acquaponics - does it fit with permaculture?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by forestgirl, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. forestgirl

    forestgirl Junior Member

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    I have watched a youtube information piece on the basics of acquaponics and wondered how the plants get all the vitamins and minerals they need if the fish only produce ammonia? Do the people eating the plants grown from this system get their usual vitamins and minerals?
    Is there modifications that can be made to make it more in keeping with permaculture ideas?
     
  2. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    The ammonia is converted to nitrite which in turn is converted to nitrate, which is taken up by the plants. There are other minerals in the fish food which are also taken up by the plants. Where there are deficiencies, fish friendly supplements are added (e.g. chelated iron in powder or liquid form, potassium in various forms (I've even just used cream of tartar), calcium in the form of shell grit, egg shells or a calcium powder such as that which is mixed in with horse feed.

    Having worms live in the grow beds also assists in breaking down the fish wastes and also organics such as dead roots back to a usable form for the plants.

    I reckon aquaponics is fairly permie, but there are ways to make it more so such as feeding fish home grown plant matter like duckweed (omnivores and herbivores will eat), using worms in system as described above, manufacturing your own supplements (e.g. adding comfrey juice) and supplementing your fish feed with site grown things like soldier fly larvae, worms, plants as described above etc.
     
  3. TheEdibleForest

    TheEdibleForest Junior Member

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    Is aquaponics permie? My take would have to be “not particularly” for the following reasons:
    1. Aquaponics uses pumps both to pump fish water to grow beds to keep the plants happy and to aerate the water to keep the fish happy. Most (but not all) aquaponics systems kill the fish when the pumps fail – so they’re vulnerable to the electricity grid going down, which is contrary to the idea that each important function is supported by many elements.
    2. Most (again, not all) systems are powered by the grid, therefore using non-renewable resources to keep them going. There is absolutely no energy cycling.
    3. Most (not all) systems use commercial fish pellets as the main nutrient input. Given that almost all of these pellets are produced using waste and bycatch from the commercial fishing industry (supplemented by waste from concentration camp chicken production), it is hardly an environmentally friendly way to raise protein. In the case of those who raise their own fish feed, this is generally pretty intensive and a lot of input is needed to generate enough fish feed to keep the little buggers growing, which is not in keeping with the efficient energy planning tenets of permaculture.
    4. In the case of tank based systems (most of the commercially produced kit systems), they are the fish equivalent of concentration camp chickens. No light, no space, too many fish for too small a space. They certainly fail the Joel Salatin test – every day is a bad day for these fish, not just the last one…
    5. Veggies raised in an aquaponics system are much less robust than those grown in decent soil. They have less flavour (an advantage for some veggies, like kale) and are much more prone to attack by sapsuckers than identical plants grown in the soil bed 10 metres away.
    And, yes, we have an aquaponic system. We got into aquaponics before permaculture. Our system is a lot less intense than most, in that the fish survive pump failure and have some space to swim around.
    Much better is our latest attempt, which involved converting a chlorinated pool into a natural pool with silver perch and some experimental gardens. In this we don’t feed the fish at all. They survive only on what they can forage. By the rate they’ve been growing, they’re finding sufficient food.
    If you want to see our systems, there’s a couple of stories that Frank put up at ecofilms:
    https://www.ecofilms.com.au/2011/04/26/pond-aquaponics/
    shows a bit of the original system
    https://www.ecofilms.com.au/2011/04/25/converting-a-swimming-pool-to-grow-fish/
    shows the new system.
    On the whole, I think aquaponics is a decent way to raise fish and (lots of) veggies in very small spaces when you have access to reliable electrickery. Right now, that’s OK; as we move into our post-cheap energy phase of existence, this will become problematic. If you have more space, there are better ways that aquaponics.
    Personally, I would never do a tank system.
    Cheers,
    Les
     
  4. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Well designed aquaponics could easily run with relatively low electricity inputs and therefore run off the grid. For those of us with grid electricity and while electricity is still relatively cheap, I guess there has not been a massive impetus to design as efficiently as could be. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve from your AP in that if you are trying for large amounts of protein, then fish density will be higher and pumping will have to be higher also. If on the other hand you are mainly in it for the plants, low fish stocking can be used and low volumes of water pumped in a given period (meaning low electricity requirement. It would be more than conceivable to run a decent area of grow-beds using a solar pump with no battery backup. This would of course require a sufficient surface area on your fish tank/pond and low enough fish density to allow fish to receive their oxygen in the natural way at night.

    I do however agree with a fair bit of what you say Len, including that land production in most respects is superior for those who have land. I have never seen AP as a substitution for my dirt gardenning, but merely a supplement. The idea is to pick and choose what is best suited to what environment. I started by AP during the terible drought years when water restrictions were such that I was not able to water the gardens at all. I bought rainwater tanks, but it was a while before we got sufficient and regular rain to keep them with any water in them.

    In terms of the question of whether AP is Permie, I'd suggest that other than the purists on here - which would represent a small minority, most people are not operating their dirt gardens or other parts of their system (animals etc) under pure permie principles either. I think it is just good that so many are interested in gaining from the use of at least some elements of permaculture :)
     
  5. forestgirl

    forestgirl Junior Member

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    Thanks everyone,
    There's lots of great information in your replies for me to work on. I loved the ecofilms articles. I am guessing the swimming pool is in a frost free area of NSW? Would it work in Central West NSW?
     
  6. TheEdibleForest

    TheEdibleForest Junior Member

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    Hi Forestgirl,

    you guessed right, I'm in Sydney at the moment.

    this should work anywhere that the pool doesn't freeze solid. Colder = slower fish growth. Except for trout, who like the cold.

    As long as algae grow and there are insects that like water, a reasonable number of silver perch should grow out happily.

    Cheers,

    Les
     
  7. forestgirl

    forestgirl Junior Member

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    Thanks Les, I will work towards this...I really want to have fish available to eat.
    Chris
     
  8. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    Greets All
    You can stock about 5kg of Silver Perch in a non aerated pool,if you have a good bio re mediation cycle.
    Add a good pump and you could go up to 150 kilo in the northern states but it would mean a very high level of management.
    Until we are allowed to grow species such as Talaipia I don't think that Aquaponics or intensive Aquaculture can really justify itself.
    In the case of Talaipia they would probably thrive without all the bells and whistles that Aquaponics has.
    More and more everyday I begin to realize that nothing is truly sustainable.
    We can just attempt to improve on what we have done in the past.Aquaponics hopes to improve on Aquaculture(intensive) but for my reckoning the most sustainable of the group is Aquaculture(extensive)as practised in farm dams etc and best of all is a well managed extensive Polyculture,based around a water system..
    With love and respect
    Fernando
     

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