American Psychosis: What happens to a society that cannot distinguish between reality

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    The sane Sarah?
    https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/10/sarah-palin-arizona-shooting-fallout

    https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/soci...and-of-alienated-patriots-20110111-19mmi.html
    One is their militancy. At some of their rallies, Tea Party members pump fists and yell ''USA, USA''. When the struggle is viewed as being between patriots and non-patriots, it is a short step to picturing opponents as enemies. The fervour of their patriotism should not disguise their alienation from their own society, its big cities, its pluralism, its dynamism. The people these patriots are being urged to take their country back from are other Americans. Tom Tancredo, a former congressman, told a cheering Tea Party rally that voters who could ''not even spell the word vote or say it in English'' put a ''socialist ideologue'' Barack Hussein Obama (it seems mandatory in the Tea Party to stress the President's middle name) into the White House.
     
  2. Chief Cloudpiler

    Chief Cloudpiler Junior Member

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    Top Dog

    Let's see. When the Dutch had economic predominance, they toppled and the world economy with them. They did not cease to exist. When the English inherited the prime, they toppled and the world economy with them. The English are still around. Then the baton passed to the U.S., and they are toppling, with very likely the same results in the whole world economy - and if you think Australia is going to avoid it, well ...

    China will likely move into the Top Spot and I see no leadership there that will change the world. The psychosis then is not American and a smug study of the present crisis will yield no new data. The world is simply following precisely the same path it always has. There's more stuff and more destruction of soil, water and air, but all the rest of the parameters are identical.

    There's a lovely quote from my cousin Chief Sealth. I hope I do not offend by reminding you that he was and his people were unique in America. They were not conquered by an invading race. Notwithstanding, he sold his homeland and the freedom of his people for almost literally nothing. A handful of coin. With a kiss on the cheek he condemned an entire people.

    Scapegoating is intellectual laziness. We may observe all the failed systems around the world with this focus and learn absolutely nothing. I thought our focus was supposed to be observation of systems that work.
     
  3. aslanded

    aslanded Junior Member

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    word.

    On that note, I'm living almost entirely from my garden at the moment. We discovered giant Japanese radishy things yesterday, the size of rock melons. I thought for sure it would be woody or something but they are sweet and almost pulpy on the inside with a mild radish hotness in its skin. They self sowed. They grow so well and easily in such volumes I'm sure I could make alcohol from them to use as fuel. I've also discovered the miracle of comfrey and its going everywhere I have a boggy or hard to mow patch. You can cut it back up to five times a year for fertiliser plus all the medical benefits...
     
  4. SueUSA

    SueUSA Junior Member

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    It's not really just American, it's worldwide. Monkey see, monkey do.

    Sue
     
  5. Yukkuri_Kame

    Yukkuri_Kame Junior Member

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    I guess you are talking about Daikon? Large white radish, conical shape? They are a staple for the Japanese (which includes my wife). They are good raw, pickled, steamed, sauteed or in soups...pretty much hard to go wrong. Cooked they will lose their spiciness, but keep the sweetness. They are in the cruciferous family, and have some of the same anti-carcinogenic properties as broccoli. The leaves are usually steamed or put in soup...sometimes pickled.

    On my sister's property in Los Angeles, California, I noticed leaves that looked like daikon all over the place...hundreds, if not thousands...little four-petaled yellow flowers that are the hallmark of cruciferous veggies... turned out to be a type of wild mustard... the root tasted like a cross between horseradish and daikon... looked daikon-ish, but with more branching roots. Leaves were very tasty, though they had a strong wild, green taste. The florets tasted like broccoli with a mustard flavor. The root was very fibrous.

    Anyway, point is, this family can be very vigorous and self-seed itself well, even in dessert climates. Fukuoka used daikon in his 'seed balls', knowing that once the seeds got out there, they would do their thing with minimal intervention.

