My thoughts and opinions on Climate Change

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Earth's Internet, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Sorry, the '1.7' figure actually applies to the average number of cars per Australian household (I probably shouldn't have opened that bottle of red so early). As for the average number of people, it's 2.6 per household - on an average lot size of, as you suggest, 750 sqm - this makes for an unsustainable residential development density, otherwise know as 'urban sprawl'. My point being, at Christie Walk, it's 40 people per 2,000 sqm. Or, in keeping with the Australian household average figure, 2.6 people per 130 sqm. A much more sustainable density, don't you think?

    As for the 'very high density' quibble: Nowhere have I ever advocated for high density residential development! In fact, I'm on the record numerous times as being a champion of Pattern 21 by Alexander et al (1977, pp. 114-119):

    Pattern 21: Four-Story Limit

    There is abundant evidence to show that high buildings make people crazy.

    High buildings have no genuine advantages, except in speculative gains for banks and land owners. They are not cheaper, they do not help create open space, they destroy the townscape, they destroy social life, they promote crime, they make life difficult for children, they are expensive to maintain, they wreck the open spaces near them, and they damage light and air and view. But quite apart from all of this, which shows that they aren’t very sensible, empirical evidence shows that they can actually damage people’s minds and feelings.

    The strongest evidence comes from D.M. Fanning (“Families in Flats,” British Medical Journal, November 18, 1967, pp.382-86). Fanning shows a direct correlation between incidence of mental disorder and the height of people’s apartments. The higher people live off the ground, the more likely are they to suffer mental illness. And it is not simply a case of people prone to mental illness choosing high-rise apartments. Fanning shows that the correlation is strongest for the people who spend the most time in their apartments. Among the families he studied, the correlation was strongest for women, who spend the most time in their apartments; it was less strong for children, who spend less time in the apartments; and it was weakest for men, who spend the least amount of time in their apartments. This strongly suggest that sheet time spent in the high-rise is itself what causes the effect.

    A simple mechanism may explain this: high-rise living takes people away from the ground, and away from the casual, every-day society that occurs on the sidewalks and streets and on the gardens and porches. It leaves them alone in their apartments. The decision to go out for some public life becomes formal and awkward; and unless there is some specific task which brings people out in the world, the tendency is to stay home, alone. The forced isolation then causes individual breakdowns.

    More recently, there is the evidence brought forward by Oscar Newman in Defensible Space. Newman compared two adjacent housing projects in New York – one high-rise, the other a collection of relatively small three-story walk-up buildings. The two projects have the same overall density, and their inhabitants have roughly the same income. But Newman found that the crime rate in the high-rise was roughly twice that in the walk-ups.

    At three or four stories, one can still walk comfortably down to the street, and from a window you can still feel part of the street scene: you can see details in the street- the people, their faces, foliage, shops. From three stories you can yell out, and catch the attention of someone below. Above four stories these connections break down. The visual detail is lost…

    Therefore:

    In any urban areas, no matter how dense, keep the majority of buildings four stories high or less. It is possible that certain building should exceed this limit, but they should never be building for human habitation.


    Cheerio, Markos
     
  2. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day All

    One final contribution, if you please...

    I realise that we have gone way off topic, and to the OP (Kevin), I apologise for my part in this.

    However, I could not leave you all on this beautiful night/day without at least passing on to you, dear friends, the following link to a delightful little (and free) book on the subject of Australia's obsession with low density urban living:

    Nelson (2011) The Space Wasters: The Architecture of Australian Misanthropy

    Cheerio, Markos

    PS: If you have an aversion to anything that might resemble a UN plot to dominate the world - aka Agenda 21 - you may find reading the above a little scary. Personally, I found it highly amusing.
     
