Pig breeds.

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Woody, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. Woody

    Woody Junior Member

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    It is great that there are so many people out there who are trying to fulfill there dreams and inspiring many of us to do the same.
    Just over a year ago i moved to 10 acres in SE Qld and have really enjoyed setting up the veg garden, orchard etc. Befriending a poultry breeder enabled us to get some chickens of good heritage, a red claw producer nearby sold us some stock for a small dam. We recently bought 3 dexter cattle ,from a neighbouring breeder, which will be bred for raising meat. In 1 years time i hope to buy a least a pair (ewe & ram) of Damara sheep. So....another addition to the livestock could/would/should be pigs.
    In various different posts i've noticed that a number of people keep pigs. As a complete novice on pigs, i have a few questions for anyone who would like to answer for me.

    1) Is it possible to keep pigs in the same paddocks as sheep and cows? Either at the same time or after the sheep (Damara) /cows (Dexter) have moved to the next paddock.

    2) The little pigs destiny would be the freezer, so a great tasting pig would be great.

    3) A smaller sizes animal would be preferable but not essential, as i understand they can be butchered at 100kg or less.

    4) Do any of the breeds on have small litters?, as i would not want many little pigs or have to sell them on.

    Thanks in advance.

    Woody
     
  2. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has kept pigs with other animals too, especially sheep. Any problems with drainage, wet ground and sheep feet? And perhaps peoples experiences with required paddock sizes to keep pigs happy?

    Thanks :)
     
  3. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    This litle piggy was a naughty little piggy..

    re keeping pigs with other stock..well my intoduction to pigs was in outback NSW.An Italian with small acres on a dry creek bend with undrground water kept a magnificent desert garden producing near everything..he also kept pigs to eat what was left over.His advice was-be friendly..but Never forget..to a pig all that walks can be food-a man standing up reperesents one thing to a pig..but down and injured,"something else".. even a little piglet,caught in the wire mesh and squealing,will be turned on and eaten.

    Mnay kept them as pets-for they are intelligent..but they were like imaginary friends with personality and thoughts created for them that were probaly quite far from the pigs' reality. Often it was only after piggy ate the chooks or the pet puppy that the freindship ended.

    We kept a pair of pigs in a portable pen with an electric wire,they rooted around contented -I was also told not grow leaf or root crops where pig manure has been-we share pathogens and parasites-but ok on things like corn/pumkins .

    One friend kept hers in with sheep ok but not at lambing.That pig was a pet but eventually got savage.Another neighbour keeps theirs free range I saw their old sow follwling their miniature pony last year,relentlessly trot trot trot behind the pony nipping its hocks..pony kicked sow nipped,trot trot trot.kick nip trot.I believe she was trying to make a meal of him.They removed little pony and pig awas ok with bigger horse.Thats all I know-not much,Cheers
     
  4. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    Thanks for that Longears.

    I've known of pet pigs that have eaten chooks and ended up being eaten themselves...but I never really thought about the possiblity of a pig eating or even just harassing a sheep, but it makes perfect sense.
     
  5. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    pigs to be eaten

    We never had the set up for breeding pigs-nor wanted to-this is what we did for pork ..bought in two/three little piggies at weaning in the late Spring /early summer when they would soon be eating what was left over from our roadside veg stall and flush of milk from the dairy goats.
    At that time local winter cereal have been harvested and are at their cheapest.We used boiled barley/oats/wheat mixed with a youghurt from the goats..(it is digested better..youghurt went for chooks).the yougurt was started with a shop bought one-3 big spoonfulls per flagon,left in a warm place for the day . That way our feed costs were low.We also allowed them to graze and they rooted it up (totally)for grubs./etc.Early winter a friend could quietly kill and cut them up in return for a side.The best tasting pork ever!
    Pigs are omnivorrs and will eat anything but never feed them meat products when meant for human consumption.
     
  6. Woody

    Woody Junior Member

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    Thanks for your reply,

    I guess falling asleep in a pig pen ranks with falling asleep under a coconut tree!!

    Does anyone have any info at all on pig breeds??

    Thanks

    Woody.
     
