Natural swimming pool

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by jeff, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Hello all,

    I just spent the last hour writing an update on my natural swimming pool, hit the preview button and lost the lot.

    So here's a short version.

    This is summer No. 4 for the pool and all is going well.
    Not one single chemical or additive ever put in the water, no UV or any other treatments.
    Just one 460 watt pump recirculating the whole system.

    Any one wanting to build their own natural swimming pool or swimming pond that has questions on how to do it, fire away!

    I have a video of my pool and another video of a series of photos showing the construction from start to finish on my website below.

    Jeff.

    www.riverwaterpools.com.au

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Elle

    Elle Junior Member

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    Wow this concept is so amazing and I am glad to see someone doing it in Oz. Thank you for sharing. When I manage to one day purchase a piece of land large enough Im gonna give you a call
     
  3. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    Nice work Jeff, looks really awesome.
    Im going to ask a family friend who has let his conventional pool turn to something resembling a swamp, if he will let me try a conversion. He liked the idea of more of an aquaculture system rather than filling it with sand.

    How does the loop work in your pool? Do you pump from the bottom pool straight back to the top pool or does it filter through the rocks as well?

    I have seen other pools with plants in the water acting to oxygenate the pool. Is there a recommended amount of area of plants ensuring water quantity to help keep the balance, or is it a combination of mechanisms?

    I have only just started on the aquaculture but I came across something that said a pump is necessary if you want to have an active population of fish. Have you worked with aquaculture systems before?

    If I were to combine with an aquaponics system, which by your photos Im guessing thats possible for your set up, is there an amount of time/flow
    neccessary to remove nutrients before the water reaches the main pool?

    Thanks in advance for any advice!
    Matto
     
  4. Yukkuri_Kame

    Yukkuri_Kame Junior Member

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  5. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Gidday Matto, The loop in my pool is that there is no start and no finish, but let's start in the pool.
    All the pool water leaves the pool via overflow skimming, there are no drains below water level.
    Water is oxygenated as it contacts air when going over the skimming edge, so no extra aeration is used in my case.
    The water is then piped via gravity to a filter consisting of multiple panels which removes all detritus down to a very small size.
    After the filter, the water goes to the bottom of the gravel bed bio-filter where it is manifolded to the entire gravel bed.
    The water then flows up through the gravel where the few plants that are in my system can take up nitrates produced by the biological activity.
    I also have algae on the surface of the gravel which takes up the bulk of nitrates and other nutrients.
    From the separate bio filter pond, the water is then pumped back into the pool by two return pipes.
    One return pipe circulates the water horizontally and the other pipe points down into the deep end and moves bottom water to the top, so there is very good circulation within the pool.
    Then the water goes over the skimmer edges again and so on........

    There really is no recommended amount of plants for these pools. It all comes down to the available nutrients.
    In my case I remove detritus material via the panel filter which would otherwise stay in the system and add to the nutrient supply, as happens with many nsp systems.
    The result of this is that my pool is a low nutrient pool and will only sustain a limited number of plants.
    I still achieve incredibly clear water with very few plants.
    I realised early on that algae can be put to very good use as a nutrient scrubber.

    Given that there have been numerous fish in my pool system I could say yes to experience in aquaculture. Sort of.
    The requirements for aquaculture are very similar to a natural swimming pool, that is they both have a biofilter to convert ammonium to nitrate.
    They both require oxygenated water for the de-nitifying bacteria.
    A natural swimming pool wants as low nutrient level as possible.
    Aquaculture produces higher levels of nutrients due to feeding fish and the resulting fish waste. The nitrates produced by the bio filter are often removed by exchanging fresh water.
    Aquaponics, where fish and vegetables are grown in a similar system use the fish solid waste etc as plant food as well as the nitrates produced by the bio filter.

    The need for a pump to run 24/7 varies with the situation.
    I could run my pool pump perhaps 15 minutes on and 15 minutes off without major changes. I turned the pump off altogether for 5 months last winter. That had an affect but it didn't matter. Two weeks after turning the pump back on in September, the water was very clear again. I did have algae to remove though.
    Aqua culture and aquaponics systems would generally need a pump to run 24/7 all year. But that depends on the nutrient input by fish.
    It's all a balancing act to counter the nutrient input with nutrient removal.
    Flow rate through the bio filter is important. too fast and the bacteria can't do their job. Too slow and the bacteria may run out of oxygen.
    My bio filter has a flow rate of approx 5 litres per minute, per square metre.

    There are a few non-negotiables with these systems, but I believe no rules.

    All in my opinion of course.

    This photo of my feet was taken from above the water. water here is about 1.4 metres deep. Nice feet eh!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    I have to disagree Yukkuri. It all depends on design.
    Given that I can run my pool with few plants, the only other consideration for regeneration zone/bio filter size is the size of the bacteria colony.
    My regen/bio filter is perhaps 35% of the pool surface area. I could reduce the bio filter size significantly by using a bio filter media with a greater surface area such as zeolite.
    One wheel barrow of super fine zeolite would have a greater surface area than the 15 cubic metres of gravel in my bio filter.
    Trouble is, the finer the media the more easily it will block, and the more maintenance is required.

    Imo.
     
  7. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Looks like you have a great system going there, all the best for getting it out there into the market.

    I see you shaded the biofilter at the start and a later picture showed it being partly shaded by trees. Is this to help oxygenate the water and regulate temperature? Would you say your system is better suited to colder climates, where most nsp in Europe are, and might need more help with oxygenation in warmer climates ?
     
