Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Michaelangelica, Dec 12, 2010.
I am not going to a doctor anytime soon on the strength of that.
That raises an interesting point... a sustainable future for me means more "ups" than "downs" but i don't think we are capable of a utopia, there are too many ideas as to what utopia is. At least the current uproar and dismay indicates that the current (ok, slightly uneducated) generation cares.
I got sat down at a table in late 2004 and got told not to owe any money in 2008-2009 as it was all going to hit the fan and no one knew exactly what the effects were going to be.
I think that we ignore our own concience (i'm doing some defence work at the moment and a lot of the people i work with find it frustrating that we don't just shoot and sink the boats before they get to Christmas island) as a country and every time we see big ticket bad news (war, shootings, etc) a lot of them get reported from the US and it is very frustrating - so i can understand that there would be a lot of ppl going "ha,ha,ha"- some of the people i work with risk their lives to rescue these boat people and in the process get coated in spit and humanure so i get their "shoot first" mentality.....
I guess what I am trying to say is "what did you expect"
so teach your childeren well.
I appreciate your words. Still, around the world we Americans hear ourselves denigrated. England is a 100% net importer of food. Did America do that to them? Sweden, France, Italy, Germany, and the list of European Nations that are net food importers goes on and on, are in the same boat. I suspect that because most of that food is imported from the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Brazil and Argentina means that Americans are somehow to be blamed for their ensuing critical misfortune. I'm sick and tired of this kind of rhetoric. I don't think it has a place in a movement that ought to see the peoples of the world as "All My Relations."
I understand you shouldn't tar a whole country with the same brush but i know a lot of people who "dislike" Americans simply because they claim copyright to "waltzing Matilda" (issued 40 plus years after it was written), "Ugg" boots is another one. Then you have Monsanto - another great American company, US anti terrorism laws - the list of rediculous goes on and on. Then you have a lot of the world riding on the US dollar and people deliberately sabotage it with such little care as to what effects it will have simply so some business ppl can become politicians and get good tax breaks - It's not your fault or the general populations either but i can see why you get denigrated. - What did you expect?
What I expect is beside the point I think, I hope. What is the point is whether the world is in the state it is in right now because of the United States, and why U.S. policy is considered "Psychosis" where the same policy around the world is not. What part of the U.S. Economy, Culture, Tradition, Language, Society, ad nauseum, did not come from Europe or Asia? If it is the standard for normal world wide, then I think we should be considering the more general "Global Psychosis," instead of scapegoating one country or another. I am always reminded that without the Bank of England there would be no U.S. Dollar, and without Bayer there would be no Monsanto. We all have the same responsibility going forward.
On the topic of 'psychosis':
The Oxford Dictionary defines psychosis thus:
Originally: any kind of disordered mental state or mental illness. Later: spec. severe mental illness, characterized by loss of contact with reality (in the form of delusions and hallucinations) and deterioration of intellectual and social functioning, occurring as a primary disorder or secondary to other diseases, drug ingestion, etc.; an instance of this.
In this sense, I suggest that the use of the term in the OP is indeed an apt descriptor. However, and like you it would seem, I too support the contention that any deluded state present as a percentage of humanity knows no geographic boundaries.
Take the following common delusional belief that occurs in many countries/cultures of the world as an example:
Young Earth Creation (YEC) - the basic premise that the universe is approximately 6,000 to 10,000 years old (1) - exists despite a huge body of scientific evidence supporting the contention that the universe is in fact 13.7 billion years old (2).
According to a Gallop Poll, '4 in 10 Americans believe in strict creationism' (3). Whereas in Australia, the figure is closer to 2 in 10: 'nearly a quarter of us believe the biblical account of the origin of human beings over the Darwinian account taught in schools and universities' (4). In the UK, the figure is about the same as Australia 'with at least 22% preferring the theories of creationism or intelligent design to explain how the world came about' (5).
So, and even though the figures may differ between the affluent nations you have earlier referred to, we can quickly see from the above that psychosis does not discriminate based on geographical location.
(1) See, for example: https://www.yecheadquarters.org/
There you go. So, I hope we can all agree that we as a planet, notwithstanding the crazy nations we happen to live in, share an equal responsibility to make the place safe for our grandchildren.
Hi, I'm an Aussie married to a north American, and I've been over a few times and always enjoyed it. I've got a permaculture farm happening in tassie and I'm very much on the page of this global economic doom. However to say it is the fault of 'Americans' is entirely unfair. The American people are no more to blame for the rogue corporations operating on their soil than Aussies are for Rupert Murdoch, the uranium and coal sales we all live in comfort from, or the genocide we profited from to gain our country.
Unfortunately for the people of the united states it is the corporate and military exploits which the rest of the world sees of their country, not the wonderful warm hearted people. If you think the corporations have had a.negative impact on your life in aus, be grateful you aren't being raped by them in the states. The American people are trapped under an oppressive regime, which has taken every bit of wealth out of their nation for generations to come. You must separate this notion of 'Americans' from multinational corporations. Trust me aussies have no leg to stand on when it comes to greed and selfishness. We are all in this together and the people of the world need to be lead by positive action not ignorant finger pointing at the victims
in addition to this...
Man you guys really hit a nerve!