    Back on topic, while many americans think the tea partiers are nuts, the vast majority of americans are acutely aware that our country has been completely hijacked by criminals, which is the main point of the tea party, once you get past the gun-waving.
     
  6. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    A move to the extreme right is not going to solve any problem.
    The country whole economic system requires the theft of weaker poorer nations resources to be pumped into it and allow the middle class to live beyond their means.
    The American Dream was the ultimate carrot at the end of the stick. To be used to control the world through desire for stuff.All it required was an artificially wealthy American Middle class to be filmed and played in everyones lounge room. Then Monkey see monkey want to do.
    Unfortunately the credit card bill has come in and the reality bomb of finite resources has started to play out.
    The tea party movement is the knee jerk reaction of the slowly dying middle class trying to hang onto the past delusions.
    We are witnessing an end of empire and the death of an unsustainable economic model.
     
  7. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Looking at these responses i'm thinking maybe civilisations follow a Hubbert's curve and the psychosis is a product of the curve, not the country.

    You start, then rise to fame expotentially, then peak (where you think you can do no wrong), then start to fall (but still think your at the peak - thus the "psychosis"), then you fall.

    Like Egypt, Athens, Rome, Spain, England and dozens in between. Does this make sense?
     
  8. Yukkuri_Kame

    Yukkuri_Kame Junior Member

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    That curve is the subject of every greek drama: 'hubris leads to nemesis'. Yes, it still makes sense 3,000 years later.
     
  9. Nain Dejardin

    Nain Dejardin Junior Member

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    I have enjoyed reading everyone's input in this thread and I agree whole heartedly to the notion that if we are going to blame countries.. we are all to blame. But, the stereotyping of a nation's people, although accurate from a wide perspective, becomes very blurry when you take a closer look. The province I live in has been fueled by the oil industry for many many years.. it has grown pompous at its own reflection.. somewhat how we feel the US has become... BUT, there IS change my friends. Enough to encourage this opinionated urban farmer. There are great works coming from individuals, small groups, communities etc that resonates the change in all of your respective countries. Amazing pioneers such as Michael Reynolds of Earthship Biotecture is one of my favorite encouragements.. they are building communities in the US and homes in Canada (even with our stupid -30C winters!!)
    We are at the right place in the right time to critically affect the entire planet with mediums such as Facebook and forums such as these.. I do not recognize political boundaries so much anymore. As far as I am concerned, you, my like minded friends, are part of the community that I choose to dwell in.

    Cheers!
     
  10. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    The USA has some of the best and worst things- and people- in the world.
    It is very upsetting to see the way it is going now. Today the Republicans repealed Obama's health care bill and last week gave tax cuts to the rich.
    The periodic ( seems ever few months or a school shoot up) gunning down of prominent citizens( apart from the 60-80 ordinary people a day killed with hand guns).
    The loony right epitomised by Sarah Palin, spreading their hate and divisive vitriol.
    The huge number of people in jail.
    Keeping the peace by starting wars.
    It seems such a divisive intolerant country from where I sit; and my country is not too tolerant either.
    free speach but lets kill Julian Astrange.
    Riches yes, but let's have some of the poorest in the world too; with and the worst social security system.while fencing off rich communities with armed guards
    Christian Charity but lets stop Muslims, burn their books stop them building churches
    Science and education some of the best and then 60% who believe in literal biblical world history.
    So much beaut science, yet so much corrupted by the profit motive.
    The devastation of the environment by chemicals and plastic.

    It is a nation of amazing contrasts--good and bad-- I just don't understand why you can't look after your own people? Keeping them safe and well.

    I have a Canadian friend and we both just despair at the economic, religious and scientific, fundamentalism coming out of a county that Should be a leader in all these. Is it surprising that many see the USA as a mentally ill county?
    You seem to have settled for mediocrity in so many if not all things, when you had/have better choices.
     
