Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Society - revisited

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by cassio, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    These are excerpts from a thread started by sushil yadav a long time ago. I took the initiative to bring this to the Big Picture forum, in an attempt to gather the attention I think the views here contained deserve.
    I took the liberty to make some clean-up and slight modifications aiming at improving readability, but I wish to encourage all to read the original thread.
     
  2. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    On Science, Technology and the Environment

    Two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism. Science and Technology is responsible for both these problems. In the past Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.

    Humans are incapable of making solutions. Humans have always created problems. All solutions of Man have actually been problems in disguise - they have led to bigger and greater problems. The quest for a solution is the biggest problem in itself.

    You will realize the value of what science & Technology has given when you compare it with what science & technology has taken away.

    Take a look at the satellite pictures of forests taken 30 years ago and compare them with the satellite pictures of this year to know how many forests have been cut down on this planet.
    Industrial Society has decimated animals, trees, birds and fish. It has poisoned the sky, the land, the oceans.
    The entire planet has been turned into a garbage dump/ landfill - billions of tons of metal waste, plastic waste and electronic waste on land and in the oceans.
    Thousands of man-made toxic chemicals in the air, in the water and in the food chain.

    Science, Technology and Industrialization have destroyed animals, trees, air, water and land - the very things that created and sustained life on earth.

    And people are still counting on science to save the environment! Science is not the solution, SCIENCE IS THE PROBLEM! It’s like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.

    Technology has destroyed ecosystems.

    But the Techno-Worshippers of this insane Industrial Society want still more technology, new technology, better technology, advanced technology - they claim that technology will save the ecosystems.

    Two thousand years ago the air was clean - it was not contaminated with billions of tons of toxic Industrial gases and particulate matter.
    Which technology made the air clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

    Two thousand years ago the rivers and oceans were clean and full of fish and other species.
    Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

    Two thousand years ago the planet was full of forests - millions of species thrived - their population was hundreds and thousands of times greater than what it is now.
    Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

    Now billions of tons of solid, liquid and gaseous waste cover this planet. The number of animal and plant species is reduced to a fraction of what it used to be.
    Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

    Now the land and oceans are contaminated with tons of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, nuclear waste.
    Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?


    Technology does not save ecosystems - it is the absence of technology that saves ecosystems.
    Science, technology and industrialization lead to over-exploitation of ecosystems.
    Technology is not the saviour of ecosystems - technology is the destroyer of ecosystems.


    A person is being stabbed repeatedly at regular intervals - every hour.
    Some people are trying to save the victim.
    (The sane way to save is - you first stop the attack – you prevent the attack)
    What these insane people do - they allow the attack to be continued. They don’t stop it -- they don’t even try to prevent it.
    Instead, what they do - They say we are going to save the victim by using technology - the best technology - the best medical care.

    Bring this technology - Bring that technology.
    Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

    They give the victim the best technology - the best medical care.
    In the meantime the stabbing continues – every hour – even while the best medical care is being given.

    One can imagine the fate of the victim.

    Ecosystems are getting destroyed due to production of consumer goods.
    Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

    Industrial society is destroying necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

    The sane way of saving ecosystems is - you stop production of consumer goods - you reduce production of consumer goods to the minimum level.

    But the insane Industrial Society continues producing consumer goods [ in fact production is being increased every day]
    The insane response of Industrial Society is - We will save the environment with technology - the best technology.

    Bring this technology - Bring that technology.
    Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

    In the meantime production of consumer goods continues - 3 billion people living in cities are continuously engaged in - making , buying and selling of consumer goods - killing the ecosystems moment by moment.

    One can imagine the fate of environment.

    Height of Insanity.......Height of Abnormality.
     
  3. Solaris

    Solaris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Capitalist civilization itself is running out of steam as its founding premises...money and security, are not adequate to support ongoing creative growth and spiritual purpose. Now that the central theme of capitalization is bankrupt, we have the opportunity to reinvent ourselves and what it means to be human. The story of culture itself runs dry when there is nothing left to capitalize on, when resources are gone, when there is no viable work worthy of effort and the state runs out of tax money to maintain its structures and the majority of the country's GNP goes into militarization. The collapse of civilization occurs through a failure of the imagination. For all along the honorable and higher alternatives are possible. Endeavors that give us a reason to live beyond mere survival. Globally we have reached such a time, when the return to the good, the true and the beautiful is essential in order to resuscitate and rectify the human condition.
     
