Permaculture seed action: it started with two slices of bread...

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself Here' started by seed savers, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    Fabulous to meet you guys.
    Just have been browsing through the forums as I was given the privilege today. Always heart-warming for Jude and me to know that the generation X and Y is active in the field. I am sparing a large thought for those under 30s I met on our seedsavers travels in the Majority World, in particular Melanesia with one fifth of the world’s languages, who have never seen a Google map but love being global.
    Our latest longish project was the distribution to civil societies and government groups (nursing schools, tertiary, secondary schools, NGOs etc) in the Pacific region of a 57mn documentary we produced for the wonderful people of the Pacific. The film was shot in 11 countries to show them what it is like when subsistence farmers switch to commercial agriculture. What toxic methods they learn and the corporate seeds they are tempted and led to believe in.

    We just about broke the Guiness Book of Records with 13 screening (every second day at a different time that is) of our doco“Our Seeds: Seeds Blong Yumi” in just one month in the Solomon Islands. ( google it!).Yes The Solomon’s are an independent country B4 Blong Britain (and Unilever). Their gov. now sell their seas and what is left of their (food) forest for trinklets. Even rainforest Ngali nut trees (Canarium solomonensis) go under the hammer Then people with perfect teeth and smiles buy rice and three minutes noodles with the money. Guess the rest of the story.

    Anywayt. We started the Fukuoka system at the edge of a subtropical rainforest in run down paddocks, in our 30s in the mid 1970s worked like dogs, love loved it loved it from sunrise till after sunset, learned a lot, collected every kind of seed, cutting tubers we could from everywhere , dug ...kind of swales, then met with Bill (Mollison) in 1979, got inspired and that was it. We collected legumes trees of all kinds and everything useful and edible. We got seed bug or seed consciousness. Just like you perhaps? Good onya!

    Bill visited reguarly our family and our fruity forest and then one very late evening he got us somehow to volunteer to start a national seed network…..I swear he put a fistful of banknotes between two slices of bread from the table, hanged the lot near the fuel stove on a nail in a twisted red onion bag and said something like this: “That’s to start your Seed Trust with Jude, I want to be your first foundation member. The bread that will be always there in case money becomes worthless.” I will ask Bill at our next visit. Bill has an amazing memory; he just turned 84 in early May. A good as ever. He is very well looked after, no worries!

    From there, members joined Seed savers Network and started sending seeds they have kept and some started to created their own local seed adaptation from seeds we sent them that was not adapted. Mega genes reshuffle. 24 years later there is 100 Local Seed Networks just in Australia and we have taught Permacutlure and that Seed matters in 21 countries. I just counted them on my fingers. Now, Jude and me can now work more on strategic alliances wherever our travels take us. Recently we were in Rajasthan, Malaysia, Melbourne, Adelaide and Tasmania.

    Until we meet,
    Michel and Jude
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Are you the Handbook people? I LOVE my handbook. It's got so much useful info that I haven't been able to find anywhere else. Keep up the great work!
     
  3. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    Self-publishing brings resilience to small org

    Yes, we started putting pen to paper exactly how we save seed ourselves (in these days between Nimbin and the Channon) and what our members reported to us as their way. BTW Good to hear that you make the most of our little publication years after it was put together. We then fine tuned piles of notes, and wrote down our best practices for each vegetable so that our seed saver members/caretakers/curators would end up with some kind of methods in their seed practices and how they could produce local varieties themselves without seed traders. The info was partly published in our newsletter at first, then we got become a book in 1993 because people keep on asking for more info. We also asked our members how they save their seeds, how do they store them and how they use the plant etc.
    Without much finances in Seed savers kitty, we put it to our members to pre-order the book if they would, (very much on the model of the Permaculture Designers Manual). 800 people helped us and one person lent some money. We had just about enough funds to publish ourselves without a publisher who may have pulped it as soon as the print run slacked off as they do in the publishing trade. Actually we had Bantam and Corgi restructured as Doubleday in Sydney, they called us in, pay for the fares etc to have us down cause they wanted to publish it for us but in the end we did it ourselves and now it has sold 29 700 copies. Good decision.
    The Seed Savers Handbook has by itself produced and still produce one third to one half of the income we needed to operate.
    Thanks for asking the question i had'nt though about it for ages.
    I say a big thank you to those people who were with us from the beginning in 1985 and helped us so much and it is still very helpful now.
    Nowaday with the possibility of ebooking and small run laser photocopying, i would strongly recommend anyone who have a bit of research in their draws to put it out to the rest. Start on PRI site as you probably do. For any small organisation, it surely bring resilence. We are in our 25th years. Do it!
     
  4. Speedy

    Speedy Junior Member

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    Bonjour Michel.
    welcome to the forum.
    and hi to Jude.
     
  5. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Welcome

    Originally from HDRA??

    I am always trying to track down odd seed. What would you suggest as good starting point on the WWW?
    At the moment I am after Salacia oblonga.

