing and in permaculture are often considered some of the most productive systems in existance

    there is information on chinampa systems in permaculture one and two i think

    hey christopher i went and visited the permaculture course at melboune uni yesterday , it is the last one bill is gonna do

    any way i was talking to someone about aquaponics and the whole "closing the loop "thing and this guys had a really simple idea

    if you have a small light source above the tanks like an oil lanturn or efficient flouro light the bugs will be attracted and die above the water and fall in and feed the fish there are lots of ways to trap bugs and they are easy to breed on an old bit of meat or fruit

    i remember seeing a simple bug catcher that was made somehow out of a plastic coke bottle it was amazing it filled up every couple of days without trying i wonder if you built i net over the tank with a little shelf above the water to put some meat on if you could just breed a zillion flies and mothes and whatever

    we have a bogong moth in aus which would fill up a fish for a week

    what do you think ??
     
  11. Penny

    Penny Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Flies and aquaponics

    Baleboy, are you mad, there are enough flies in Oz already aren't there. I recon I could supply enough flies for any number of fish and thats from those that fid me!!!!!
     
  12. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    from what I have read the catch with big ponds or dams is that you need a much larger veggie garden ........... I cant find it again but I thought I read twice the area of the pond :?

    joel ? is that right ........

    frosty
     
  13. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That works for me - I have two veggie gardens - one is about 1/4 of an acre and the other is only about 4x4 metres (if you put it all together, it's close to the house).

    :D
     
  14. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    (Edited to say "Marcus", used to say "Joel", Duh...)

    That's brilliant. It would work, too.

    The only problem I can see in this modified aquaponics system :wav: is what to call this component? Bug catching protein gathering component? Light derived insect deception trap? And, decaponics is 10, but 11-ponics? :lol:

    Anyway, that would definitely work, and just worked its way into the incredible system I have built, in my ccranium...

    Christopher
     
  15. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was leaving it for you to bring up the chinampas Christopher, it's your local thing... :D They are fantastic systems....

    Baleboy, I had a bug zapper hung over my fish tank last year which worked fairly well. I live in an area called 'south lakes' and we have huge quantities of insects due to the many water sources in the area. I still like the idea of suspending roadkill over the tank and letting it become fly blown, fish love maggots..... :?

    Frosty, your right, to have an ultimate system you have twice the growing bed volume compared to water volume but this is only to get maximum stocking of fish. You can have less fish in your water and then require less filtering garden...
     
  16. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    but if say we used our big pond - which holds 40000 litres - then only had a few fish wouldnt the plants not get enough nutrients from the water :?

    I would have thought the volume plus the ratio of fish was quite important

    and presuming you cannot add any fertiliser ( say animal manure ) to the gardens without harming the fish ? bit confused because didnt christopher talk about feeding the fish animal manure :?

    or am I just dumb :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    and how do the people with dams stop them getting full or algae ?

    frosty
     
  17. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thats exactly right, if you only have a few fish in it, then it will basically be water, and not have much in the way of nutrients. You need to stock it with a fair few fish to bring up the nutrient levels. (Gee that sounds techinical, a fair few :oops: )

    This is a fairly variable area, fish can be grown in an aquaponic system at stocking densities of around 6-7 kg of fish per 100 litres of water, but this is only in a welll managed system with a 2:1 grow bed ratio. This is walking a fine line, pushing the system to it's limits and grow beds will be extremely productive, though the system will be prone to fish deaths with any minor fluctuations, and algae growth would be a problem if sun gets to the water.

    My large sysem that has a ratio of arount 1.6:1 with about 2800 litres of water, has only about 15-20 kg of fish at the moment, I have no problems with algae and because the stocking density is so low I have no troubles with any toxic build ups effecting the fish, even if the power goes out for a while. But at the same time my grow beds are productive, maybe not as productive as they could be if I had more fish, but it's enough for me.

    My smaller system has around 3500l of water with a grow bed of only 190 litres. It has happily supported around 20-25 kg of fish but at the moment theres only about 6 or 7 kg, yet the grow bed is still growing well...

    I think that's sufficiently confusing..... :shock:

    The amount of fish in a system is fairly variable, with less fish you'll get less output but a more stable system..
    If your dam has an algae problem then you have nutrients in the water, you need to grow some plants in your water to use up the nutrients. Water lillies are good because they cover the water surface as well, stopping the light getting to the water, when the light can't get to the water, algae can't grow after all they are just a plant and need light like all plants.

    Hope this hasn't confused things too much more Frosty.

    Joel
     
  18. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thanks Joel I think I get it enough to be convinced that it is not viable to use the existing pond at this stage

    will start small

    we are hoping to get a second hand tunnel house to put the grow beds in and once we have that we can think about getting started - we know someone who has one just not sure if he will sell it

    thinking of old baths for grow beds

    thanks for answering my questions .......... I realise it is a bit cheeky and we should just buy your book :oops: which we will do once we do some costings and work out feasibilty

    things move slowly up here in frostyville :roll: :wink:

    frosty
     
  19. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I know someone mentioned feeding chook poop to the fish by having their roost set up over the water.

    Could any tank/pond have ducks using it whilst the fish are doing the fish thing....I know ducks poop whilst they're in water. Would their droppings feed any algae which in turn the fish might eat?

    Or would allowing ducks into the water contaminate the system?
     

Share This Page

-->