  11. DonHansford

    DonHansford Junior Member

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    We are in a temperate climate, and we cut our comfrey about 5 times a month when it rains - it is truly an embarrasment of surplu
    s
     
  12. Chief Cloudpiler

    Chief Cloudpiler Junior Member

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    We, the whole world, are all one Relation. It is unproductive for anybody to sit and examine their neighbor to expose, or even understand, all their faults. There is not a nation on this planet that can claim immunity to the problems we all must face together, and if we do not face them, we all perish together, period. Planetary citizens will do well to drop the scapegoat list making and get back to changing the ground they walk on, the neighborhood they live in, the little patch of the World Economy they have impact upon. Enough of us with eyes turned inward, instead of gazing intently, disappointed, discouraged, angry, eager to blame, ... across the fence, be it the fence of their rich neighbor, or the fence surrounding the slum on the outskirts of town, or the subsidized Indigenous Housing Project set where nobody can see it. The list you make of the best and the worst in America, and your lamentation with your Canadian friend accomplishes exactly what? It is equally and precisely applicable anywhere in the world. Unless you don't drive a car, don't ever shop in town, don't ever eat out of a bag, bottle, box, or can, you are living the American Dream, sustaining it, subsidizing it. Your feelings and frustrations aside, it is just as psychotic to blame your neighbor for problems we all cause. it is not American Psychosis, it is Human Psychosis.
     
  13. aslanded

    aslanded Junior Member

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    Nicely put cloud man.

    It's not like we went out and built paolo soleri type sustainable cities here in aus. We sprawled and became the most suburban nation in the world, squandering all the cheap energy on short term infrastructure. Everyone knew where the world was headed in the 1970s but the west chose decadence and short term affluence. The baby boomers took control and feathered their own nests nicely and have left future generations the bill to pick up. It's one of the flaws in the democratic system.

    The interesting question though is where the world is headed now that China is the unofficial world leader, and how Australians will choose to embrace the new opportunities or threats this will bring. China lent more money to third world countries last year than the IMF. To the best of my knowledge the African nations it is operating in are doing better than when the west was in charge, with new infrastructure supplied by the Chinese. As I see it we can turn on each other like a pack of dogs blaming each other for our decline and mistakes or we can learn to live in a world that is not controlled by western enpires and consolidate our culture.
     
  14. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    But to further judge others - the Chinese are building a lot of this infrastructure in the third world to take their coal and oil resources - not some big humanitarian scheme to actually feed the poor.

    And for what it's worth examining others and learning from their mistakes does help us learn the language to create a sustainable future.
     
  15. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Sorry if I have sounded whiny, wingy or super critical. i know yanks are super patriotic and take any criticsm of their country personally.
    I guess it is like having a good friend who has all the advantages in the world and is making a dog's dinner of it.
    It is just upsetting and very disappointing.
    Also, the USA has such a huge cultural influence world- wide especially in English speaking countries that we need to guard against importing some of the more destructive aspects of Yank culture into our own.
     
  16. aslanded

    aslanded Junior Member

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    The derogatory term yank doesn't really help things. its no better than nip, wog, chink etc.

    This article is interesting re the China Africa thing
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/65916/deborah-brautigam/africa’s-eastern-promise
    when has any nation not helped out another without a vested interest? Some just take more than they give back which is what happens when we let our multi nationals loose on the world unchecked.

    Pointing out the obvious problems in the US and gloating isn't really helping anyone. Its not like we need to learn not to let a military industrial complex hijack our country and take it to perpetual war by manufacturing domestic terror...and we already suffer from having industry tied too closely to government, just on a smaller scale. If you want to learn lessons why isn't anyone pointing out all the great things happening in the US?

    WWW.arcosanti.org
    Google "democracy now"

    I'll post more later.
     