  3. Ochu

    Ochu Junior Member

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    I feel ya unmutual. I have a brother in law who says things such as " I don't recycle because I don't believe in global warming." I fight the urge not to respond, at the same time I feel my blood pressure rise, and a blood vessel in my brain begins to weaken. On a more personal not, I look in the mirror and realize I'm no better. I drive a car to work, I use electric to heat my house, We buy food from big ag, wrapped in plastic. I strive to correct these wrongs, but it is proving difficult. One day I hope to stop being part of the problem.
     
  4. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    You know, that would explain a lot of the actions from CEO's and other upper management.
     
  5. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Yeah but it doesn't explain our Politicians, those buildings aren't all that tall. So does this mean they are all naturally crazy in Washington? :D
     
  6. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Isn't that what Esau said to Jacob ? No wait, that was "Give me some of the Red!" *smile*

    That link was interesting and has some good ideas, of course like anything, they need to be tailored for every area and available to ALL peoples, not just folks with the money and means to build such infrastructure. I don't think there is enough time either with the runaway train wreck called climate change. The natural mechanisms took centuries to build and imperfect human scientific ingenuity took less than 100 years to destroy it. Over here in Sweden that is their opinion, that the majority of folks be housed like cattle in comfortable human livestock paddocks called 8 to 10 story generic functional apartment buildings, while any need for room will be met by the government through the providing of city parks. Here's the major problem to that. Rich people (business leaders, politicians, etc) here in Sweden don't live and play by the same rules as they create and force the average citizen to live by. They want large private land parcels, large mansions, top of the line Automobiles, etc. I remember when I first moved here, my opinion of how eco-green Sweden was deflated my first year. Folks here are no more eco-green than any other country. I think probably Switzerland is still on top, but I haven't visited there since 1976. (I'm sure I'd be disappointed).

    Europe has always had this obsession with controlling what its people do and it's irrelevant what form of government we're talking about, whether it be a Tribal Clan Leader, ruling Monarch(Emperor, King Queen, etc), Dictator, Democracy, Communism, socialism. None of the leadership practices what they preach. So the people will never totally by into the program unless forced. When I first moved here, the Prime Minister or Present (whatever their leader is called here) was a die-hard tax and take everything from the rich and redistribute it equally to the poor) Socialist. His wife was in charge of Systembolgat which is Sweden's government run Liquor monopoly. Both he and his wife are filthy rich. They purchased a several million dollar mansion and estate outside of Stockholm in the country. Of course their enemies fired and blasted them for this. The excuse however given for such an extravagant lifestyle was that they were very important people and needed such accommodations because they need to entertain world dignitaries and other leaders from other countries. In fact when he lost his reelection in 2007 as a result of his opponent's tax breaks and write offs for business, it was later found that this extreme socialist ideologue was taking full advantage of those capitalist tax breaks and loop holes. When called on the carpet again, his excuse was that such rules applied to everyone and he was a citizen exercising his rights. So he opts for materialism over principle.

    People aren't stupid, they see this hypocrisy. I was going to write a post on the unrest happening over here on a daily basis in Europe. From what I can tell, the USA doesn't get all the News on just how bad things are here in Europe and the civil unrest going on, especially in the Mediterranean countries. On the Metro News on Monday here, the Red Cross is gearing up for food shortages and riots here in Europe. Northern Europe had lousy weather for growing things last year. Even in the wild, the usual trees and shrubs that produce fruits and berries for wildlife didn't pan out as normal. It was either very little or nonexistent. There simply isn't enough time or money to implement a Christie Walk globally even if there were enough funds and cooperation. Doesn't mean that folks as individuals should try, they should, but even companies here with eco-solutions and green innovations are creating things which are fainacially out of reach for the world's poor

    One company whose products I like is called Watreco. They manufacture a water restructuring device which works off physics. It's an awesome product, but at a cost of £15,000, it's out of reach to the average household. Mind you, that price was back in 2007 when we had a science convention held down in Malmö, but I am confident to price hasn't gone down that much

    BTW, this is interesting, just had a girl going from door to door here this evening wanting us to support Green Peace. They are pretty militant here and are desperate for more funds.
     