  7. Guest

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  8. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Woody,

    My own personal experience with pigs is limited to one pig, a local breed pig I named "gregor". He was great. He ate breadnut, weevily corn, burnt beans and rice, bananas, more bananas, coco (taro), wild yam, cassava and yampi (purple ground food) and got fat.

    I have mentioned my experiences here previously, so those who have read the Strange Saga of Gregor the Pig can pass, but will mention them again: while Gregor got fat on food from our stacked polyculture, he also destroyed his house and we think he ate a chicken. I willingly concede that this may well be our fault for low protein, loneliness or something we could have done to avoid (like not putting him into the second chicken house adjacent to the "piggery").

    He was wonderful in that he converted much of our excess production into a saleable protein, and broke the fruitfly pest cycle.

    The rest of my experice is anecdotal: We live in a Kekchi Maya community, and %75 of the households raise pigs in back yard pens. The village lets them free range throughout the village, so noone can keep gardens close to the vilage, but other villages keep them penned up.Luckily, we are about 3 kilometrs up river, and our closest neighbor across the river doesn't keep any. Pigs are very valuable here socially, used for big social or family events, like house thatching, weddings, christenings, confirmation, labor exchanging corn planting days, etc. gregor was sold to our compadre for a corn planting event. They say he was very tasty.

    I have several friends who raise pigs, "local" varieties and large whites, which grow very fast, and eat anything, but large whites prefer higher protein food, or local food supplemented with "pig ration". Most of them swear by the large white pigs, saying that the energy they spend on the pig is well rewarded for the extra weight and market value at slaughter time. However, I have to admit that 800 lb pigs intimidate me, a bit, so I would prefer to raise smaller local pigs that eat local food without extra protein and are easier to deal with!~

    For a way to convert crops with limited market value, or crops that will spoil before reaching market to valuable saleable protein and nutrient rich manure, pigs are great. We don't eat meat, but I really like the way pigs fit into the whole farm ecology/economy, and even my pig hating wife, Dawn, who is concerned about pig/human shared pathogens like tapeworm, and her fear of pigs going feral, or vicious, admits that pigs have a place on a farm, but just not this one :lol:

    I think the questions I asked myself before we ran our mixed total success (gregor got fat on bananas, breadnut and other on farm products, and we sold him for a modest profit, hooray!)/disaster(gregor ate a chicken, wrecked his house and made his area a fetid place, not-so-hooray!) has more to do with our inadequate preparation and lack of appropriate infrastructure for him than his behaviour as a pig was "How big a pig do I want to have to deal with?" and "How much energy do I want to put into trying my hand at raising pigs?"

    Having said all of that, if I ever raise pigs here again (and I would love to, if I could get Dawn behind it) I think I would prefer to raise four or five of them as the time to tend to one is not that much less than the time to rase four or five of them, and I would design their housing better than our first attempt.

    I hope that some of this info is useful to you.

    C
     
  9. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    some where someone said ( cant find it again ) it isnt wise to use pig manure on veggies because pig diseases can infect humans

    is this true and how much of a problem is it ?

    we can buy some composted pig manure ( I am also not sure just how composted it is ) from a piggery and as you probably know we badly need soil nutrients ......... but is it worth the risk ?

    also am I wrong in think pig manure would have less pesticide residues than sheep or cows ? I am basing this mainly on the fact ( hopefully ) that pigs dont get dipped or have pour on stuff put on them

    frosty
     
  10. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    re pig murders/breeds

    Not wanting to be boring about pigs eating habits ,but I am baseing what I said re their eating anything on real long life experiences of domestic pigs -who were not kept hungry or mistreated..they just did what pigs will do sometimes..and once is too many times.They are omnivores and in a natural state regularly eat anything and everything,they are the bane of people living next to many national parks as they attack and eat the ewes as they lamb.What a pig does running from hunters is to follow his instincts to escape-he is not worried about eating then but if the shoe was on the other foot and the hunter down and wounded,well miss piggy will be baaak..
    and Mr Hunter will get a taste of what its like to beome a meal.Fact.