    There is an interesting thread here on the implications of epigenetics theory to seeds, seed saving and plants.
    You might like to search for it.
    or (PS)
    I could stop being lazy and get if for you
    https://forums.permaculture.org.au/...arden-farm-Implications&highlight=epigenetics
     
  6. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    I am more related to the french peasants, the Jose Bove style, than to english gentleman farmer. Having said that we are friendly with HDRA, have launched our book on seed production at HDRA in Ryton in early 2000. We co-wrote it with Jeremy Cherfas who was at the time with HDRA.
    Yes of course the DNA is the potential and the rest is up to us. That is what gardeners in Local Seed Networks in Australia and elsewhere are experiencing: local adaptations for our garden plants.

    We have left behind seed-sourcing to Local Seed Networks; they handle seeds etc. Done that for more than two decades hey. We spend now more time in the gardens and the kitchen, with friends, family. And making alliances with other groups. Just screened a doco "our Seeds" last weekend to lots of indigenous Pacific region folks at a festival, in Queensland Australia. That's one thing we love doing.
     
  7. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    thanks Speedy

    Thanks Speedy.
    Jude and I with Bill and Lisa last month in Tas. He is good as gold.
    check our facebook'com/seedsaversnetwork
     
  8. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Michel I'm just starting to plant seed that I saved from last years crop. Only nasturtium and californian poppy so far as they were easy for a beginner. Can I expect that it will perform better this year because it has adapted to my local environment? Or am I just indulging in fantasy?
    I've got jicama pods drying in a paper bag for next year.

    BTW I tried soaking my loofahs in water for 10 days as you suggest in the handbook and ended up with smelly slop. I have since started to peel them and dry them on the rain water tank and it has worked well for me. If you ever get around to another edition.....
     
  9. charlesinnaloo

    charlesinnaloo Junior Member

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    Seed Savers Royalty !!!!!!! - Even though I am new here I will still say Welcome and thanks for all your hard work in this (seed saving) area over the years. I am just starting the process of collecting and locating as many rarer varieties of seed, and perennial vegetables, hybrid perennials etc in Perth WA.
    How did you find getting your rarer plants through quarantine.
    With things like yams tubers etc where seed is not easily available what did you do?
    Would love any good seed saver contacts or plant collector contacts you have in Western Australia Michel ?
    I am swapping with some folks in Lockridge Community garden, Freo Community Garden, Julie Firth in Yilgarn, planning a trip down to Jeff Nugent in Nannup when he gets back, but other than that I am only finding the odd contact in community gardens and organic gardener clubs e etc.
    My first post was https://forums.permaculture.org.au/...aliabilty-list-of-Edible-and-Medicinal-plants if your interested to give you some idea of the networking/propagation plan.

    Eco - While they should evolve in some way, the climatic conditions of each year would have a more noticeable impact. So wile after 5 years of growing the same crop you might notice some repeatable difference or change in timings/growth habit/hardiness you wouldn't be able to rate it in one year if you know what I mean. I have not noticed it since I started in Perth but then I am not planting the same crop every year and am only 3-4 years in. On the farm when I was helping my mum I cant say I paid enough attention, damn shame, I could have learnt so much more. Luckily the old girl is still alive and I am getting down there a lot more now and training up so I can plant up the place to be a sustaining nursery plant availability stock type small farm.
    Cheers,
    Charles Otway
     
  10. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Thanks Charles. I wish I had started planting stuff when I was 15.... I might know more by now. I'll just be getting the hang of it when they stick me in a nursing home!
     
  11. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    The trick isl..... change the water everyday? it is in page 111 and 112 in The Seed Savers' Handbook we recommend that daily water changing otherwise it will stink really badly.

    You are from sunshine coast Queensland in Australia. In your climate you can propagate by assisted self seeding. Put some aside as you describe in paper bag, (works well for one year which is all you need) for gifts or sales or exchange to be mercantile but the best is the seed bank in your soil. all the surprses you get.
    in the pacific people mostly replant straight away. climat too humid for storing. some maize is hanged above fiire in smoke in cook house.
    Enjoy the easy way to save seeds: repalnt them on the spot.
    BTW we are reprinting our handbook and have added a sticker "30 000 sold". Good to read your comments anyway.
    Michel
     
  12. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    I not sure how to use the buble...?? copy and paste then click the buble?
    Charles we don't move seeds when we travel from overseas. that simple and we always tick the quarantine YES because we always bring some products for home use, but not seeds: oolan tea from Taiwan, Vanilla from Tahiti, pepper from Vanuatu, India and sri lanka, Salt from East timor and Rahasthan and Afghansitan, ( from memory),seed baskets from everywhere ( again all quarantine declared) goat cheese from France ( yes allowed) we dont bring seeds in not because it is not allowed cause some are allowed if declared and clean etc, but because we are intersted to find what we have in australia that has already arrivee. I use to talk to Jack Hallam an ex NSW Ag labor minister and at the time quarantine boss ( when he lived in Byron he used to help us quite a bit ) and he told me if a plant is in australia it is considered legally ok as to itis status as an illegal import. that is after i asked him the question. sorry no time to polish this bit message.

    well some changes can be in one year but they wont be stable and uniform
    got to run we have teh whole culinary garden course five saturdays in a row starting tomorrow.,... its got to look good
    Michel and really nice to talk to Charles.
     