  4. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is true Solaris. And that is what we are trying to do, us here talking about permaculture, isn't it?
    But we feel weak in our pursuit, because we feel alone. Imagine, we giving up our corporate or administrative or whatever jobs because we know it is rubbish, we know it does not contribute to make the world like we really want to see it. Then we sell our house in town, and get a place in the country, where we apply all the permaculture skills we have and a lot we will acquire, in constructing our own hoses ourselves with materials avaliable on the spot, we build with earth, nice, environment-friendly design, rainwater, dry toilet, banana circles, compost, swale, soil conditioning, food forest, and so on. We give up our car, big TV and all that crap. We reforest part of the area with natives, we make a huge change in the environment, we pay our debts with nature. We are living a natural life, we should be happy.
    But we are not happy for long, and why is that? because we are lonely. No one's happy when they are alone. We need people like us around. Our friends, our family, everyone that is important for us is still there in town, in their corporate, administrative or whatever jobs, driving their cars, watching rubbish on tv, going to school to get brainwashed into a good servant of the system. In other words, living "normal" lives. Who gives it a sh*t whether it is sustainable or not: it is normal!. And, in the eyes of some of them, we are "crazy".
    So, what I am wondering is, how do we solve that? There must be a way to really step over the line without being lonely.
    I see two ways to do that:
    1. we get together, like-minded people from all around getting together in the journey, doing the "crazy" thing, together. Like a commune.
    2. we do a real effort to show all people in the world that we are right, in our views, in our choice, in our actions, and hope they will see we're right and join us.
    But for 2. to happen, we must first make it work. We must do 1, and succeed not only to survive, but to be happy. We must effectively achieve this for ourselves, the return to the good, the true and the beautiful, the ressurection and rectification of our own human condition. And to succeed in this, we must unite!
     
  5. Solaris

    Solaris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The choice to show up is made when we get an intuition for the ultimate prize and become determined above all else to find a way back to our Self. The challenge we are faced with is to develop our sovereignty and be true to nature...then with bio-ethics and navi-gation restored, we can come together in celebration of our deep humanity.

    The processes of decay are so great that we are once again discovering the innate drive towards wholeness as our governing principle. But only when we love enough to know that all other roads are futile, and having the zenith perspective to no longer be distracted by or sacrificed to the dethroning machinations of the presovereign culture in which we find ourselves.

    Self-determinancy through wholeness
    Undivided will
    Universal Law
    Cosmic power

    We only come together beyond utilitarianism via the resonance of Spirit...through sovereignty.
    This self-creation longing of the inner androgynous sovereign and the consequent Self-possession and inner knowing that results from metamorphic unification was why the traditionalist Amun (hidden one" or "the secret one")priesthood tried to obliterate Akhenaten ( Effective spirit of Aten) from history - for the power inherent in actually showing up in our full humanity is too threatening to those who seek power over others and wealth accumulation.
     
  6. Dreamie

    Dreamie Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It’s a consumer rather than producer driven world, helped by marketing companies whose job it is to persuade people that they need or deserve the latest widget.

    Society is driven by what you have or what you are getting next, Dream home, dream car, dream job, dream wife, dream phone, dream life. People are sold on the idea that if they only work harder they can buy what they want and have a part of the dream the thing is, it is a dream and therefore never attainable once you get the item you thought would solve all your problems there is another one that solves the problems you now have.

    People fill the voids they have in life with widgets and consumer items to make themselves feel better about spending 70% of their lives earning money to buy the goods they need to fill the void.

    If people got enjoyment out of the simple things in life such as gardening, cooking, preserving, saving etc then society would be very different. Instead, gardening is seen as a chore that is made easier with chemicals, cooking is made simply by eating out and importing foods out of season, saving is seen as bad because inflation has in the past made it less effective while debt has been the way forward.

    We are starting to see the next wave of consumerism, green consumers who buy carbon offsets, solar panels, wind turbines to fill the void they have in their lives. The problem is we are still consuming something rather than reducing our consumption.
     