    As domestic animals they also quite often are raised eating no animal products(I think this is the best way personally..and for several reasons including flavour and absense of zoonosises)but that does not switch off instincts-that story about them turning on a piglet trapped and squealing is true &is no aberration.The instincts are all "go".And the sow I saw relentlessly trotting after thatb pony-well I would never have believed it until I stood and watched and saw that fat old sow was not just chasing him but was trying to wear the little pony out or get him to make a mistake and I believe she would have then make him a meal. The most anmaxzing thing was her fitmness-she was a big old fat sow but was never a step behind that little mini pony.trot trot trot.nip trot trot trot bite ..believe me!
    After decades of observation and listening to others experiences would not only be unsurprised at a pig eating another animal in fact I would expect it over time given the chance ..No matter what they are fed,they remain what the are..omnivores.Last year there was on tv a program about a nurse who brings children from places like romania,Slovenia etc to Australia for operations that can change their life..she funds it all from donations etc..and many of the terrible terrible facial injuries the childern present with were caused by the household pig finding baby in the crib and attracted by the smell of milk around baby-the ones who survive are left with the most terrible injuries.If from what I have said just one person hears and heeds..well maybe it will be worth it to them.

    Pigs kept in the right conditions are no trouble and the right conditions in my mind include the pigs having enough nutritious food/shelter(but a food satisfied pig?the ones I have known were opportunistic &hungry again very soon!). -in my household,no access was allowed to anything small I didn't want eaten in the moment pig forgets he is a civilised pig.

    I have been heart in mouth so many times with newcomers who get a pig or raise it as a pet and let it roam where it will..it seems to go well for a few years and then they are surprised and ,often and unfairly angry at the pig!Similarly I get people who want to buy a riding animal and say things like will ever kick?The answer is ..well it never has me or mine and thats because we have earned their respect and even affection,we have trained them and we understand theall equines have an instinct to kick and we do not place ouselves in a position to be kicked.I guess we have just always been raised to be of this nature..and I mean no offence to any peace loving pigs who have lived in mixed communities all their 20 yrs and never once was tempted.This is not about you.

    I am never believed that their friendly old martha will eventually get cranky.Or that the pet lamb will eventully chase and but them ,hard even the rooster or turkey might get a bit stroppy with little kids etc.Even some of my (well fed)hens used to catch mice /lizards and so on..same deal..they are omnivores so it is not surprising.
    As for breeds-we liked durocs but that was just cause they were availbl locally and from fee range suituations so we thought them hardy.Also they did not sunburn as white ones can.Flop eared breeds are reputed to be quiter as the ears restrict their vision.Some breeds might run to fat too much,but if they are killed as porkers then thats not a prob.The best flavoured ones we had ate the wheel barrows of of strawberriesas we used no poison for snails and slugs were out of control that year..we fed anything damaged to piggies along wiht the youghurt and veggies and cereal porrige .We did once grow a small paddock of jerusalum artichokes as they are so easy,persistant and the pigs dig them up in early winter-good fodder for them.
    As to disease from manure-well the advice I passed on was what I was told in an article years ago.It would be safe to use composted manure on crops that have no contact..like tall corn,hard shelled vegetbales such as pumkins but not on leaf or root crops that might be eated raw.Pigs and humans do share some things other .Its something that is easily managed.Because I am old enough to know that people often caught diseases from their farm animal(TB BrucelousisQ fever etc)I do unapolagetically err on the side of caution-we'r here for the long run.Cheers.
     
  11. Woody

    Woody Junior Member

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    Thanks for all the replies,
    Some of the replies have turned my wife off even further to having a pig!
    What with having a baby next week, and a fluffy little dog around the house!
    If i did manage to pursuade her i would definately keep the pig out of the paddocks that had any other livestock in them.
    One idea i had for the pig was to act as a plough and to dig up the paddocks after the cows and sheep had left, and then to sow a grass seed to improve the pasture for next time the cows and sheep return.
    I did however find out a piece of information from my neighbouring dexter breeder and sheep (merino, i think) breeder, he says that if pasture is improved too much for sheep then they begin to have health problems!!
    So maybe with hardy Dexters and supposedly very hardy Damara sheep i hope to get, then the pigs chores will be limited.

    Woody
     
  12. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    Hi there-I hope my replies did not turn you of.they were not meant to thts for sure.I am just too old to be a newbie and call it as I have seen it.All animals have there pro and cons-don't be ever be daunted just be aware and all will be well.

