kitchen greywater wormfarm filter

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by Louis, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. Louis

    Louis Junior Member

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    I've got a bathtub wormfarm under my kitchen sink's outlet to filter the water from the kitchen. It's working pretty well, and the wormies are having a party down there.

    I'm just having trouble working out what I can use in my kitchen if I want to sanitize - I attended a food health and safety course and that got me thinking... I mean, usually I'm not that paranoid, but I've also got a little baby and so I'd like to keep the kitchen well managed.

    The problem is, I don't want to use chemicals (even vinegar etc.) in the water to clean the kitchen if it's gonna burn the worms as well, or even kill the awesome microbiological life down there.

    At the course they recommend using chlorine to sanitize. I've read chlorine evaporates if you expose it to air long enough. Is this true? 'cause it seems like such an extreme chemical to have enter my system. I know it's a natural part of soil and even necessary for photosynthesis in plants, but probably in super trace amounts. Or what?

    Vinegar - how acidic is it? And does it sanitize anything, or just clean?

    Or should I just stick to good old soap and warm water? Forget the 'sanitize' bit?

    (The other thing - with soaps - this means I have a lot of heavy salts enter my system - I mean it must build up somewhere - even in the wormfarm it can't be good...)

    Esh. Is it worth all this effort to try and recycle kitchen water?
     
  2. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I don't know what you mean by sanitise. If it's a home kitchen then all you need to do is wipe down benches with hot water and let them dry. Practice good food hygiene (eg look after food well, keep things in the fridge covered), and take some extra measures when you are preparing things like chicken (especially if they came from a supermarket) eg wash the chopping board in hot soapy water and dry well, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.

    I think research has been done to show that hot water cleans things just as well as anything else (soap helps things come off easier, but doesn't make it more sterile). Chlorine routinely in a home kitchen is a ridiculous idea. You can't make a kitchen sterile and the attempt to do so obscures the need for ordinary hygiene. Also, we need some good bugs in our homes, for our own health and the general balance of things.

    What kind of dish liquid are you using?

    My understanding about grey water is that you shouldn't use it straight in the garden always in the same spot (because of the soaps and detergents). But if you're already doing this with the worms and it's working, sounds good to me.

    If you're cleaning with vinegar then you should be diluting it anyway. I doubt that it would be a problem for the worms unless you are using lots.
     
  3. Louis

    Louis Junior Member

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    cleaning = removing things that you can see and smell - mmm, clean...
    sanitizing = killing bacteria (harsh) - in case there might be dangerous ones around like salmonella, lister and those pathogenic visitors we get with some things like chicken etc. Hot water doesn't quite do this, but anyway.

    I agree that we need some bacteria around, I am all for that.
    In fact, up till now I haven't even been using soaps, I just scrape most of it into the compost, wash it clean, and then use another sink with HOT water to dunk it. The oily stuff (mostly just a pan) I leave for last, and this i scrub in the hot water, and wipe clean with a cloth that I can just wash in the laundry later. With a good washing regime this all works quite well, and no-one in my family has had any ill effects whatsoever, even the baby.

    Because I work with compost, I am aware of differences in bacteria, and so I generally keep my kitchen a happy place with no manky corners or puddles or whatever, so I think the bacteria that is around, might be friendlier ones, but who knows, that's just me, some kind of faith I guess.

    I might start using a bit of soap though.
    Still - I would like to find out if there are options that would be like the healthy version of chlorine, I would like to be able to argue with the health and safety people...
     
  4. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    I can see a place for sanitising in a commercial kitchen, where you have lots of different people touching stuff and lots of different people eating from there. Even then I'm not sure that chlorine is called for. I'd research vinegar if you want some ammunition ;-) It's pretty effective.

    I know that hot water won't kill all bacteria, but I don't think you need to kill all bacteria in a home kitchen. I was meaning just for general cleaning of benches and stuff. With special consideration given to things like commercial chickens that are the most likely to have pathogenic bacteria. But again, you probably could use diluted vinegar for that.

    That's great to hear you aren't using detergent or soap for the dishes, and the oily work around is inspired. I'm going to try that. I'm getting a new kitchen this year, and at last will have a double sink!

    Do you want to describe the worm farm filter set up? I thought there would be too much water for worms to deal with.
     
  5. Louis

    Louis Junior Member

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    I use a bathtub for the wormfarm. The water exiting my kitchen sink is small in volume compared to the size of the bath. Previously I used another sink, but it clogged a little too quick, think the ratio of water volume vs size of wormfarm container should be generous.

    I put some gravel in the bottom of the bath to help drainage so that stuff wouldn't enter the pipes, then added the wormies, a bit of food for them and some shredded newspaper (not too much to prevent the water from flowing) and then - I reckon this is important - lots of woody stuff and topped with nice chunky woodchips.

    The woody stuff makes sure greases and oils gets stuck before flowing through the rest of the filter too quickly. And depending on the head pressure of your kitchen sink, sometimes water will just plummet a hole right through it all, I reckon even placing a rock below the heaviest flow to splatter the water a bit is necessary.