  8. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Matto, the shade sale was an attempt to reduce water temperature. I can't say it was a huge success however it did provide shade for 32 large golden perch that were in the bio filter pool.
    My system has proven to be unaffected by our hot climate.
    Middle of summer with usually many 40c days, water gets to a maximum of 31c and is clearer than any other time of year.
    This summer we haven't had a 40c day in Albury yet the temp still reached 31c for a few days.
    Average water temp in summer would be 26-27c and winter down to 9c.
    As far as oxygenation of the water, the overflow edges in my pool which total 22 lineal metres appear sufficient.
    Very clear, fresh smelling water is the proof. And no illnesses in the way of gastro bugs (or anything else). Chemicals are obsolete!
     
  9. Fernando Pessoa

    Fernando Pessoa Junior Member

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    Can I wade in here please,(nice pun Fernando),I believe the species you stock as far as plant filters goes is important,the root surface area of the plant really makes a difference longer roots in free floating plants polish water quicker,some plants such as Azzola,as it degrades will encourage excess nutrients which will bring on the old cyno bacterias wich we all know live in the cells of these plants and cause algal blooms.Systems I have had experience with can go 1-1 ratio and be cut back to 30% in cooler months.
    These are plant based only.No mechanics, no bio filters just the plants, that's sub tropical though.If you go 1-1 with diversity you can also stock fish because you have a good range of flora and fauna(micro) on all levels,the plants will polish your water of all the nasties as well as supporting you food chains.
    Get in and have a swim in the afternoon and in the morning 10 laps each session you can increase the fish stocks because you are giving that vital element oxygen a boost.
    I have seen these pools crystal clear at 2 meters,when in perfect balance.
    It's always going to be site specific like all permaculture,take into account the many variables and design accordingly when you fuck up,tweek it all a bit,we all fuck up,I just did twice:>)

    Quick question on feeding those fish Jeff what's the go with you regime,do you use pellets?
    I cant imagine you throwing maggots in and I would think that the bio filter cuts out a lot of the phytoplankton?Beautiful work and a great piece,thanks for sharing.
    Fernando
    p.s you have beautiful feet Jeff
     
  10. Yukkuri_Kame

    Yukkuri_Kame Junior Member

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    Personally, I have no experience, just reporting what I heard elsewhere. At any rate, those are very nice pools you have there, and thanks for all the info so far. Some family members just bought a property with a pool they plan on revamping in Southern California... I will pass on your website to them.
     
  11. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Thanks Yukkuri and Fernando.

    Fernando, it could be said that a system that has many plants rather than a bio filter still has what a bio filter gives..........surface area for bacteria to colonise.
    What I find very appealing about these pools is the many ways that they can be built to produce perfect water.
    My pool is 20 metres long, and with goggles I can clearly see from one end to the other
    I have reduced the fish stock in my pool dramatically leaving only one koi and one large goldfish.
    The golden perch were in the pool for only six months as the dam they were in was very low and I needed to rescue the fish.
    I wanted to release them into the Murray River because I didn't want 32 fish to eat/freeze.
    I asked an appropriate authority (forget who)about releasing them and they said no, because they were from unknown stock and could be a threat.
    So into the bio filter they went. And in the swimming pool as well.
    I was able to hand feed my favourite golden perch that had been in the pool for 4 years. It would follow me around every time I was around the pool.
    The perch in the bio filter did not receive a daily feeding. In fact they did not get fed a great deal at all however I did monitor their condition.
    From time to time I would buy live yabbies and toss them in.

    Water depth here is 3 metres
    [​IMG]
     
  12. HannahO

    HannahO New Member

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    That's amazing how clear the pool is. I've been wanting to build a pool in my backyard that was natural. I always thought that it required lots of plants and some fish to clean and filter the water. I'll have to check your site out to see how you do it. I know when I was little we used to have a nice swimming hole that was spring fed and it always seemed really clean. I suppose because the water was constantly being replaced with clean water from the spring.
     
  13. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Actually, you cannot say that at all.

    A biological filter uses inert material to allow bacteria to colonize the material which brakes down ammonia and nitrite into nitrate. Nitrate eventually gets broken down by another type of bacteria and converts to Nitrogen and Oxygen, however this is NOT typical of aquariums or ponds that use these systems. Nitrate build up happens a lot, and is one of the primary reasons of water changes in fish tanks, and natural ponds. On top of this problem, the inert material filled with bacteria does NOT break down other chemical solutions in the water.

    This is the primary failing of all water / sewage systems world wide. Flow forms in this case also can only do so much before Nitrate levels rise since they are mimicking what the inert biological filter should be doing in the first place, well, that is if the inert biological load area was set up in a "trickle" or "Wet / dry" filter system.

    The plant system of natural ponds use an incredible amount of plant life in addition to the bacterias to break down not only Ammonia, & Nitrite. In addition, the soil holds the bacteria to break down nitrates into free nitrogen and oxygen, in addition to the numerous other chemicals filtered out by the plants which again makes it superior then using inert bio systems alone. This is why "Reef" tanks always do better and are now able to reproduce corals. They have a 2nd stage plant (macro algae) filter in addition to a high surface area media for the biological section. The exact same methods have been used in fresh water & brackish as well, not to mention African Rift Lake replications.
     
  14. briansworms

    briansworms Junior Member

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