  7. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E Washington, USA
    Climate:
    Semi-Arid Shrub Steppe (BsK)
    For many reasons the availability of cheap energy in the form of oil (and even coal) has fostered society based on distraction ... addicted to an abundance of energy and all the "plastic pumpkins" that come with that. Solaris hit it right ... society is distracted from from any desire or ability to know self and place in this world/universe.

    With the advent of peak oil (and a multitude of other peak resources) I'm expecting that the reality of our human situation will become manifest soon. The trick then will be to have a basis for a saner, more wholistic approach to living seeded in key spots around the world to spread when the time is right.

    I'm thinking the time draws nigh ...

    Bill
     
  8. the jackal

    the jackal New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hmmm interresting

    what you are are talking about about is the nature of man/woman it is the very reason you are sitting on your computer disscusing the problems of the world when you could be outside gardening or looking at the stars pondering ur own mindless experince, all this complexity that you talk is the workings of the ego and the path towards the ultimate complexity it is in our nature to hate and war and rage, to want more i guess we need to except who we are, except this reality and the nature of the mind to create its reality, we are all moving towards god , not in the christian or religious term of the word god as some serperate entity that seeks to control us but the god that is in each and every one of us



     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Wanna know of a disturbing study I heard about recently... I'll paraphrase and simplify.

    This university mob in the US of A did a study on how people can be convinced to change their minds. The outcome was that it is very hard to do so, even when they are presented with a truth that is counter to their beliefs. One example was when a bunch of conservatives who believe that the US found weapons of mass destruction before invading Iraq where shown CIA documents that admitted and demonstrated that no WOMD were ever found... rather than convincing the folks to change their mind, in many cases it actually strengthened their belief!

    [Insert a smiley face showing disbelief and resignation]
    ...
     
  10. Solaris

    Solaris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ignore-ance—Blind belief in the politicing lies of the Matrix results from submission to authority for the sake of certainty. If the believers thought that they had to think for themselves and that their President or the Man in The Sky wasn't doing their thinking for them then they would feel insecure, afraid and without identity. To the hivemind, conformity and allegiance is more important than truth, right will or personal meaning. This is not just presovereign behavior, it is prepersonal...for those still caught at the tribal level, have not inhabited their prefrontal lobes and so do not have a core of individuality, but are sponges for identity/identification from outside influences. Because this state is emotionally and cognitively very fragile these people cannot be convinced to change their minds through logic or even evidence. The heart-intelligence, soul-dream mind, emotional gnosis of right and wrong and even their basic ability for rational reasoning are not yet being used, but lie dormant waiting for possible illumination in the future...perhaps through crisis, to break through the infantile circuits and initiate their own capacity for original thought.
     
  11. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    g'day solaris,

    well i guess in a nutshell, it all comes down to indoctrination of the masses at all levels. for me the troubling of all is that people believe science is some sort of god like thing and whatever they tell us is conjectural gospel, that has been indoctrinated into the masses and no matter what people remain in that comfort zone with introverted vision, probably seems to keep life simple to keep one free to enjoy all the sport, shopping and lifestyle tv that they have been indoctrinated into, some allow themselves to be indoctrinated under 'the need for greed' banner that encompasses power and glory as their goal.

    the down side once indoctrinated into a process like that then changing is almost out of the question, can be done but as most deal in subjectivety instead of objectivety not very likely to happen.

    people on another forum can't see anything but good from those lifestyle type tv programs which have enertainment as the main interface and indoctrination as the hidden factor(all about setting trends for buying), didn't like it when that was challenged in any degree got very defensive. i'm thankfull that i was bought up without those preassures and have common sense to fall back on, common sense or as it is called nowadays un-common common sense, common sense has been indocrtinated out the window. simple rule if it doesn't make sense it probably isn't.

    so those with vested interests will rise to the fore and teh rest of us will cop it in the neck so to speak, like we are expected to lay down and have our bellies rubbed. when a common peson speaks out belittle their character or twist their words and leave their questions unanswered.

    the rot is well set in solaris, is how i see it.

    len
     
  12. Solaris

    Solaris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "most deal in subjectivity instead of objectivety"