  7. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Here is a link to the Swedish Million Building Program. It created countless horrible looking apartment buildings. Unfortunately the climate forces most to live indoors.

    https://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Million_Programme

    I actually even wrote about some of these building and what people try and do to escape them here where they have no yard or garden. I actually have to challenge myself to find positives here. Where I come from we live life outside most of the time. Here life in mostly an indoor phenomena.

    Gardening Strategies for People Forced to Live in Socialist housing Projects


    Personally, I'd rather live in a Mongollion Yurt in a barren outback wilderness than live in one of those apartments. *sigh*
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yes EI,

    i checked out all the aforementioned links, not impressed at all that anyone will make it work on a grand scale dragging aussie' masses kicking and screaming into high and higher density living just to let the wealthy and powerful of the hook with all their excesses, bet none of them will give up their mansions and acres of lawns and gardens for the common cause hey?

    lots of land and homes for sale around where we are probably at least 2/3rds available real estate has driven the prices too high and no one wants to live here scrub country too dry and rainfall not good due to past habitat destruction by the over lords.

    council by-laws make building very difficult, lost our hardware because of them.

    don't plan on making the poorer people pay make the wealthy power mongers pay instead, sounds fair to me.

    sadly Ei modern mcmansions are not designed to lead people outside that way people don't miss the land space they need, like i say nothing under about 700+ sq meters. no room to play outside so kids all raised glued to monitors.

    reality needed not punishment for the poor.

    len
     
  9. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Whats your alternative Len?
     
  10. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Kevin

    Interesting commentary, and for the most part I agree with your views. Thanks for sharing them.

    This timeline in pictures provides an insight into the thinking behind Melbourne's experiment in high rise social housing.

    Interestingly, many people in Melbourne are today actually choosing to buy into the high rise residential lifestyle - obviously, they have not read Alexander et al.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  11. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Most of those politicians were CEO's or lawyers, so they came to washington already crazy! Once this rain goes and I get off 12 hour shifts, I'm going to have to read up on that theory. I did notice A Pattern Language was associated with it(pattern 12?..it was early in the morning, I might be wrong), so maybe it's time I actually read the book...

    Hey Len, have you thought about grouping up with those underprivileged folks and going to town hall to get land to start a community garden somewhere? I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but govt usually has land somewhere that's not used, even a parking lot can support a community garden(there are even youtube videos about it). Unfortunately it will probably require a lot of work, but you can grow on top of concrete. There's always the possibility that you'll get kicked off the land sooner or later, so try not to make anything too permanent. Even rich folk who aren't using some land can be talked into letting you borrow it(yes, it has happened at least once that I know of). You just have to have the understanding that you know the garden won't be a permanent fixture(unless, of course, you get real lucky). You just have to talk to the right people, and talk to them the right way(I don't think calling them bloodsuckers and yelling at them to be fare to the people they screwed over will get you very far, even if it might be enjoyable personally...I know I'd enjoy that).
     
  12. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day unmutual,

    from where we are now there is probably no possibility, we are 1/2 way between gympie and maryborough, that is about 30 min's at highway speeds.

    for most here it is their retirement hole in the wall and there is no real neighbourhood spirit.

    i've passed my web address out there trying to raise interest so maybe just maybe we could have a growing cartel sort of but they don't want to know, i have spare produce i share it around locally, i have spare soil we share that also so at least a couple families may improve their food gardens, never here an feed back.

    in our last suburb in the north of brissy i considered some park land that is a secondary flood plain, but with the vandalism and drug taking it was beyond me.

    we run a very tight budget to pay bills and get through each fortnight.

    politicians are tainted everywhere 'paka'.

    len
     
  13. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Unmutual

    It's not the sort of book that you pick up and read from cover-to-cover, although one can (I have, twice). Rather, it's the sort of book that takes pride of place on one's bookshelf, to be taken down and read from time-to-time, as situations arise - a bit like a bible for some, I would imagine. Either way, if there is one book that you feel you simply must read in your lifetime, then you could do a lot worse than choose this one.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    There are currently four ICs (intentional communities, in various states of development) within close proximity to you that I'm aware of:

