composting toilet

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by missf, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. missf

    missf Junior Member

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    yes we need to build one. Im asking once again for people s experiences. the dos and donts and mistakes made and little gems found whilst building a composting toilet. also any advice at all or a great workable plan is also appreciated... thanks to all ...
     
  2. Ice Czar

    Ice Czar Junior Member

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  3. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: composting toilet

    g'day missf,

    for us it was the nature-loo, no regretts would do it all over again no worries, too easy and too simple, versatility plus.

    i used to have a book for plans to make very similar system, but sold that long ago, the fellow who sold the plans no longer does so. why didn't i make my own? time did not permit.

    but if you saw a nature loo it would be very easy to make one using plastic 44 gallon drums, actually saw one in action, no worries.

    len
     
  4. Cyna

    Cyna Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    I have had a nature loo for four years and would not recommend it.
    The chamber is too large for easy movement, it took four or five times of emptying it before I had developed a good system. Now it is a 30 minute job every three months, but it is still a very bulky unit, for example my wife would not be able to do it by herself.
    The unit is supplied with two drums, but we had to buy a third to make it through the winter.
    It smells, the supplied fan appears to be fairly useless, looks like a small computer fan. Now looking for a stronger size-suitable fan.
    Quality of the unit is debatable, eg there is a half inch gap between bottom of seat and pedestal, the metal axle that holds the seat has corroded, a crack has appeared in the pedestal near one of the mounting screws.
    Apart from that, it works well. It would not be quick to build one of this style, although outdoors would be better, as the build quality could be lower.
    If I was doing it again, I would investigate the rota loo type designs, where one small chamber is emptied more often, but much easier.
    If you have the space and live on a good slope, the Clivus Multrim design looks easier to build.
     
  5. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: composting toilet

    g'day cyna,

    wow what can i say for us the very opposite yes the drums can get heavy but then we chose no to fill them totally made it lots easier to handle, and having extra drums to do this would be no issue as they pretty much wouldn't be wearing out hey? we sued worms for the composting and ended up with worm wee in the bottom as well to collect, used a post hole shovel carefully to basically collect a good big wheel barrow sized load of product for the garden.

    anyway we didn't use the elect' fan we opted for the wind turbine on top of the vent pipe, worked a dream never ever had any smell, but then we ran a dry box opting to collect most urine apart from incidental urine, seperate and mix that with water for the gardens.

    we had wooden seat and it had no gap just a foam rubber lining between it and the pedistal. did you contact n/l about the crack in the pedistal? we had a crack develop in the wooden seat and contacted them by e/mail and they posted another seat post haste with no requirement to return broken one, they are very nice people to deal with as we found, that sort of hassle free service is hard to get.

    you onviously haven't researched the rota-loo it is a carousal type affiar with say 5 boxes (lack of versatility means if you buy too small boxes and want to move up to bigger you need to replace all boxes and whatever) anyhow it works like this as a box fills you turn the carousel to bring an empty box into play, now that full box drags the carousel off center so you need to block it up to hold it level, now when that full box ends up at the needed to be used end that is when you empty it. also had someone complain that after all that time toilet paper doesn't all break down, never had any issues with n/l. but then they can't keep everyone happy hey chuckle?

    and as for clivus they are expensive and either need use of water or power, n/l needs neither.

    and the home made version of n/l would not be difficult for the handyman the one we saw looked neat to say the least, the price would be almost impossible to beat.

    len
     
  6. dgriffith

    dgriffith Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    .... until the local council got wind of it. By default they take a dim view of any home-made toilet system. They'll let containers-as-houses-slide, they don't give a rats about dodgy electrical wiring, but if anyone ever whispers that you've a home-made loo on the property they'll be all over you with Notice To Comply's and Demolition Orders and such.

    To easily get past the council it needs to be certified to various standards, with a little bit of paper saying so and under what conditions. That little bit of paper is what you are paying for when you buy a composting (or any 'alternative') toilet. Don't mess about with something you can't *prove* is certified - unless you want to go through a lot of rigmarole with the council, who will generally be baffled as to why you want to DIY instead of picking one of the growing number of composting toilets/systems on the market.

    Well, they won't be baffled, you'll just be met with a wall of bureaucracy - they will simply say, "your loo has to meet this, that and this other criteria and we need plans/testing/paperwork to prove this and oh, maybe some ongoing testing if it's really novel or different to anything we've seen before, so that we can rest assured that in mid-winter or after a foot of rain or after a big party at your place with 10 people using it, it won't all end up as raw sewage draining into the next door neighbours yard." It doesn't matter to them if you're on 40 acres and that it's a big improvement over the long drop, Them's The Rules.