    So yeah, then I cover it and check every once in a while. I think if the gunky smelly stuff accumulates on top, I would turn over the woody stuff, or top it up with more. I also don't drain scalding hot water into the filter, not sure how hot the worms can handle.

    Hope this is a clear description.
     
  6. Louis

    Louis Junior Member

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    oh, and then the water that filters out from the bath is distributed with pvc pipes to my garden, with two major outflows on an edible canna (they love generous amounts of water and the other major outflow is in a mulchbasin where I might plonk in a dwarf tree. A kitchen has a lot of water going out of it...
     
  7. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Yep, good description, thanks. So the flow through of water is quite fast? Similar to a bucket of water I add to my worm farm sometimes if too gets too dry. For some reason I had seen the bath as getting water logged.
     
  8. Louis

    Louis Junior Member

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    Do a test run, fill your kitchen sink(s) as much as you would ultimately use, even more. You can put a plug in the bath, then drain the sinks, to see how much the bath fills up. Use course rocks - a few bigger ones over the plug-hole (take the plug out now duh), then smaller... and then fill the bath with enough gravel to be above the water level. The worms will go above this. So most of the water immediately drains to the gravel level. If the rest of the filter is mostly chunky woody stuff, it won't turn into a pulp too soon, so it will drain well anyway (even if it turns to pulp I'm sure). I reckon the worms can deal with a brief temporary flooding anyway. I mean, just check it occasionally to see that it still drains, I can't see why it won't. Guess I will find out in time, it's all trial and error you know.
     
  9. abdullah

    abdullah Junior Member

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    what about alcohol? alcohol evaporates very quickly and is known to sterilise just about anything and you probably dont need a great deal just enough to wet a cloth then wipe over all surfaces, or for good measure put the plug in and douse the place, splash it around, then water it down and bucket it outside bypassing the worms.

    the only issue is where to get an apprpriate type, i guess metho might do, other wise perhaps there is some commercial type cleaning ethanol that can be obtained through wholesalers, alternatively there is those little wipes that come in first aid kits.
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day louis,

    there appears to be too much emphasis on santising homes to the extent that they are almost as germ free as an opperating theatre, this trend is driven by the makers of all sorts of cleaning fluids etc.,. to drive up sales for products we never had in the past and so far have never suffered any negative health effects from (least ways last time i looked i was still alive and kicking), you could use lemon to wipe down bench tops and even vinegar the bit of vinegar that may end up down teh sink from rinsing the clothe would be miniscule, we use vinegar to rinse our clothes and that water goes to potted plants (which only get fresh water when it rains), and the worms happily invade those pots. we use very few of those cleaning applications, we haven't had a common cold in that long i can' remember when and as for the flu around 1986 had a dose(which was related to my flagging immune sytem before i had any idea what and why it was happening another story). keep you bodies strong i take daily regular vit' C and vit' D, ad if i feel a tickle on the tonsels i up the C dosage and if needed add in some garlic/horserdish tablets early.

    we recently had our newest granddaughter live with us for the first 6 months of her life, we aren't into this modern fear hype of sanatising things and she has not been sick at all yet and at 11 months old now as healthy as ever, we need germs around us so our bodies immune systems will e strong, do't be led by this latest rend of germ free, it's all about making money. i mean who wants a toilet bowl so hygenically clean you can drink the water out of hey???? in our day all we had was thunder boxes and here i am still talking to you.

    if any concerns with the worm farm maybe you could divert that particular water to another use? i don' know that worms are super sensative to vinegar or bi-carb, the ones in our garden thrive as i have seen them do where people run the kitchen water to instead of into a grease trap or septic/sewer.

    look to what your mum did when you where in her charge.

    len
     
  11. grassroots

    grassroots Junior Member

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    Len what do you use to wash your clothes?
     
  12. Louis

    Louis Junior Member

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    thanks for that Len. Been using the vinegar now, afte the washing (just hot water to remove stuff from plates/cutlery)
    I "dunk" it in another sink of vinegar solution (minimum vinegar in hot water) and then let it airdry.

    I save the oily stuff for last, scrub most of it in the hot water and then wipe with a cloth that will go to the laundry. Then I dunk this in the vinegar solution and airdry too. I might use bicarb here if you reckon it's safe. Good to hear that.

    And yes if I've used lemon then I just squeeze out the rest and wipe it over the benches, then wipe that stuff off with the vinegar solution. Works pretty well.

    I try to keep my storage, fridge, benches, floor reasonably moisture free, I think that's where a lot of manky stuff starts happening.

    I guess this makes for a bit of acidity going into the wormfarm... Maybe some alkalnity to balance this? wgat should i add to the water before i drain it? or to the wormfarm?
     
  13. Wendy Blackwell

    Wendy Blackwell New Member

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    I'd love to hear your thoughts on the worm farm after 4 years. Are you still using it? How has time and testing altered its design, if any? what have you discovered. I'm venturing in on my own worm processor, and would love to hear about your experience.
     

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