  13. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Thanks Michel. I'm sure I've missed a few loofahs and that it'll pop up all over the place next year. I didn't realize how prolific it is.... I planted 5 plants (seeds from the Perm Noosa Seed Savers box) and have ended up with about 200 loofahs! It's made an effective ground cover and I did try eating the small ones and leaves (both quite acceptable).

    Oh and I was changing the water daily and it still just turned to smelly slop.... Maybe its the higher temps here?
     
  14. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    Not accurately true.
    Check here for what is allowed
    https://www.aqis.gov.au/icon32/asp/homecontent.asp
     
  15. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    Thanks for comments.
    I recall asking this question 15 years ago to Jack Hallam ex head of AQUIS after bein the minister for ag. His info may have change. Question was: When people send us horticultural seeds that are obviously from an other country like Dalmatian cabbage. It was likely to have been coming in from Yougoslavia from a guy with a slavic name Note that we have recieved and entered 8700 hort seeds accesssions in our accession books (after when computers arrived on the scene in a File Maker Pro data base) How do we at Seed Savers Network treat these seeds arriving at the post office every day?? that was my question. Do we suspect them to have arrived in a women's bra at the border or do we assume that they have been duely declared and cleared?. The answer was unofficially in a friendly conversation around the table by Jack: fine dont worry fi htey are in Australia they are ok. Jack also gave me the other side of the story. An italian farmer imported illegally a number of scion of grapes and when he talked to some dept of ag dudes they asked where did you find thiese commercial italian stain/varieites/land races ? The nursery italian guy admitted he did imported them, deo of ag checkes with the quarantines records to see if they have been done legally and sure enough it was not recorded as being and passed throught glass house quarnatine and the guy got busted. That is the story Jack told me. Noihing more except i may have forgotten few details.

    As to seed everyone reading this check with the data base website in advance if you are able to (check under small quantities for personal use not commercial) of Aquis site, As for food products we biring in things all the time and we declare everything every time. We traveled to seven countries in 12 months recently to show the documentary "Our Seeds" and each time we bring produce in. We got cloves taken by quarantines from Sri lanka because of a new disease that can affect eucalyptus and we did not know about it obviiously. and also amazing quality nutmeg was taken. We just declare on the form we fill in the plane( we tick the boxes: do you have food produce? etc) and we show it to the officers. They take it away if they contain insects via visual inspection. Some seeds are prohibited because they are know as to content seed born diseases that are on the exterior of the seed and or deeper into the flesh according to level of contamination.
    as you know even withinn Australia and within USA or within other countries there are quarantines. Like Western australia does not accept maize from other states. many other exemples.
    How is the garden?
    [email protected]
     
  16. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    That is a fermentation that gets that way. The purpose of it is to stenghen the fibre with RETTING but it looses it smells when you put it in the sun.
    yes very fertile and vigourous when you have fresh seeds hey!
     
  17. seed savers

    seed savers Junior Member

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    luffa curing process aka retting

    That is a fermentation that gets that way. The purpose of it is to stenghen the fibre with RETTING but it looses it smells when you put it in the sun.
    yes very fertile and vigourous when you have fresh seeds hey!
     
  18. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

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    The 'something to declare line" is always quicker than the 'not to declare' line :)
    Except my wife may have something stuffed in her bra !!:(
    (Customs terrify me! I have visions -always- of myself looking out of the bars of some small cell in Guantanamo bay.)

    I have tried to import plants legally and found it expensive and useless. I always got a large bill and no plants.

    One day an apprentice of mine said he was taking me to a special garden that would blow my mind. He was excited and very secretive.
    He took me to a garden around Richmond/Winsor/ kurrajong? way.
    The garden had the most amazing collection of rare herbs i had ever seen. A lot of unusual variegated herbs like Golden Bay (very pretty) and other rare plants that would obviously only grow vegetativily. I was gobsmacked until. . .
    I asked where the plants came from. . .
    Turns out the guy who owned the farm worked in quarantine in the hot-house department. The same place i had made many numerous donations too.
    I was so angry i could not speak and had to leave.

    There are about 30-40 new mints in the Americas at the moment. Things like strawberry and many citrus mints. I talked to a local nurseryman about bringing them in, as I knew he had his own quarantine approved hot house and had bought in many ornamentals from China. It turns out he had given it away because of the continual beurocratic hassle; he wanted an easier life.

    When i had a small herb nursery i was continually asked for rare (for Oz) ethnic herbs, often I had to disappoint. i remember one Italian customer saying to me, when I told him the plant he wanted was probably not in Oz: "No worry, my brother, he come from Italy next week, he bring."
    ISTM as long as customs have a policing, beurocratic, obstructive attitude to people bringing in seeds and plants legally they will only encourage smuggling. Like most government departments they always achieve the exact opposite of what they are supposed to be there for (eg taxation=tax avoidance; forestry=chops down trees, environment=licenses polluters; drug wars= promotion of drugs)
     

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