    I have had very little trouble with any livestock and I believe it was because of always trying to cross my tt's and dot my iii rather than learn the hard way.Or rather the animal has the hard way- the owner get the vet bills or digs the hole.I aways listen to oldies(before I became one)-sometimes their advice made no sense or I disagreed at the time-but I stored it away for reference an further mental evaluation&cross referencing.Some research into animal behavours/trits and husbandry..and you will be ok the rest is just experience and fun gathering it.

    By the way we currently have a few damaras and a new Wiltshire ram.The damaras sure seem easykeepers allright-but for some reason they are very very flightly I have never had sheep like them.They came cautiously to be hand fed during the months of drought but keep a huge'flight' zone around them.they hit the fences if approached and are going to be difficult to catch without some well thought out races.-the new Wiltie young ram is already miles quieter then they are?Is this a characteristic? I know they have a strong herding instinct these are never are more than a meter from each other.Could it be that we have just 3 and that does not represent a safe herd size to them?I like our aminals to be easily handled and this bothers me.We have had them over 6 months with little improvement and hand fed twice a day.Anyone with experience of a few damaras?they came from a big station..but then the other sheep we have had were too.
     
  13. Guest

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  14. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    he- he I've gues earnt myself that one-"oltimer"-ouch!I am not that ancient just that I am old as far as having messed around with all sorts of domestic animals all my life-so far(wheras most farmers these days tend to be specialists)
    Resume-Poultry -just hens and ordianry fowl like geese and guineas etc-know enough to keep out of trouble-
    Goats-milked and bred them for 15yrs so I am comfortable there..
    few beef cows and a hundred or so handraised on goat milk or poddied on the house cow -lost 2 which is pretty good considering.
    Horses-can ride drive or snig etc-
    Donkeys -can have a unhandled donkey under saddle or harness or packsaddle single ot team working well within a very short time-such nice animals-
    Mules-know enough to work the ones we have and thats a thing to be quietly proud of..
    Dogs -have had the nicest working little goat dog anyone could ever wih for in a lifetime.There won't be any other-other assorted muts that are all loyal friends and honour our rules.
    Pigs-well thats all been said.
    Sheep-well before The Damaras..we had a few coloured sheep-meat&wool.They would come to the call.THese Damaras-when I say they have a bigger "flight bubble' mate- that is after over 6months of hand feeding first in the paddock..then in order to quieten them,in a large yard..but they have not improved much at all.As I said,the young witshire ram is quieter after being here just 3 days-he actually baaed to me today.He already knows I bring the feed,The damaras are maybe going to learn from him-but they even run from him and won't eat while he eats..

    Some strains of any animal may be flighty-had wellsumers once that were the nasiest roosters I have ever owned-and we hatched them -the hens were so quiet they used to roost on my arm.I gave then away to a poultry fancier-as they were rare then and I think he thought I was ignorant -just knew he thought I was exagerating..some months later he graciously admitted they were the worst line of roosters he had ever handled and he no longer owned them either .

    I don't kno why-but I have been in a few situations where I have been completely honest with people and they seem not to believe me.I must look pretty stoopid I think.Comes in handy sometimes though -like the timeI had a nice black small draft mare-pit size if that means anything to you-she bolted a few times-I wanted to do a trade with a dealer-I knew he sized me up as a greenhorn and was happy to trade for that mare even though I told him what she had done.he just must have thought he was a better judge of horses.Last time I heard she was retireing to stud-but not before she had smashed up his harness and wagon ..Pity he didn't ask - I could have told him she was infertile as well.

    Anyway-I will just persist with the damaras-I might visit someone else with them and see---because they have a different ethic regards flocking together-much stronger than other sheep-it may well be that they do better in larger numbers I am thinking-unless they have been born to it.

    These came from a big mob of station sheeep that would not have been mustered very often as they don't need shearing/crutching and the like so may not have had any contact except for whan they were mustered to sell.But even so-we used to get feral donkey and goats and they were extremly easy to tame.. cheers.
     
