Aminopyralid contamination

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by frosty, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    you may well ask what is that ....... I had no idea either until I read Monbiots piece at www.monbiot.com/2011/07/15/has-beans/

    now it explains some strange Jerusalem artichokes we had last year

    we use manure from the local riding school - and spread it all over our paddocks. We dont usually put it on food crops but we did in that garden last year ......... probably a lucky mistake or we wouldn’t have known about the contamination that is in our paddocks
    Any animals that eats grass or hay ( or grain or ? ) with it on it or grass grown in manure with it in it passes it right through and into the manure killing some plants grown in that manure ...... of course the company making it say it is harmless to animals and humans ......... How can we be sure ? something that persistent really scares me


    We are Organic and the goats eat the grass is this stuff in their milk ? My muscle wasting is getting worse and I cant help but wonder if this could be why


    We dont know what to do !


    Some sites say soil microbes will break it down but they reccomend tilling ........ I thought tilling killed microbes ?



    we will mow all the paddock grass ( oats lupins etc )and keep the goats off it this year ........ hope we still get enough rain to break it down



    but then we also have perenial grasses mainly rhodes grass near the house ....... we have spent years establishing this ...... do we have to plough it in and remove it ???


    I want to sell up but dont see how we can - our little Organic haven now feels like a contaminated wasteland
     
  2. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    can anyone at least tell me if its is true tilling damages microbes ? or did I dream it !!!
     
  3. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Yes it is true. It destroys the fungal root layer your trees and shrubs work with, it destroys lots of stuff... you are introducing air, and essentially oxidizing the soil.

    I hate to be the one to say it, but I remember a thread on these forums about someone else contaminated in Oz and was suing because his organic farm had its organic claims removed forever. =:)(
     
  4. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Thanks Pakanohida at least we know not to till

    We arent Certified so we have no grounds to sue anyone anyway ......... it is just another "kick in the head" .........

    We wont be using any manure from off property anymore but the worrying part is what if the contamination came from the feed her horses ate ? I buy chemical free hay for my milkers but sometimes feed the males conventional hay and all get conventional grain ......... this stuff may well be in all of it

    I cant find anywhere to get testing
     
  5. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Ask around a University or perhaps an Agri extension service (not sure if you have the last one in Oz)?
     
  6. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    I give this a bump .......... I was so hoping for more help with this ............
     
  7. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    All I can offer is a silent prayer for you Frosty. And a sincere wish that it doesn't happen to anyone else....
     
  8. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    I am sorry too for your plight frosty. The story is one I had not heard and it makes me shudder to think these things can happen. Is the whole property affected? It came to men that you could till the hell out of the area and dump bio teas on the area - increasing the good bacteria and fungi and these things will work for you to dismiss the pathogens.
    Look for the work of Paul Taylor and Stamets.
    From reading the article it seems that time helps - if you have that! I feel for you and the position you have been placed in and all I have to offer is the hope that nature has thwe answer and will let you know.
    Was it Fouoka (bad spelling) that said " If you don't know what to do - do nothing"
    regards Mark
     
  9. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Thanks Eco

    Mark luckily it is only the areas we have been tying to turn into grass pasture for the goats ........ so the goats stay in their night yards or go up into next doors bush ( they have a job clearing it to mitigate the fire risk )

    I am still confused by the tilling thing ....... if we till ( I take that to mean rotary hoe ? ) wont that diminish the microbes ?

    we did buy some Vitec combo ( kelp fertiliser ) to put on there to feed the microbes but that has stalled while we find a way to to put it out ........ it seems fertigator may be the best option....... still working on where to get one ! so yes in essence so far we are taking Foukoka (bad spelling) advice ........ while reading the real estate for sale and trying to work out if we can possibly sell up and move

    This has enormous implications for anyone who brings in manure or compost ........ or has any sort of stock they buy in feed for ......... we now know the property the horses live on was not sprayed - the contamination came from the hay or feed they ate and is still active after passing through them !!! Dow say it is not bioaccumulative - YEH ??? - I cant see how if my goats eat the grass grown in the contaminated manure the stuff wont then go through them .......... isnt that being bioaccumulative ?????

    to me this is very scary stuff .........here will it end ????????
     
  10. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    My take is that if you do till (rotary hoe) and it solves the contamination problem, but destroys some microbes then yo can reinfest the area with microbes using activates teas, BD 500 and, as suggested by barefootrim some time ago, kicking over a drum of soil and water solution from good soil.

    But I am not sure how destructive the occasional tilling is if necessary and if it will do the job for you.
     
  11. TheEdibleForest

    TheEdibleForest Junior Member

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    Hi Frosty,

    we got nailed with this one too, about three years ago. Still have problems growing solenaceae...

    The MSDS indicates that aminopyralids are fundamentally non-biodegradable, but are mobile in soil. Those sites that suggest that it can be composted away are probably only really seeing leaching out of the test patches they've set up.

    If you have decent sub-soil, you may see it disappear over time, just by being washed out of your soil (into your neighbour's no doubt).

    I doubt tilling will have any effect, beyond helping the leaching along.

    We have no sub soil (topsoil straight on sandstone) and not much drainage, so I don't see us getting rid of it any time soon...

    On a positive note, last summer I found that liberal application of aerated compost tea (as per the methods in "Teaming with Microbes" reguarly helped things along mightily. If I managed to do it every two weeks all went swimmingly. Any longer and the tomato leaves would start to curl again - immediate application of tea would save the plant and crop, but the affected foliage would die regardless. The plant would produce new leaves and fruit at this point. In previous years they would just die. Plants that I did not hit with the tea died, just as in previous years.

    Gee, I love multinationals.

    Cheers,

    Les
     
  12. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Thanks EdibleForest althought it certainly isnt good news but best to know :(

    we are on dep black sand ....... plenty of room to leach but it will finish up in our groundwater ......... then I guess get redistributed on the soil by watering
     
  13. abdullah

    abdullah Junior Member

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    i recently got into a local comunity garden, was blessed with a decent sized plot that's been fallow for a year, was planning to get a ute load of horse manure to get things going... now im reconsidering... in fact worried about manure/straw altogether... :(
     
  14. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    everyone should be !! the only safe manure or hay/straw is Cert Organic

    it needs a massive outcry against the use of his stuff ! but most people will continue to bury their head in the sand
     

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