    Coondoo Farm

    Hermitage Foundation

    Bellbunya Community

    Maleny Cohousing

    If none of these options suit, perhaps you might even consider using the above resource to start your own IC? You could call it Len's Garden.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    thansk mark,

    too far from home those links, and probably not a lot of interest for me, i am not after ego or glory so if i could get people here interested they can call it what they like. i get sorely judged by many especially in the forums as that is where i communicate or try to.

    guess the same with all the local people i have given our web site address to, they are gossiping about us we know that but no question about gardening or anything. many have wasted land 1.25 to 5 acre blocks just gardens and lawn, yes in this country the want greens type lawn. not built up by a long shot so our nearest neighbour is one block away, he has gardens in a type of shade house, the only time he shares with us is when he wants to come see what we are doing, and making sure we don't have a rooster, when we don't even have chooks. there is no community spirit here.

    anyhow have a nice one, hope those disastrous bush fires come to an end directly.

    and rain is well and truly needed, pity the wealthy manipulators have raped our habitat.

    no good blaming the little man who simply always wanted to live simply. up here people push radiata pine weeds over and burn them whilst the lumber industry pillages teh bush and worst all lumber for the chipper as far north as bundaberg as i know get road transported to the port of brisbane for chipping and shipping, that the money grubbers for you, adding more trucks on an already dangerous highway.

    len
     
  16. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    I had this question in mind when I provided you with those links:

    If there is no 'community spirit' where you currently reside, and if as you say it seems there never will be, are you prepared to move to a place where 'community spirit' already exists, or at least to a place more conducive to the building of 'community spirit'?

    Writing of 'community': I have just scanned the latest post from our new friend, 'Roy'. It would appear from the nature if the links provided, that she/he is dead set against the idea of 'community'.

    I note that you too, Len, have some reservations regarding Agenda 21. Just what exactly is the position you support? On one hand you lament the lack of 'community spirit' in the place where you currently reside, and on the other you resent a policy that at it very core was developed to help you and all other humans on the planet achieve greater 'community spirit'. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Len.

    Concerning the 'disastrous bushfires': Fire is a natural part of many Australian ecologies. While I feel for the people that lose dwellings, infrastructure, stock and even their own lives during wildfire events, I can't help but question the 'individualistic, no government is going to tell me where to live' ideology that supports the decision these same people make to continue living in fire prone areas. I have written extensively on this topic in other threads, so I'll not dwell on it here.

    Concerning the correlation between rainfall (or lack thereof) and deforestation (vis-a-vis the 'drivers of human-induced climate change'): I have recently discussed this elsewhere, too.

    As for the woodchipping of native forests: Couldn't agree with you more. However, what are we going to do about stopping it? I believe this person has the right idea.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day mark,

    no more moves for us we only just afforded this place the other option was to rent for the rest of our days, agenda 21 it is their idea of sustainability menas us little people really only own teh dirt as deep as teh grass roots and they may have liberties to remove us.

    len
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Len

    Honestly, one has nothing to fear from Agenda 21. One has a greater chance of having one's land compulsorily acquired than taken away as a direct result of Agenda 21. I might also add, one probably has an even greater chance of winning tattslotto or for that matter, being struck by lightening... but, I digress (as I am want to do).

    Here is a very easy to read document from which one can inform one's self of everything one might need to know about Agenda 21. If one - anyone - has any questions after reading it, one merely needs to ask and I will endeavour to do my best to answer them.

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    thanks mark,

    we don't gamble that take money bills and food come first, and we don't stand out in storms.

    we are stretching water at present they say maybe some rain by the end of the month, but then teh science of BOM is very unreliable of late.

    len
     
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    I heard of people praying for rain thats pretty unreliable too
     

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