  15. baringapark

    baringapark Junior Member

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    Hi Woody

    I have 2 one year old large black females. I got them when they were 10 days old as I was clucky for a baby...my youngest had turned 2 and there were no more human babies on the horizon. They are big beautiful girls and I still cuddle them every day. I do not have them in with other animals. I do use them to plow so I can re-sow, but it took them a long time before they did actually do any digging. After a big rain they realised they could. They are really more of a grazing breed apparently. They are gentle souls and I trust them when I am around them, but do not let the kids in as they can get scared and be bowled over (the kids not the pigs). I just brought in a boar and he too is docile. He had not been handled or treated as a pet and still is a quiet, gentle soul.

    The large whites and Tamworths are supposed to be fiestier, but my Large Blacks are just part of the family. The big lop ears mean they can't see too well, but most pigs use their nose and ears as their main sensory organs anyway I think.

    Don't be put off. If you manage them properly they are a great animal to have around. We have a hotwire around the fenceline as our fences are not too good and I can't afford to have them in the garden. Paige did get out once, but I was not worried for the safetly of humans or other animals, just worried because she found some broiler grower and I did not want her to get sick!!

    Hope this helps.

    Should have some piglets in about 4 or 5 months if you are interested in this wonderful rare breed.


    cheers

    Elizabeth
     
  16. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    docile

    Your pigs sound great-and they are one breed i have heard as good for the reasons you mention.

    I just want to add one thing regards "docility".Sometimes it is this very quality that gets folk into trouble..as when the hormones switch on-or the teritorial instincts are alerted..the change is completly unexpected.I tell my kids- Enjoy them, return their friendship(docility) but always remember the rules-they are animals with strong instintual reactions and they do not see us as we see them.

    When the dog bites/the horse kicks/thenewly calved cow charges/it it the docile ones that often do the damage because they have been taken for grantedAnd so often the cry will go up-he/she has never done this before.Thats all I wanted to say but I guess -no-one wants to hear that their friend may not quite recipicate the feeling humnas have for their animal.Dogs and working donkeys seem to come the closest but even they must first obey mother natures gifts .But perhaps I 've said enough-time to let it go i think..but hope not to see Darwins theorys in action.Cheers
     
  17. Guest

    Its good advice Longears...we do need to accept animals and their natural behaviours and responses. Most herd animals are contact friendly and touch is often a big part of their play behaviours - and also their communication. If we focus more on understanding their herd behaviours the transition into our "herd" can be a lot easier and much more enjoyable. Defence postures do need to be recognised...if we take the time to do this, we can avoid a lot of injuries (to us and them) that often occur as the result of handling, containment and domestication.

    I am also a fan of Charlies work. I'm not understanding your warning or threat that his theory would result in a bad thing though? The theory of natural selection is taking place all around us. It's a part of natural existence. We work against it sometimes, when we nurture the runts or protect the weak or threatened...and in choosing to do so, really do need to remain aware that we are actually doing this and continue the commitment to care for, respect and protect them.

    Animals responding to poor treatment, poor health or presenting normal developmental behaviours are responding to his theory - in that they will fight to survive and to exist within their herds/packs/prides etc and the larger environment - but why is that something we should fear or consider a threat? Recognising the defense postures that occur before fight and flight behaviours as being an animals way of communicating is an important part our natural and harmonious existence among them.

    Animals don't punish to teach. Unlike humans who still think it works. When an animals defends itself, its not saying "I'm bigger, better and the best" - its more a statement of "Don't hurt me". The theory of natural selection is a theory based on evolution...survival of the species.... all species.

    So, I'm not sure what it is you keep referring to as a threat to mankind?
     
  18. longears

    longears Junior Member

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    Yes, I think we are on the same track, and have maybe just interpreted some aspects of his theory differently...and should probably open another thread on this or I will end up deviating heaps far from Pig Breeds :lol: Could talk about his for hours...

    Am supposed to be in town now !!! :shock: But now ya got me inspired, because it is good to find someone else who is interested in it...Will go start a new thread and just make it a quickie for now.
     
  20. ~Tullymoor~

    ~Tullymoor~ Junior Member

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    Deleted this post, sorry Elizabeth, I meant no offence to you.
    I actually didn't see your post at the end of page one until now when I saw your response and went and checked.
    I'll go back under my rock now. :oops: :oops: :oops:
     

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