Need criticism: new garden ideas.

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by LonerMatt, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Try Reason

    Try Reason Junior Member

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    The local plant communities don't cope with exotic water regimes and soil requirements. It's environmentally damaging to pristine or relatively unchanged ecosystems to grow food crops here because most species can't adapt. Leave most of it alone and grow your food as productively as is possible I guess.
     
  2. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    Thanks mate.

    Might wait it out until the end of February. Think it's easier to start in autumn than in summer here.
     
  3. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    Thought of something else as green manure "medic clover" and its an excellent weed to have in your garden , N fixing , good in compost , great feed for chooks ect . You could green manure half your availiable space and get some food crops started on the other half .
     
  4. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    I have heavy clay soil, and I need to keep it covered with at least a shovel depth of layers of mowed weeds, well-composted manure and straw all year long. If the sun gets to it, it will seize up, or if the rain pounds it, it gets super hard. My thick, layered raised beds (no wooden sides) have been a godsend as far as saving water, absorbing fog and dew, keeping weeds down, and even faking out some mice and voles that root around underneath it.

    The thing about green manures is they had to use some of the nitrogen/nutrients in that soil, and are uncomposted greens, so until they break down (and it takes extra nitrogen to break them down over possibly 6 months or more in passive raised beds) they will actually use some of the nutrients you think your vegetables are getting until they are broken down, and THEN your veggies get the added value. They are a longer process than we are led to believe. Just tilling them in, turning them into browns, and assuming they are letting off nitrogen/potassium/phosphorus and micronutrients as soon as they are under the soil?? that is never the case, right? Even with compost. The browns can absorb water that has nitrogen dissolved in it (in the form of urea), but they aren't going to let go of it until they rot away.

    So they should either be broken down in the off season, or piled in a raised bed so they will eventually break down, or composted elsewhere with other things and moved when finished composting. Greens can heat up a compost pile very nicely, and the browns in the compost can absorb that nitrogen gas as it is released from the cells breaking down in the greens, instead of going strraight up in the air. Even if you are doing nitrogen-fixers, those pin-head sized nodules on their roots can take 6 months to break down under the best of conditions, assuming you mowed them and left the nodules under ground, plus the greens still need to break down. I absolutely rely on green manures, but they are a down-the-road method.

    compost teas, thistle teas, stinging nettle teas, manure teas, those will help right away drenched into the soil, and then covered with a good depth of mulch that is maintained all season. :)

    I get whole fields of knee-high vetches, but they aren't enough by themselves to provide everything to a hungry vegetable. I still make layers of greens and browns in my raised beds, but I always provide extra compost and composted manure, compost teas during the growing season. :)
     
  5. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    Ok, so in light of people's help, what I'm going to do is start smaller with a few goals:

    In each bed, I'll wet the ground first, and open it up a bit, then put newspaper down, wet it, then put manure (chicken) down, some mushroom compost, dried grass, manure (cows), with mulch (sugar cane or lucerne) on top. Wetting after each stage: trying to encourage things to break down.

    Bed 1 will have a few vegetable seeds (lettuce, celery, Kale) and broad bean seeds planted at the back.
    Bed 2 will have a few vegetables (Leeks, spring onions) with herbs planted at the back
    Bed 3 will have some green manure growing (comfrey or something else)
    Bed 4 will have flowers. This is the biggest bed, though!

    What do you guys think?

    I'll shape the beds so they catch water better, I've positioned them so there's always some shade each day.

    I'm concerned with my mix of materials for the beds, but that's not a given - will the mulch prevent the seeds from starting?

    Are there any recommendations I've missed?

    I'm also thinking of a small worm farm that's sealed so that mice can't get into it: any recommendations of where to get such a device (that's not Bunnings!)
     
  6. labradel

    labradel Junior Member

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    i would be cautious using comfrey as a green manure crop as it propogates by root division and there fore would simply multiply in the bed and out grow the intended veggies. comfry works much better planted in a perennial bed to be cut back and used as mulch or as compost additive. comfry can be very difficult to eradicate once it is planted
     
  7. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    Ok - so if I use Comfrey - just cut some of it out and use as a mulch or feed to worms?

    But probably don't plant a lot of it?
     
  8. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Usually it's used as an edging plant of your perennial beds. Likes it moist, semi-shaded where it's hot. You walk past, rip off a heap of leaves, throw them around, or make a tea, or use them in a compost.

    So you can have a heap of it, just where it's permanent and a no-dig area.
     