The underlying moral superiority and smugness expressed here and by aussies in general will be our undoing. For some reason the fact that we have so far survived this global downturn unscathed is seen as some reason to congratulate ourselves on our greatness and too look down our noses at the less fortunate countries who weren't as clever as us. here's some news people, it is only because China is buying our coal and steel that we are still sitting pretty. our housing bubble is just as bad and as soon as China slows down and the internationalss start selling Aussie real estate it could drop 45%but this isn't the point.
if you think we have more control over our democracy count the number of days it took the mining industry to remove the most popular prime minister in our history once he threatened to distribute their profits more equally amongst Australians.
When i indicated that the GFC was a choice i just ment that someone over there thought it would be great to offer government secured loans with an awesome honeymoon period to get people in homes of their own and win popular support - what did they think would happen when the honeymoon was over and around 10% of all the houses in America came back onto the market?
Yes we have big business plundering the country side and pushing politicians around in Australia but the GFC was caused by politicians.
The point that ought to be taken here, I think, and forgive me if I overstep, is that there is an undercurrent of psychosis in the "Culture" of modern consumerism. I have to agree that the United States is the posterchild for that particular issue, although I don't think we are alone in that effort to lay waste the entire planet. The psychosis is not grounded in any People, however.
Neither Americans nor Australians have control over the course of their greater society except with their buying power. The corporations have been well trained in this concept over the past, at least, 1500 years, and have responded with a very effective means of making sure that the masses (asses) always need the goods upon which Corporate Culture thrives. I know many a Psychologist who would look at our puny efforts to change that culture to one of Sustainability and call us psychotic. No matter.
I don't buy this point. kevin O7 brought his demise on himself. If he wasn't such a P...k to work for, he would have got to stick around longer. Over and over and again you hear the negative side of working with kevin and the way he doesn't get things done. I'd much rather have Julia in the seat though i admit, i haven't been following the news too closely lately so i don't really know if she's doing a good job or not but I am sure she's better than Kevin.
I don't know Kevin or Julia personally and I've never worked for either of them. I also don't read the Herald-Sun or watch Today-Tonight so it is difficult for me to judge. If I were asked to state my opinion I would say, I don't think there is much doubt that the Super-profits tax was Kevin's ultimate undoing and the reason he lost office. On the other-hand I think the reason he lost popularity is because he went soft on the things he was elected on - climate change for one.
There isn't really much leadership in politics these days, mostly they just follow the lead. There isn't much leadership in community these days, mostly people just follow the lead. If you want to change things then it is really up to you as an individual to take the reins. Be the change you wish to see, don't wait for the world of politics to change it for you, or you will be waiting a very long time...
The point is this form of "culture" originated in the US and has been virgorously exported through TV movies and any other way they could find to the rest of the world. Rabid capitalism and growth economics need an ever increasing market of brainwashed consumers and the US has lead the way ......... true Australians have dutifully followed but some of us are still trying to maintain our sanity !!!!
Your chief Seattle quote there frosty is American, as is probably 90% of the music you listen to. The culture the US gave us wasn't all bad and its not like we had much going on here before it. We are a practical nation but pretty dull creatively. The best we can do is cherry pick culture from the rest of the world. In fact we owe a huge debt for so much greatness that has come out of that nation. The fact that we are communicating now is an obvious example. I'm also pretty sure I could match anything bad the US has dine with something bad the English have done...but its pointless.
As for keven 07. My biggest frustration is he, like obama, inherited a nation on the brink of economic ruin. Personal debt has propped our nation up for years. He busted his nuts taking us to Copenhagen to try to get some climate results and no one else came to the party. We then listened to all the bullshit the oposition who had no party and no policy other than shit talking kev. But the nation bought it...and we even blamed him for trying too hard. We are a wishy washy nation of sheep, scared of being different, paranoid about being not liked and way too critical of everyone else. Let's see how this attitude serves us moving forward. One nation has to be dominant in the world, personally I'd prefer it was the US, for all its faults. Go through all the countries in your head and try to pick a better one.
That is what happens to a country poisoned on false Gods, worshipping mammon and eating industral food...everything becomes tasteless, worthless and riddiculous after a time. Since the rest of the world is heading down the same track...America is good to study as the test case for the destruction of civilization. Will the body of the rest of the world save itself from the same malignancy? We only have 50 years to find out.
I agree with all you say (pretty much) except for the above comment. I do not support the notion that domination - by nation over nation, individual over individual, group over group, humans over non-humans, etc. - is the way forward. Rather, as a form of socio-political organisation, I support communalism:
One individual, working outward towards a mutually rewarding (socio-ecological) relationship with one's family unit, one's neigbourhood, one's community, one's bioregion, one's continant, one's planet.
Yesterday i saw a scientist say very convincingly on tv that he had a gut feeling that intelligent life forms such as ours may be destined to self-destruction, thus he didn't think it likely that there could be many other existing planets out there with intelligent life forms. I am not sure that i have got this right but I do believe he is right about tendency for human intelligence to be self-destructing. Compare with animals, who are simply incapable of destroying the planet. You have to be smart enough to make stuff .
I don't know about the timing of it, but i do believe we (the human race) won't be here forever and I don't think we can help ourselves. Human character is too selfish and too greedy and there is no benevolent God force to rescue us.
In the grand scheme of things, I find it hard to blame all that's wrong with the world on the Americans. Americans didn't start capitalism. They just took it to its next level. I agree with whoever said we're too negative and critical about other cultures. I am glad to be an aussie but we can be a bit smug. When i go to India, its really difficult not to pick the place apart even though there's so much to love about the place. I think most cultures are guilty of finding home better than elsewhere and doing the comparison thing.
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