How do you acquire land?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by insipidtoast, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. insipidtoast

    insipidtoast Junior Member

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    I've got so many great ideas. Let's start with my area: Santa Barbara. (Avg. 15in. rain annually).
    I'd like to acquire land in Santa Barbara or in the surrounding area for agroforestry. How should one go about getting land other than having to pay for it out of one's pocket (land is extremely expensive here!!). I'd like to have demonstration gardens to showcase my ideas for a no-irrigation, sustainable, agroforestry, polyculture as well as land to make money selling plant goods.

    A simple system that would work great in our area:

    -Tipuana tipu overstory (works best as N-fixing pioneer, and can be heavily pollarded later on when crowding happens).
    -Albizzia julibrissin (The best choice for a drought tolerant, winter-deciduous, N-fixing, permanent canopy tree).
    -Cereus peruvianus (Drought-tolerant, Fast growing columnar cacti. Can grow taller than 15 feet. Produces edible fruit that rival dragonfruit. Stems are also edible.)
    -Opuntia (these have practically naturalized in our area).
    -Aloe vera (nice drought-tolerant, medicinal, that actually thrives in partial shade conditions.)
    -Kudzu (Yes! Kudzu! This plant would grow well in our area and not become invasive!)
    -Some sort of native pea or ceanothus groundcover for nitrogen fixation (These plants would probably die in a mature forest, but would be vital assets in the early years.)
    -Butia capitata (A surprisingly drought tolerant, moderate-sized palm that grows well in partial shade and produces lots of very delicious orange fruits when the plant fruits.)

    I'd also like to produce a modified version of this system in southern Baja with the addition of Moringa oleifera and perhaps a Echinocereus stramineus cactus as well.
     
  2. matto

    matto Junior Member

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    G'day insipidtoast,
    Not sure about your country but "according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the median age of farmers in farm families was 52 in 2006 and is likely to have risen another year since then. More significantly, 40% of farmers are over 55, with 18% over 65. A significant changing of the guard is not far away."
    This is an opportuntiy as far as I can see. Sure, some folk might struggle with the ideals permaculture, but this may have something to do with inherent cultural practises.
    The way I see it there will be someone, somewhere out there that will be happy to lease some of their property to you to keep their property alive and producing goods for the open market. They are proud of the work they have achieved and could well be open to youthful endeavours.
    I think its about being open with what you want to achieve and finding the right person to work with.
    If you acknowledge the experience of these people there could well be a succesion in farming, as the traditional father/son relatonship to the land has been lost, due mainly to the struggles this generation has seen in their own families and better options in urban centres.
    Unfortunately I cannot give you any examples and I have seen other threads stumble at this hurdle. But I am positive that through percerverance you will be able to find an agreement with an ageing farming family, either by preferably a long lease agreement or a percentage of your productivity.
    There could well be a better opportunity south of the border if you have the resources to do this. Both through the cheaper land costs and through community involvment with your ideas, showing them an example of new markets
    A beer at the local pub has always opened upsome interesting converations for me.
    Keep us posted on your endevours!
     
  3. permup

    permup Junior Member

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    Aquiring land without paying for it? Not sure that's going to be possible, but you may be able to undertake your endeavours on someone elses land. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but in Australia we have a carbon credit scheme, whereby people who own land can earn money from the government for planting trees. There have been examples of land owners who allow PLUs (people like us) to set up the type of system you're talking about for free, then they receive payback from the government for doing it.

    You may also find that there are commercial land owners who wish to demonstrate their ecological commitment by allowing you to set up a system on their land. Yes, they would then be able to advertise their philanthropic endeavours.

    You could submit a proposal to your local council to delegate some land for the system. They could use it as a way to improve community and a way to lobby for re-election.

    You also sound like you want to set it up as a bit of a business. If this were the case, perhaps approaching local nurserys?
     
  4. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Well, living a bit north of Santa Barbara and owning land, it's more crucial to find land that has a year-round water supply, doesn't have any right-of-ways over it by neighbors or utility companies, isn't contaminated by previous owners burying tanks or dumping substances, isn't in the Coastal Commission zone, isn't in a Scenic Corridor so you don't have to get variances in order to build, doesn't have any water restrictions in the watershed for the salmon that come up from the ocean., and you might be amazed at what tiny little creeks they come up in, and how all the water off a mountain contributes to that tiny stream, so the law applies to everyone, even if you don't have a stream. You've got to find out the minimum parcel size, how much makes a legal parcel, whether that parcel is legal or not to be able to build on it, otherwise it's not worth anything. If you plan on selling to the public you'll need to be on a rather busy road, not an isolated place. People do not go exploring for vegetables, not enough, anyway. an invasive species like kudzu wouldn't work because birds fly in, get it on their feet, then fly out and leave it at creeks and streams and other people's property, and it grows like wildfire there. There is an invasive species council in Santa Barbara, and you don't want to have them coming after you.