    Consider that the subjectivity of the Borg individual is not even their own subjectivity and so there is no way the hivemind individual can be objective. The "subject" is told what to think and won't allow themselves the original thought to think outside of the officially sanctioned party line. The evolution out of simple cultural absorption is to develop the subjectivity of the individual beyond the prepersonal/collective "I" to the cosmic "I" or soul. However this requires actual spiritual initiation and illumination which is largely prevented by the brain damaging/power-over structures from the womb to the grave and the antibiogenic technologies and habits of the consumptive culture. Only through developing the inner subjective sense beyond the perspective of hivemind can we gain any degree of critical thought or objectivity at all.
     
  13. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Solaris, I agree with you (at least as far as I can understand)
    But I am a practical-oriented guy, can you please be more specific on the actions that can be taken to bring this development to more people? I mean in practical terms.

    Cassio
     
  14. Solaris

    Solaris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fear and power plays reduce prefrontal lobe function and lobotomize the brain hemispheres, thus negative means of social control keep the human species back at more primitive operating levels, whereas even now we have the innate ability to function at the mystic/visionary level as a society. Since the culture promotes closure, inertia, conflict, toxicity and impossible dilemmas, we have to transcend the culture.

    I have been working on the neurology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, anthropogeny, theology, physiology...exercise and training necessary to rise above the machinations of Borg culture and become who we really are...to show up and claim our own center of the universe.

    Here is my blog...
    https://jana-sovereignstate.blogspot.com/ —My Blog on Sovereignty
    and my book should be finished early next year...anyone wanting diet, supplements, exercises, pitfalls or the neurological info on sovereignty email me...
    [email protected]


    Becoming sovereign requires a Whole Life Overhaul:
    Strong immune system, brain feeding, neurogenesis, transcending primate status brain damage, empowered endocrine system, sex hormone potency, balanced abundance of neurotransmitters, raw-remineralized diet, fasting, regular exercise, sunlight, sungazing, meditation/practices, dearmoring, creative outlet, fun, play, humor, mindfulness, compassionate-grokking, intellectual excitement, connection with the evolutionary edge, music, arts, muse, amplified dream/vision life, healing past relationships, releasing dis-ease, will to be whole, liberation of one's energies for growth, positive constructive thinking, solutions consciousness, overcoming childlike dependencies and uncertainty, learning to parent and lovingly tend one's Self, growth of skills and inner resources, novelty and adventure, feeding one's interests, egalitarian and win/win ethos, opening the heart-prefrontal lobe connection, sovereign peers, social reinforcement of sovereign principles and Universal Law.

    To become whole or sovereign you have to change the brain that creates the brain through a change of heart.
     
  15. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Work and the Environment

    (original discussion by sushil yadav here)

    There was a time when Man used to say –

    I work in order to feed my family.
    I work in order to put Food on the Table.

    Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.

    Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, 200 TV Channels, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.

    Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table.
    There is too much weight on the Table.
    And the Table has begun to creak.

    The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds.
    The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees.
    The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land.
    The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys.
    The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans - the Rivers and Lakes.

    There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food.

    We need just a few things to live.
    And we are making thousands of things. And we are destroying necessary things, and beautiful things, to make stupid unnecessary things!
    Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.

    Destroy Shopping Culture.

    Go back to Simple Living.
    Go back to putting just Food on the Table.


    Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

    When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

    Food, Water, Air, some clothing, some Shelter - these are necessities.

    Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.
    Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.
    Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

    When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

    Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems. It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".
    Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.
    Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.
    Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.
    Industry/ Factories burn millions of tons of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.
    Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.
    When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.
    When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.
    Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.

    The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

    Every citizen of Industrial Society is using hundreds/ thousands of consumer goods.

    Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly.
    The per capita killing of animals, trees, air, water and land in Industrial Society is hundreds of times/ thousands of times greater than that of pre-industrial society.

    Every citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer - serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

    Those who produce consumer goods are killers.
    Those who sell consumer goods are killers.
    Those who buy consumer goods are killers.