  9. labradel

    labradel Junior Member

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    sounds good to me no dig is the key
     
  10. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    I wouldn't plant comfrey in a garden: any digging (and there's always a bit in my garden) will spread it around and sooner or later there'll be a thriving, ineradicable comfrey patch and nothing else can squeeze in.
    My comfrey mostly grows by the compost and under the fruit trees.
    I didn't notice your plan to lay paper under your garden. Unless you have a hardcore running grass, I'd skip it and go straight on the ground. Paper/card can form a really impervious layer in dry climates.
    Mulch will stop seeds from sprouting. Broad beans can push through nearly anything, but you'll need to keep the mulch off areas with small seeds. watch out, birds will scratch it straight back if there's no barrier!
    In the first season, I'd plant mainly seedlings as the beds will be settling a lot.
    Watch out for 'conventional' celery, it needs loadsof water. Cutting celery is much less demanding.
     
  11. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    Right!

    Got started today, as it's humid and now pouring.

    Used a mattock (as Len suggested) and broke the ground up, not too bad), then dug around a bit and made a shallower pool (to catch water), covered in grass and sat back. Now it's pouring!!!

    To do that I broke a shovel and got 4 blisters!! The ground is SUPER compacted. I only got 1 bed (out of 3-4 I want) made before my blisters got too bad to continue! Good news, I can probably plant in the soil and build up on top (I think!).

    There's a market on this weekend, time to buy some seedlings: herbs and flowers this time!

    Broad beans I might start from seeds in a pot and transfer?

    Also: I thought about green manure: might it be worthwhile to put green manure BETWEEN garden beds so I've got stuff to turn into mulch that's improving the soil? I can start growing and get some organic matter for later!
     
  12. pippimac

    pippimac Junior Member

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    Ah, blisters. If they're bad, I'd let them calm down rather than trying to ignore them; broken blisters on broken blisters is a bit crippling! When I've had bad blisters, the best thing I've found is to STOP as soon as possible;)
    Soaking hands in warm, salty water's good, although it hurts like anything to start; dabbing with homeopathic hypericum helps too.
    I should've been clearer: broad beans (actually legumes and cucurbits generally) are best started straight in the garden.
     
  13. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day leila,

    that is most likely why the bushy remedy of peeing on blistered hands to help form callous was used, warm salty water with a tinge of colour.

    yep but don't burst blisters if you can help it that makes them worse, you can release some fluid if it is a nuisance by using a sterile needle and come in under the top layer of skin from outside the blistered area, like when a doc lances a boil or something.

    len
     
  14. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    It kept raining today, so I got to dig another bed, and put some dried grass in there.

    I'll buy some seedlings this weekend, and will order some broadbean and green manure seeds. I will also grab some manure - probably cows (although sheeps is quite cheap here) and blood and bone for the soil too. Try to nab some lucerne. Starting small with 3-4 1x1 metre beds and some green manure between them.
     
  15. Try Reason

    Try Reason Junior Member

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    You should find heaps of herbs and companion plants at the farmers market as well as a few veg. Not sure if you've discovered it yet but there's a big nursery called Plantarium which has a bit of variety for fruit and veg. For fruit trees Sunraysia Nurseries in Gol Gol has a really big and diverse variety of plants. I still order a lot of stuff from the Diggers Club website though.
     
  16. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    Yup - hitting up the farmers market for herbs, order seeds last night.

    Might cycle down to Planatarium on the weekend to see what's there. Trying to borrow a car to get some manure and mulch!

    More rain today means I can dig a third bed!

    I hope it doesn't get too sunny and dry before the weekend, so I can dig in some really cool beds.

    Excited for how this is going!
     
  17. Try Reason

    Try Reason Junior Member

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    You've struck some great weather! Looks like a few mls over the next few days and mid 20s. Pretty much perfect conditions. Don't know what the long term prognosis is though. Would expect a few more days of 35ish through March.

    Plantarium is a tad on the expensive side (in my opinion) but it is local and instant.
     
  18. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    Blisters , After shearing in the bush and learning the hard way i found nothing compares to metholated spirit for toughening up your hands fast . Relieve pressure in blisters and wet hands with metho plenty of times a day , next time you feel the soreness just before it blisters , stop and tape up your sore spots do "less sooner rather than more later " .
     
  19. LonerMatt

    LonerMatt Junior Member

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    Yup!

    Got the third bed dug today, and expanded bed 1.

    Good to know my water catching stuff is working. Bed 1 was fluffier and much wetter than the area I dug bed 2 on, which was easier (due to rain) than what I started with, but much more compacted and dry after the first 5-10 cm.

    All on the up and up!
     
  20. Try Reason

    Try Reason Junior Member

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    Nice to hear. Despite the saturation the loam should still be draining fast enough. You shouldn't get too boggy tomorrow. Because it's a fairly bare space you're going to get a tonne of thistles and other weeds growing as soon as a hot day comes along. Hopefully the only occasion you have to weed like a maniac before the mulch covers all of the space. How did you arrange the water catching depressions? Are they next to the beds?
     

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