    (Hmm, I sound awfully cynical about the whole thing. Perhaps it's time for bed. :lol: )
     
  7. paul wheaton

    paul wheaton Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    Anybody tried the whole "tree bog" thing?

    It does seem pretty universal that if you keep the pee separate, everything tends to work out much better. And the whole pee catcher toward the front of the hole seems to be a big help.

    I kinda wonder about something that is a bit of a combination between the tree bog and a "dry outhouse" (no pee). Maybe the willow roots would consume enough that the hole in the ground would never fill up.
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: composting toilet

    are we talking about the same toilet??? the diy unit i am talking about is an exact replica of the nature-loo version, so got no idea how raw sewage could end up anywhere but in the drum, and also can't imagine how rain could get involved unless the toilet had no roof.

    len
     
  9. Eduardo

    Eduardo New Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    Hello All,

    We area household of 2 an have been using the Nature Loo classic for about 7 years. I find it easy to use, but I have noticed some issues that others have mentioned. I have made a trolley for the chamber to sit on, so that it can be pulled out of position when full, as it can be heavy and cumbersome to move when full. I'll probably have to add some kind of winching system for when I get old and grey.

    I had some troubles with the fan burning out, but the producers came out with a slightly stronger fan a couple of years ago and that solved my issue, which stemmed from having the vent pipe being quite long and having 2 90 degree bends in it. I have also added a spin-a-way fan to the top of the pipe and painted the top 2m of the pipe black.

    I also put duct tape around all the joins as a way of keeping insect out. We bought a third chamber, and it takes about 6 months to fill one, so we rotate the chanbers after 12 months of composting. I have noticed some anaerobic conditions in some parts of some of the piles I've emptied. I am now experimenting with slotted ag pipe to increase the oxygenation through the inner section of the pile.

    I have a question on the general issue of composting toilets, which is about methods of adding carbon to the pile. Has anyone ever tried adding sugar or powdered charcoal to the pile to increase the carbon to nitrogen ratio? I am aware of a clivus multrum (not sure of the spelling there) system which is not managed very well, and has a very (very very) strong ammonia smell associated with it. The users of this system are not adding any additional carbon, and the tendency for peak loading of this particular loo means that extra volume will be problematic, hence I've thought that sugar being low volume and high carbon might be a solution.

    Anyone got any thoughts or ideas?
     
  10. Noz

    Noz Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    Derek Hobbes in Western Australia used to make some composting toilets very cheaply - $300 a few years back. They weren't approved, but they worked well and he'd had everything tested to see the microbial activity etc and they were very safe.

    I'd strongly discourage permaculturalists from using a system that requires electricity (coal) to dry the material. This waste should be a resource... not a waste that requires an input of fuel continuously simply to manage it.
     
  11. Noz

    Noz Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    I don't think that sugar would be helpful, in the same way that I wouldn't add it to a compost heap because I would expect it to either ferment or attract insects - or both.
    Charcoal might help reduce the odors.
    But I would try and use either saw-dust, scrap paper in fine pieces or other high carbon, low nitrogen ingredients.
     
  12. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: composting toilet

    yeh i can't see it helping either, good when applied to gardens before planting to control nematodes though.

    we had a nature loo found out that saw "dust" as such can pack down, wood shavings better from untreated wood.

    as wood shavings were hard to get we use muchroom compost (we dried it out of moisture first), we also used composting worms to work our bins.

    len
     
  13. drrdave27

    drrdave27 Junior Member

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  14. Cyna

    Cyna Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    I think what dgriffin is talking about is the general regulations, not specifically the nature loo.
    Len, it sounds like you live in a different climate to me with different needs for a composting toilet, (a waterless toilet is more accurate).
    It is hard enough to get teenagers to use one without having to having to collect urine separately. Ours is inside for the same reason, teenagers.
    Yes I could empty it more, but that is more time out of my life, and wouldn't mitigate the smell.
    When the wind doesn't blow and move your turbine, do you still have no smell? How is that possible? Doesn't your shit stink like everyone else?
    I have researched the rota loo and have spoken to people who have one and they have said nothing bad about them.
    Am I correct in assuming you don't even have one anymore?
    Eduardo, yes a trolley of some kind is necessary, I have though about having the chamber sit on rollers so that it can be rolled straight onto a four wheel trolley for transport to the designated area. The spinaway fan is the next step for me and the solar chimney may be helpful too. It is certainly not a set and forget option. I think I would go for a rota loo type next time.
    If you're happy to go outside, why not build a long drop, we had one for two years while we were building and it was fine. (Council didn't know about it though).
     
