A place for non-farmers in permaculture?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Ludi, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    Many or most discussions I see about permaculture talk about it as an alternative farming model, and the impression given is that everyone who wants to practice permaculture has to buy some acres and farm. Is there a place for non-farmers in permaculture?

    Interested in your thoughts. :)
     
  2. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    No, I dont think you need to have acreage to apply permaculture.

    There is concern that farmers should use permaculture principles to their farms and dont.
    Seeing as they are the ones producing the food, technically speaking, they are more than 50% right.(setting the cat among the pidgeons?) and I for one would love to encourage them to see how they can use this and begin to do so.
    Fromwhat I'm seeing and hearing, this is slowly beginning to happen but not neccessarily being called any sort of system, just individual farmers/orchardists etc deciding to give something they heard about a go-one locally has a massive worm farm they use instead of artificial ferts and from what I hear are almost beside themselves with joy at how well this fit in and the difference it has made.

    In some ways though you do need to have somewhere to grow food.
    I always thought that the purpose of permaculture was to get food growing where the people are as a first goal, making the second goal of lessening the impact humankind has on forests and other declining nature eco systems, easier to achieve.

    We have a quarter acre section, which I feel sometimes is a huge space to be working on, hell the garden feels huge.
    I know very well that this place is completely under-utilized, but on the other hand you can only do what you can do and should do it slowly step by step.

    Most farmers do not grow their own food and I have been told that dairy farmers either are discouraged from having chooks and pigs or arent allowed to by their milk company in case this encourages the spread of disease.
    I'm not sure if this is true or not, just what I remember a farmer telling me years ago when I asked him why he didnt have chooks.

    So you have a strange goings on, with people who have land not growing food and those who yearn to have land growing food wherever they can on one hand and down to earth types engaging in what was once considered flakey hippy shit on the other.
    Its a tragic comedy in some ways.

    The allotment system in England and some other European countries is still in force.
    Some people are actively encouraging those with land /estates, to free up a portion of said land for allotment type systems.
    Hugh-The River cottage man, is one doing this.

    Another system going in-funny how the ones I hear about are in England, I'm sure there must be more-a town is growing food in public places or along the front of their sections where anyone can just come along and harvest it.

    I like this idea but being on the side of a highway with not much foot traffic, I dont really know what to plant.

    Vacant lots in NY,have been turned into community gardens.
    Community gardens are popping up more and more all the time.
    Transition town groups seem to be the ones involved in this.Purplepear would be able to give more of an insight as to what they do.

    So, if you dont have alot of garden space, or you rent and the landlord does not want the yard dug up, or you live in an apartment,...how do you apply permaculture?

    One step at a time by looking at what you do have and what you can do, that can be as simple as looking at how you can reduce, recyle or reuse things to lessen consumption and waste going out the door to the landfill.
     
  3. Greyfox

    Greyfox Junior Member

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    Oh course there is, a house block even a balcony in an appartment can grow fruit and vegies the permaculture way.
    Lots of diversity is the key to this system, using wall space to grow food vertical not just on the ground, having chickens and honey or native bees, recycling and composting, mulching, worm farming, aqua-culture. There is no end to what a "Non - Farmer" can do in Permaculture. Everyone cannot afford a few acres or even want that amount of land.
    Other thoughts, look into starting a communal garden with friends and neighbours, talking to you neighbours and putting a food forest plan in place ( just one fruit tree of a different type each in a few backyards then share the crop, same with vegies each person grows something different then share the crop with each other). Grow veggies amongst flowering plants in the front garden. You can make it simple or complex as you want, Be warned Permaculture is addictive, once you start it gets under your skin and is hard to stop.
    Look on youtube type in Permaculture and see what other people have done. Go to farmers markets and talk to growers, read, look, listen and ask questions.
    Good luck.
     
  4. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    I absolutely think there's a place for non-farmers :)

    I think the idea is for the playing field to level, so to speak - so everybody knows how to grow things and make their space productive, but perhaps not so intensively that everyone owns 4000 acres.

    But simplistically, anyone can utilise some permaculture concept or another, even if you only have 1 square meter of sunlight to do it with...
     
  5. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    As important as food is, the impression one gets is that permaculture is just a way to grow food, like some kind of organic agriculture. Is there anything in permaculture for people who want to do something besides grow food?
     
  6. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    There's plenty of information that suggests that you can apply Permaculture Principles to other things.

    It seems to suggest that by producing things ourselves, we can create abundance, and we share that with others.

    So for example, we can create an abundance of relationships in community (maybe a group just like this) - and share the knowledge we collect from that with others (or trade the knowledge for other goods and services).
    We could also create an abundance of say, clothes through re-learning sewing/knitting/weaving skills - and share the excess products by giving away or trading.

    Or something closer to typical life - if you have an abundance of old clothes that you don't wear any more, giving them away to the local charity (like St Vincent De Paul here) is not dissimilar to the ideas I mention above, and you can take something out of it by going and buying cheaper, second hand clothes them too.