    The entire Industrial Society is a Terrorist.
    Science and Technology is the Terrorist.
    Military Industrial Complex is the Terrorist.
    Culture of Consumerism - culture of making, buying and selling is the Terrorist. Consumerism kills ecosystems - Consumerism is the biggest act of violence against nature.

    Make things
    Buy things
    Sell things

    This is not the purpose of life. Destroy Shopping Culture.

    No one deserves more.
    Everyone deserves less.
    Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less.
     
  16. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As soon as we understand this, it becomes clear that advocating "sustainability" or "environmentalism" without abandoning Industrial Society is sheer hypocrisy, to the fundamental level.

    Cassio
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    cassio,

    "Food, Water, Air, some clothing, some Shelter - these are necessities. " and i would suggest a rite in a compassionately functoning community, that you mention need to come at an affordable rate for all who live in our society.

    a book called "Affluenza by Clive Hamilton" australia author sounds like a good read, never have read it as we need our money to live in this world created by the folly of the yuppy set and all their wastefull use of resources chasing fads and fancies and feel good's, presented to them on the idiot box tv. the merchadising and high end consumer set doing more damage to the planet than all other put together. i dire claim on the media lifestyle shows like those set up chef ones and more(there's lots of them) are infuencing shoppers habits, that is what they are designed to do, fronted as entertainment they are indoctrinating trends apparently successfully, even had people defed the process??!! got me lost. i was raised in a world of common sense.

    the messages in threads like these, missed by many, passed of by many, and treated as rants and raves by others.

    we are trying to live a simple & material things less manner.

    len
     
  18. cassio

    cassio Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks, len.
    You are right there. But, lets face it, we are not achieving the desired results, are we. I mean, or course it depends a lot on each one's idea of success; if you are happy enough to have improved your own life in terms of sustainability, health and happiness (well, that already sounds like something, actually..:think:).

    Let's put it another way: if you are happy enough with planting a couple of trees and making a nice garden, while keeping a job (your main occupation in terms of time and effort, for the money) that contributes to all the things you profess against (eg, development, production or commercialization of consumers products, unnecessary services, etc), then there is something wrong here, isn't there? Let us not be hypocrites.
    But why do we act like this? Why are we so shy? [rhetorical question]
    I know the feeling. I know it's scary to step over the line. I haven't had the guts myself so far.
    So, I've been trying to figure out why it is so scary. And I've found two factors, which I wish to discuss here.
    #1. Fear of the unknown. we've been brought up immersed in this society, we've been taught from the cradle to be one of the zombies, and there is a whole system to absorb you and use you as a part of the system. You went to school, you learned a profession, you got a job, you have "security", "health" system and all that, everything is ready for you, it's established. If you dare to get out, you just don't know what may happen, especially if you fail. That's scary.
    #2. We are isolated. we are apart from each other (like-minded people), and surrounded by "normal" people, who won't encourage you to make things right. Alone we are weak, challenges seem huge, and we are scared.
    I used to think of myself and all other freaks as cowards. Now I'm changing my mind. They are the cowards. What makes them strong is that they are billions, they aren't alone, while we are singled out.
    To stand a chance, we must unite. It will fix problem #2, and this will give us strength to overcome #1. That's the point I'm trying to make.
    All it takes is initiative, organization, and courage. And, if we are scared, let's look at it as an adventure! What else could make life worthy?

    Please, guys, let's discuss positive stances, positive steps toward real change.
    I think discussing gardening details endlessly, while leaving the root problems undiscussed, is very shortsighted, at best.
    If permaculture can change the world, reducing it to a gardening club is a crime.
     
  19. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

    Joined:
    May 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    cassio,

    i don't think any thing as such ie.,. pemaculture can't change anything much at all, except maybe the bank accounts of some running courses dunno.

    it will take people willing to change their mind sets to make the changes, some may gather in places like permaculture forums or simple living forums etc.,. etc.,. and in those forums you have a cross section of our current society with all the bumps and warts. so no can't say that if everyone obtains a pdc that the world will be changed.

    when i worked i did so that we might live from one week to the next, that was it we have never been high end consumers driven by the lusts of consumerism. my gardens evolve we plant trees that will give some food no landscaping dream around here.

    len
     
  20. Solaris

    Solaris Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2010
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

Share This Page

-->