  15. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: composting toilet

    nope never had smell when no wind, could see the benefit in painting the spinner and top 1 meter black, but never got around to doing it, as we had no smell, reckon my poop would smell like all others but because we had a composting toilet that doesn't mean the toilet need smell. they only smell when not run properly.

    well i have seen where others complain about it and i would see that as it is not as simple a system as nature-loo but to each his own. for one they r/l could not be as verstaile as if you need extra capacity you have to buy a whole set of bigger drums/boxes, with n/l you just add another out of service drum too easy. i've seen where they complained about r/l needing to be blocked up with a brick on the full drum side so it would sit horizontal, and also seen complaints about the system not handling toilet paper very well. also it's dearer isn't it?

    only about 1 disatisfied n/l customer out there that i know about all others very happy many have bought after talking with me. yes can see the need for a trolley and the n/l we had is called a long drop EPA approved. yes n/l is waterless that's what makes it so good.

    maybe the teenagers will have homes of their own one day and they may see the wisdom in conserving and re-using? the toilet we built worked well no one ever complained and that includes our grand children all who used the bucket when peeing. no we no longer have one because we are back in suburbia but when i am able to get hold of a commode seat i will use the sawdust bucket system as described in humanure, so at least i will be recycling my waste.

    len
     
  16. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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  17. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    Hi, we looked after my step brothers house with a composting loo and the only problem he had was when the wood dust they were using got sucked up the fan and burnt it out - they were in a rental and it took 2 weeks (in summer!) to get the agent to sort out a replacement. So go the wood shavings and make sure you have a replacement fan/whirly bird. :D
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    Re: composting toilet

    g'day sueinWA,

    for me that systems is well outside the Keep It Simple protocol i like to use and see. also looks somewhat expensive a design starting with the use of solar panels, a point i don't think they get to is you might also need storage batteries for those days when there is no sun, then a small wind genertor could be incorporated as well, just gets more expensive but hey? 1/2 of each day is night time (on average) and for most about 1/3 of the days in a calender year are rain or cloudy.

    mmm springtide,

    what system was it? with n/l there is no way that something as you described could ever happen.

    len
     
  19. scottjunner

    scottjunner Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    Did use the Humanure Handbook method once. Didn't find any problem with it. We used saw dust and long grass collected from around the driveway. Definately not council approved though. Ahh...love a good pile of poo.
     
  20. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Re: composting toilet

    I have a composting toilet, and I got the WRONG style, and was seduced by their website, and I regret it very much. I am in the US, and this is a Canadian brand, Environlet, and it doesn't have any stirrer or tumbler, only some metal "knives" on a handle that you are supposed to shove back and forth. Once the thing fills even part way, the frame with knives doesn't move an inch. They also tell you that you must buy their brand of bacteria as well, of course that's in the back, back, back part of the website, and I never came upon it, until I had problems. I also tried to help someone who posted here who had a family of 4, and it took way too long to break down and left them stranded in Canada in the winter with nowhere to put it all.

    But it was expensive so I had to make it work. The style that works well has a stirring mechanism, Sun-mar https://www.sun-mar.com/

    and I use damp dirt from under a tree where the leaves have broken down, the sort of natural compost layer under the leaves, to cover each deposit. I put casters facing upward, on a frame on the bottom of the unit, and mounted a metal BBQ barrel-shaped basket on top of that with a trap door that is built into the basket. The basket has openings like hardware cloth, and rolls on the casters (instead of like a composting bin with a rod through the middle) and stirs easily.

    It is slower in the winter than in the summer, but it shrinks nicely, kind of all of a sudden. I have a spare barrel in case the first one doesn't break down in time. This is the same basket that attaches to a BBQ that has a motor that spins it with a square rod through it, so if I had electricity I could attach it to a motor. But it's not really necessary.

    I think if the countries that have sewage disposal problems and disease were taught to use composting toilets, their lives would improve immensely. I can't believe that this method of composting isn't more widely used, it is one of the best I've found.
     

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