Anyone disagree with Bill Mollison on cats?

Bill Mollison states in a few of his permaculture books that there is no place in permaculture for cats(please correct me if i an wrong).

 

Oh dear, well I'm not putting my two down.

 

Well apart from catching the occasional mouse, I can't see what other use they would have in a permaculture sense. On another level they can provide much needed company and fulfill the need for a pet. I like cats, but I won't have one. I get too sad when pets pass on and I have too much wildlife around here for the pussies to get their claws and teeth into. I have a very cheeky antichinus that runs around my house and I'm sure a cat would have targeted it by now.

 

I disagree with bill too. I love my cat and he's staying put. He doesn't seem to kill much. Dogs kills things a lot too. The chickens are more nuisancing the way they dig everything up. But i don't care. You can get around anything. Maybe people who'se cats eat the wildlife aren't feeding htem enough or looking after them well enough. Do what you want to do.

 

Our cat used to share his food every night with a bandicoot... he even kept the birds off the vegie patch, not by attacking them only by trying to play with them and them chickening out... it was hilarious to watch...

 

Was Mollison talking about domestic cats or feral cats? Big difference.

 

well both, feral cats come from domestic cats.
mostly 'cos people don't nacker the boys so they go off rooting anything that walks domestic, ferals, the lot, bit like my younger days.

but cats couldn't be that bad, I have a local cat that lives in my backyard during the day, he likes to watch my chooks and knows that there are mice in the garage so I like him.
I have had a couple cats but i too can't keep them anymore as it's just too distressing when they die, they don't live long enough.

 

My cat is staying too. I was in the yard this afternoon, when he snuck back into my place through a crack in the fence with a huge rat in his mouth. Pity it was the neighbours rodent population he was sorting out, not mine! He pees and poos on my nice warm compost pile. He's great company in the garden - usually sitting a few steps away from wherever I am. I think he guards the chooks too.

And I don't need a hot water bottle because a cat under the doona is much nicer!

 

Pretty hard to grow sweet potatoes (camote in Spanish) here if you don't have something like a cat to keep the mice down who eat the tubers. And, we have seven types of wild cats here, from Marguay to Jaguar. Seems to me that they are necessary to the ecology.

Cats honestly don't do well here, they have lots of predators, coyotes are high on the list. Cats stay very close to habitations, if they want to survive, except the wild ones, of course.

Perhaps the real problem is that feral cats (from domesticated) are filling ecological gaps because the natural predators are all gone? You just need a predator to keep the cats down too.

 

"And, we have seven types of wild cats here, from Marguay to Jaguar. Seems to me that they are necessary to the ecology."

Ha, ha, good one.

I agree with the point about niches. Feral cats are a problem in some places eg in NZ native bush they kill alot of native birds, and the cats have virtually no predators apart from humans who aren't that good at it. That's quite different than someone intentionally having one or two cats as part of one's home or permie design (cats can be steralised, so don't have to contribute to the feral cat problem). In NZ, where we don't have many other useful predators I'd be interested to know how permies would manage rat and mice populations. Cats excel at this, and most people I know resort to poison when the rats and mice get out of control. Cats also make excellent companions for humans that like them.

 

Rat and mice seeking dogs are pretty good. I think the Tenterfield Terrier is probably the best. Geoff Lawton has one for catching the mice and rats around the place.

 

Over at Mountain Homestead (a permaculture residence across town from me) they have domestic cats that eat feral. No mice or voles anywhere in their garden which is surrounded by pacific northwest rainforest. They have no bells or collars on them as well.

My own cats catch mice, hummingbirds, other birds, and rabbits, till we started keeping them inside.

In history, cats were used to keep mice away from grain houses. Hence why they were so important in Egypt which at the time was the bread basket of the Roman empire.

When people started persecuting the felines in the Dark Ages we got the plague because things went out of balance between the fleas, rats, and cats.

So yeah, my observations make me disagree with Bill. Go fig.

Edit - If I don't have my dog, how can I search for truffles?! The dog protects me from deer, mountain lion and bear. So I don't agree about dogs either.

 

Pigs.

 

But it isn't multipurpose in this case! The pig won't protect me from deer, or a mountain lion.. it would be a snack or run off! The dog would fight & protect! Based on analysis, the dog wins!

 

no, you get a gun and protect the pig, in return the pig won't eat your truffles, it's the way it's always been, pig first, you last, so to speak.. :shake:

 

I am one of the few Americans that do not believe in gun use, I believe in the power of the compound bow. It's just more true to my Permaculture that way.

 

yeah i can picture you now, standing guard at the truffle trees, pig busy sniffing and you keeping the grizzlies at bay..

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PETA do. They think strays should be caught. neutered and released.
I tried to show them that feral cats in Aust were best dead and explain the destructive/catostrophic effects they have on wildlife but they were too Yankcentric to understand

That having said i have two cats, both are excellent gardeners

 

Cats taste just like rabbits, lots of people eat them. They can be a useful component of a permaculture system.
I would rather have Quolls, but at the moment we can't legally have native "cats", but no legal problems having cats.
Foxes on the other hand are almost inedible, and have very few uses in a permaculture system.

 

What is a quoll and what part of the world do you live in?