Tree options in Permaculture

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Mirrabooka, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    One of our colleagues has raised the issue of "Permaculture Tree Favourites" having regrettable 'weed status'.

    Is Honey Locust a problem? Is the 'non pod' Honey Locust a problem? Is the timber from the 'non pod' second rate compared to the 'pod producing cultivar'? Is the 'thornless, podless' cultivar second rate for timber? Has anyone ever grown a Honey Locust? Will it grow from cuttings? Is it really 'nitrogen fixing'?

    Does Tagasaste deserve the 'weed status'?

    So many questions, so little time....
     
  2. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    G'day

    the honey locust looks to be an amazing tree for pasture but would be a problem in some places.I went to a farm yesterday in the Canberra area and he had some mature stands of honey locusts that his cattlewent absolutely mad for. He hasnt seen any weed problems but wouldn't recommend thier use in any more favouable conditions, the seeds can be distributed by the cattle dung. You could use the male, non pod tree, it does make a fantstic tree pasture with grass right to the stump that he says stays greenest the longest. As far as I know, its one of only two fabaceae that doesnt fix nitrogen. It will grow from seedling easily enough, but you will need to graft the thornless variety. The thorns are a problem and potentially dangerous. My farmer friend hasnt seen any problems with his stock, but has been worried about eye injuries and punctured tyres.

    I think the weedproblems of some of these valuble trees comes down to bad design and poor management. You should really use native nitrogen fixers if you dont have the stock you could send in to clean up any rampant seedlings. But then there are unforeseen problems, even of natives, like the Cootamundra wattle which can cross with a local variety in central victoria that makes the seed of the local variety to tough to crack for a local marsupial.

    Have you read J. Russell Smiths Tree Crops. It is fairly excellent reading available at soilandhealth.org
     
  3. Mirrabooka

    Mirrabooka Junior Member

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    Thanks Matto.

    J Russell Smith's Tree Crops is a gem.
     
  4. Kyle

    Kyle Junior Member

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    some tree legumes are great. tamarind and Inga species come to mind.
     
  5. martyn

    martyn Junior Member

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    Honey Lotus trees grow along some of the major roads in Canberra and don't seem to be a problem. we are on grass land and are using both of those, our reason is their suitability for in a fire. Wattles and most other natives we have access to here ignite really well, with both Honey Lotus and Tagga you can prune them to give you a better chance of not being affected by a fast moving grass fire. The pigs eat the pods of the honey lotus - and we have found an odd seedling appear in teh paddock - we just transplant it to where we want it. I haven't seen a taggasaste burn yet, seen places where fire has passed them by. As for weed status, we've not had that problem, but our climate may rule that one out (1000m ASL and cold temperate).
     
  6. Steve Burgess

    Steve Burgess Junior Member

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  7. Tree hugger

    Tree hugger Junior Member

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    Tagasaste was certainly weedy in my M-I-L's bush block in Sthn Tablelands, but that is the only knowledge I have of it, really.
    Inga edulis (Ice cream bean) spreads like a weed around here (Northern NSW). It only seems to be a problem within close proximity to the parent plant, but it definitely does self-seed, and it does get bigger than people might imagine.
    People are just now hearing about the hideous Giant Devil's Fig, or Tropical Soda Fountain, despite a major Weed Dept campaign re same, but, as unbelievable as it sounds, I very recently saw tomato or eggplant seedlings (can't remember which) in a local outlet that were actually grafted onto Devil's Fig or Giant Devil's Fig... Seriously... That is scary.

    Pigeon peas, on the other hand, also a legume, are one of my favourites. King Parrots visit to rejoice in stripping all partly mature seeds from the pods (they are seriously fond of them), so self-seeding is not usually a huge issue. The parrots don't seem to eat them once they are completely dried out and hard ie mature, so they don't spread baby plants in their droppings, either. These plants do occasionally self-seed immediately beneath the parent plant, but are easy to pull out when small and make great mulch or composting material. The only time I've found any plants self-seeded more than a metre from the parent plant is when I used clippings for mulching and didn't remove seed pods with mature seeds enclosed. It's a pretty plant, brings us beautiful King Parrot visitors, the plant has pretty yellow and red flowers and a somewhat lacy appearance, is thornless, takes severe pruning (for mulch or just to keep small) or is usually fairly shapely with no attention, is said to behave as a nitrogen fixer, has repeatedly hosted very happy nesting birds, and our other plants seem to thrive alongside same. And.... it is one of the plants that offers so many people dhal as their dietary staple. Oh... and they grow fast and are very hardy, too. Very definitely one of my favourite permaculture trees (well, it's a shrub, really)... :)
     
  8. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Like this?

    [​IMG]

    Another note, once they get used to the lack of rain, they can still put on quite a lot of foliage, compared to other pioneers in the garden. Did you inoculate yours, Tree hugger?
     
  9. Tree hugger

    Tree hugger Junior Member

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    Just like that!!! :) ... I have a very similar photo.... yours is a wee bit more impressive :))) ... but I haven't figured out how to upload them yet. No, didn't innoculate them... although... the original may have come with innoculant if I bought them from a seed distributor... Have had them for years so I can't remember how I sourced them... People I've passed seed on to haven't innoculated, though, and they still rage :) Yes... they look cheerful almost always.
     
  10. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    You would remember mixing peat with your seeds, which is how they are usually inoculated.

    They still grow fine, mine are now a mix of inoculated and not. Soil nitrogen may be different but who is going to test that? Would a difference be obvious on marginal soils? Probably.

    Like discussed previously on the forums, if inoculant exists for your species of Fabaceae, get it. It's freely available for a price and from one study I read, can exist unused in soil for 10 years.
     
  11. Tree hugger

    Tree hugger Junior Member

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    Mine must be not inoculated, then, because I don't remember mixing any peat... ?? There was one lot of seeds of all the seeds I've bought over many years which did have an inoculant, but I recall it being a much finer seed than the Cajanus cajan peas... Hmmmm... Anyway, pigeon peas love it here, and are a fail safe, fast-growing shrub with many good features... I don't have masses of them, just a few, but am fond of them. Thank you for explaining the inoculant thing. :)
     

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