    Myself, I'm connecting with permaculture by deciding to re-learn as many "old world" skills as I can - starting with knitting. Maybe the next skill could be weaving? Or preserving food? So much out there. :)
     
  7. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    Thanks, sammyjo! :)
     
  8. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Some people practice permaculture on balconies. https://balconyofdreams.blogspot.com


    I'm sure you could practice permaculture in one pot on your windowsill.


    And you can practice permaculture without any land at all.
     
  9. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    https://permaculture.org.au/2010/10/27/permaculture-for-keeping-cosy/

     
  10. Tildesam

    Tildesam Junior Member

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    I've got an album here that proves such a concept. It's more than possible to achieve. (Not an overflowing fountain of food, but better than empty space.)
     
  11. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    What is a farmer? I grow stuff in my yard - am I not a farmer?
     
  12. permasculptor

    permasculptor Junior Member

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    I think that everyone should practice permaculture .Even if only to raise awareness.
     
  13. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I think of permaculture like I think of the Olympic Rings. Everything should be a loop/cycle, everything is connected.
     
  14. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Ludi

    Anyone that is actively doing anything as described (and/or related to) on the permaculture flower (see: Figure 1, below), is, in part, practicing permaculture. The tricky bit is to try and do it all at once! Obviously, and because this would be impossible to do on one's own, a connection with community is essential to the success of any fully integrated permaculture practice.

    [​IMG]

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  15. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    hmmm, I'm not sure about that Marko. I know people doing many of those things and they're not necessarily doing permaculture (irrespective of whether they use the term or not). What about design process? Ethics? Principles? Or did you mean anyone doing any of those things within a Pc framework?
     
  16. Lesley W

    Lesley W Junior Member

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    Good question Ludi.

    Even though I have only been exposed to the permaculture concepts for a relatively short period, I already find that I look at the world and my decisions completely differently. I have a very long way to go yet but some shifts in my approach are:

    * More conscious consumption: Every dollar I spend is a vote for the kind of future I want. I research more now and consider questions that were not always top of mind when I spotted yet another pair of boots I wanted :) "Will it be beneficial or detrimental to the land/the planet? Will it be beneficial or detrimental to people/my community?"
    * Sustainable communities: asking myself, even on challenging days, whether the way I'm interacting with my colleagues and community is 'sustainable' and creating a surplus. It's not always easy to be mindful but awareness and intention is a good foundation to being a positive contributor in 'caring for others'

    For now, I live in a city apartment with a way-too-shady small balcony but I figure it's still a microcosm of the bigger picture. After all I can only do my best starting with where I am (wearing sweaters more, turning the heating on less; supporting local farmers markets; growing herbs on the balcony; friendlier cleaning products; not turning lights on until I absolutely have to etc. etc. etc.)

    It's small steps so far but every bit counts and, with time and more education, I hope to become even more conscious of how I can better contribute to the kind of future I would wish for.
     
  17. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Pebbs

    Yep, as I stated:

    "Anyone that is actively doing anything as described (and/or related to) on the permaculture flower (see: Figure 1, below), is, in part, practicing permaculture... [my new emphasis in bold].

    Cheerio, Markos
     
  18. deee

    deee Junior Member

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    I think this is part of a bigger discussion we, as permies, need to have. I can see it happening with some of the stuff coming out of UK: town orchards, community allotments, reskilling workshops. I've been thinking for a while now that for those of us on smaller parcels of land (I'm on 1000 sqm, or 1/4 acre), zones 3, 4 and 5 are really a pipe dream. While I may have a couple of nut trees and some harvestable prunings for wood, I'm hardly like to have room for a woodlot, alley cropping, a house cow and a wildlife corridor. What we need are community solutions for these zones, where we share these resources. Many urban areas have space for these, what's needed is the vision and enthusiasm. And I think its here that the land-starved come into their own, as well. While I'm chasing around after my 1/4 acre, my availability to drive a community space is limited. Many community gardens are driven by one or two people who do all there gardening there. I've met several who say that their home patch is neglected. So I think a true urban or suburban permaculture design needs to look at the community for the things that zones 3-5 produce. Then we can start talking about self-reliant communities, rather than self-sufficient individuals.
    Danielle
     
  19. Lopezer

    Lopezer Junior Member

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    well i don't think so that non farmers also need to buy some acres of land just to perform perma- culture. yeah there are certain measures and rules that need to be followed if they are interested in the farming. Otherwise in the premises they are used to stay and practice this type of farming for given slot of time. if you have other information it will be highly appreciated.
     
  20. Ludi

    Ludi Junior Member

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    For my own self, since I have a brown thumb and not much good at raising livestock, I'm thinking more along the lines of useful crafts and skills. I make things for a living now, and my present business isn't really capable of being transformed into something sustainable because it uses a lot of plastics. I would rather be doing something that isn't toxic, but have not determined what it might be. One problem is so many useful and necessary items are more cheaply purchased from Walmart at this time. People in general don't want to pay much for handmade items. But still I would like eventually to be making some kinds of useful items from natural materials. My husband also makes things for a living and is interested in appropriate technology. It seems like there is a need for tools and mechanisms to reduce and eventually eliminate our dependence on harmful grid power.

    https://www.appropedia.org/Welcome_to_Appropedia
    https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
     

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