    "Selling plant goods," there are many farmers and CSAs around Santa Barbara and Santa Ynez, and they are already selling what grows well there and what people want. You've got to do a lot of research into what people are buying, not what you want to grow. That's one of the basic foundations of establishing a business. All the fabulous lettuce in the world won't sell if everyone else is already selling it and people are not impressed by freshly grown vegetables these days. There's already plenty of sources for them.

    If you are on rented land, the odds of an owner letting you put down perennials and trees is slim, and how many years does it take to get a canopy? Will you still be there? If you want to buy, you can check out repossessions and auctions, but you've got to do a lot of homework about a parcel, whether it's developable, if there's a house on it that was not built with permits they give you 18 nonths to bring it up to code. You've got to make sure it's unencumbered by any liens that might be on it from legal issues attached to it. And regular banks don't lend on land that isn't developed with a house on it. You'd need to get a loan for bare land, and those have higher interest rates, and few banks lend that kind of money, especially now. Although you might be able to pay for some land, I doubt you'd find anything below $550,000, the taxes are forever, so plan on quite a bit a month going into that.

    The farther inland you go, the cheaper land is, but if you get into the large mountain range east of Santa Ynez, look out for marijuana growers. They are a nightmare to live around. We have friends in Willits that are having a horrible time living near that, with illegal aliens usiing hillsides for bathrooms, helicopters going in and out, they control and bully and it's just not worth it. law enforcement doesn't take these people on, they are too dangerous. If you do get interested in a place, go there and sit on it for a whole day, watch the traffic that goes by, watch the neighbors, watch the helicopters watch how the planes go into and out of the SB airport. The temps in all those mountains is much cooler than the temps down in SB by the water. It often freezes in Santa Ynez and inland, so the same plants don't grow there.

    that being said, if you can put some money down and get a decent loan (sometimes the owner will be the bank) and you love the place, plan on spending at least 10 years there, it is definitely worth the effort involved to own land there. :)
     
  5. tropicalexotics

    tropicalexotics Junior Member

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    It seems you are following a similar path as I...except for the land for nothing bit.
    I worked a couple of years doing jobs I sometimes didnt like and saved up and then spent a year exploring central and south america including the amazon and macchu pitchu.
    I met my wife there and when she moved to australia with me, we worked our butts off for another year or so to save for a deposit on some land in an area we both liked and could afford.
    I enjoy the feeling and empowerment of owning freehold land and knowing its mine .

    Can I ask how you can you can afford to travel to remote destinations yet have no money for a land deposit ?..
    Maybe its just a matter of prioritizing what you need and perhaps lowering your expectations by initially becoming a landowner in a more affordable area.

    And as sweetpea mentions above it may be possible to get some vendor finance, particularly during this recession.

    Just remember though getting the land is just one thing ..from then on everything you want to do on it costs you money...which is another good reason for buying it in the first place as at least all the time, capital and effort should theoretically be improving the value as well as your asset base over time.

    Scott
     
  6. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    approach your local or state government with a business plan to teach people how to do permaculture - only thing is they must provide the land

    make it on a perpetual lease with peppercorn rentals

    a lot of queensland cattle stations are run on that principal - or were a decade or so ago when I researched it
     
  7. insipidtoast

    insipidtoast Junior Member

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    What are peppercorn rentals?

    I'm more intrigued by doing a demonstration site at this point. I want to create an asset for the community. No one is doing anything like that, and yet I feel things are changing big time in Santa Barbara. I wouldn't be surpised if they start giving out land grants now for sustainable land-use projects.
     
  8. paradisi

    paradisi Junior Member

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    peppercorn rentals are an agreement where I rent or lease something off you for a minimal annual fee - - hence the peppercorn because they are so small
     
  9. tropicalexotics

    tropicalexotics Junior Member

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    Sorry I didnt realise your idea was to be a community owned project because you mentioned making money from plants.
    Anyway..in the shire I live in developers once had to give part of the land to be developed to the council to be designated as "parkland".In rural residential areas sometimes these areas consist of a couple of acres or so.
    In reality often these parkland area's are not used as such and with council tightening its budgetary belts,they often become ill managed weed infested areas..
    It could be possible to lease these area's as it sometimes is to lease unused gazetted road areas which exist only on paper although these are mainly leased to adjacent landholders.

    But there may be options but I would start by forming a legitimate organisation and approaching councillors in your chosen areas and seeing if any are sypathetic to your ideas.

    Scott
     
  10. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    insipid, have you gone out to Fairview Farms in Goleta? They know about the issues and trends in the area. They have come up against a lot of complaints by surrounding housing tracts of noise and dust and traffic. Santa Barbara proper, being such a wealthy community that is densely packed on those hillsides may be pretending to be green, but they are highly unlikely to agree to roaring tillers and agricultural practices outside their windows. The university might have some information or want your assistance with one of their projects. But it's the wealthy wanting to be able to say they have made their houses "green" with bamboo and expensive solar installations that is the real trend. The mindset of Santa Barbara is not going to revert to an agrarian lifestyle. :)
     
  11. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Senior Member

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    Approach a local land owner with your proposal ,church,university,council,factory.
    Good luck
    We had the local church donate land for our project
     

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