  17. Chief Cloudpiler

    Chief Cloudpiler Junior Member

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    Imported Non-Sustainability

    I challenge anyone who lives in any of the developed nations of the world to make a list of the parts of their consumer culture they have not ALREADY gleefully imported from the United States, and that they will not willingly collaborate with China to ensure that consumerism remains alive and well into the twenty-first and second century.

    If you think Australia has made so much more progress in dismantling the Consumer Culture, I would like to see it. Photos would be helpful, but I can tell you, we "Yanks" will match and exceed your "proofs" item for item. We have a whole lot more people working on the problem per capita, and yet we are visibly, provably failing our own future. Your pockets of activity will mirror ours, and England's, and Canada's, and France's.

    It is not a question of "being careful not to import...." you already have, unless you think your culture still looks like the Victorian era Au. of our grandparent's generation. Psychosis? We (the whole world) has gobbled up these good times as if we in all the history of the human experience are the only generation truly capable of preventing societal collapse. That is where the true psychosis lies. If our observation can wiggle its way out of its own squatting, squinting, self-interest, we would see that "observing" one state or another is about as useless to the solution as studying one cloud is to figuring anything out about storm systems, or one tree to discovering the nature of diversity of species in natural systems. Way too narrow a view, to narrow minded.

    I am Native Indigenous American, so folks, I don't offend easily when it comes to bashing the U.S. of A. There's a whole lot of collective water under that bridge. But I'll tell you, I get hinky when I hear people from other countries try to assert that the U.S. is the source, the reason, to be blamed, and to be vilified at every turning, for the disaster the whole world faces together. Nobody plugged your noses and poured the red coolaid down your throats. They don't keep you coming back for more now that you think you see the looming bigger picture.

    "Yank" is the same as "Indian." It's just a symptom of an escapist, transference of personal responsibility. The English and the French taught a few "red savages" the fine art of scalping, and agreeably, the art caught on and flourished. Now, Hollywood has effectively taught the world that the "Red Savage Indian" originated the idea. The U.S. came out of WW2 as the economic leader of the world. Industrialism (which got its start in England) took of and flourished in the U.S. Now the world wants to make sure that everybody understands that the Consumer Culture originated here. I see real parallels here. This is the very nature of "Transference Syndrome", a diagnosable Mental Illness. It is something of a defense mechanism that nobody really understands and that provides no "defense."
     
  18. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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  19. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    Let's not forget that there are some of us that feel an illegal regime has been running the country and that there hasn't been anything legal done in this country since the civil war.
     
  20. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day All

    Concerning nationalist chest-beating and flag-waving, there is nothing good that can come from denigrating another's nation. Of the examples of bad, fascism springs to mind.

    All the nearly 7-billion persons of the world are contributing to Earth's demise - some in a big way, some small. But whichever way you crunch the numbers, we (affluent and less affluent alike) are all in a race to the bottom. Ignorance is the culprit, both of the willful and the benign variety. Universal and secular education is the only way forward if we are to survive as a species. Permaculture is one effective platform for delivering this education. We know the cure, now all we need do is take the medicine.

    Concerning Chief's comments, I do feel I should contest the following point, because I think it is here that he is falling into the all-to-easy trap of 'we' verses 'them':

    If by 'we', Chief is referring to the USA people, and 'per capita' as being a representative body that contains 'a whole lot more people working on the problem', and the comparative is AUS people, and 'the problem' could be considered to be, say for example, anthropogenic climate change, then I believe we find according to this study it is in fact the other way around.

    No matter, the future of our species will not be secured through the actions of one person, one tribe, or one nation trying to take precedence over another through belittling and scapegoating. The future of our species will, and can only ever be secured when we, the people of the globe move forward as a collective body of 'top down thinking and bottom up action' (see: Holmgren, 2002, p. 15-16). Seems like an impossible task, I agree. But, and like I have previously said, advancing permaculture is one way of achieving this goal, another is through pursuing the social ecology project - actually, both are one in the same.

    Cheerio, Markos.

    Holmgren (2002) Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability
     

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