Artificial happiness?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by springtide, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have had the thought for a couple of years that if there was a global recession about now then prices of oil, housing, etc would be held in check or even drop (the lousy Aussie dollar isn't helping oil much) as demand would have to stabilise. Then as things go back to normal all of the restrained spending would be "released" or reinstated at a higher rate with more people and a greater need for "stuff" after starving generation Y and Z for a bit.
    I am mostly a peaknik but i can see some validity in the doomer idea - and i would like to ask the room - does the time frame of 12 to 18 months (the time that it will probably take for all this bank benevolence to actually renew some confidance in the system) seem like a time for a doomsday?
    Will the next boom be some kind of dystopian artificiall happiness?
     
  2. sampsms

    sampsms Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    hi, having read a book about the future recession due late 90's early 2000's, and then having ignored the warnings, I agree with you. the x and y generation need a wake up.. spend ,spend , spend does not contribute to or even protect the community..or the climate.

    I think there will be more doom and gloom as more self interest groups will cry out for government assistance, while the unemployed and low incomers will be pressured to reduce their footrpint. already we see people focusing on plastic bags and turning the lights off (YOU DONT see business being encouraged to turn their lights off do you?) while they dash around needlessly in their high octane off roaders, and gulp and guzzle their way through life like hungry catepillars.

    After much thought, I think the recovery will stumble along and should be back to normal by early 2010.. (by normal..I mean the same greedy selfish way we have witnessed over the past 20,30,40 years .)
    learn free at www permaculturevisons dot com and or visit my pages at http climatechangeandyou blogspot dot com etc.
    Mega at sampsms
     
  3. Tim Auld

    Tim Auld Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    What basis is there for believing there will be a recovery? Because that's what has happened in the past? This view ignores the structural change that peak oil presents. Economic growth as we are used to it requires surplus energy. Where will this come from when the production of oil and other resources that need it for extraction and distribution go into permanent decline?

    This drop in oil price is deceptive. The decline in demand is modest (less than 5% in the US) relative to the drop in price. Meanwhile, depletion creeps up and investment declines. We may see cascading failure as the raw materials necessary to make use of modern built infrastructure are withdrawn through economic reality. It will become clear that there was inadequate contingency planning. A return to "normal" is unlikely, though pockets will remain longer than others.
     
  4. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  5. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    "........Unless I be relieved by prayer,
    Which pierces so that it assaults
    Mercy itself and frees all faults.
    As you from crimes would pardon'd be,
    Let your indulgence set me free."

    Yeah i need a some break, but those epsilon blue hats don't look cool enough.

    Cheers for that Ojo.
     
  6. sampsms

    sampsms Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    Why do I think that there will be financial recovery?

    I acknowledge and agree with your thought on oil, but I think there is a bigger picture to consider. that is the "cycle of money". there are some people with more money than countries, companies and banks and especially super funds have excess money at various times.
    Compulsory super in Australia created a huge flow of money, which, if invested at bank rates would not give the super funds enough money to pay dividends and their customers would leave them and go to another fund or else manage their super themselves.
    therefore, I think this flow of money will have to be re-invested in the stockmarket.
    then a recovery will start to occur. meanwhile most companies are appealing to their shareholders to buy more shares and virtually give them a loan. The banks aren't lending, so they have to raise more money for future investment themselves, and will have to lift their game.. I balme all this on the banks..for predatory lending inthe first place, then 3-4 days of refusing to end to each other, clamping down on lending and now benefiting by government sympathy. "the poor banks" as the treasure said....watch thier huge profit next June..
     
  7. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    Because of the above problems, I just grow as much as I can. Being no expert, I have many failures and disasters, but today i brought inside one egg, three mangoes, three pawpaws, some parsley for tonight's sauce, and some chinese cabbage also for dinner. We drink three or four kinds of herbal tea, currently brahmi, mint, lemon balm, and sometimes chamomile from my garden. I wish I could do a permaculture course, and I wish I had the technical expertise and knowledge of many people here - a bit more income than the basic Australian pension would also be a help, but even so, I manage to do a fair bit. I'm a good scavenger for hardware - many bean climbing frames, one home made compost bin, and garden edging are all rescued from the dump. Failures include carrots (just didn't get big), brassicas of various kinds (sub-tropical weather), onions (don't know why), broad beans (don't like temperature fluctuations) and spuds (lots of leaves - no spuds below.)

    A free online or TV course for skint gardeners would be wonderful. I enjoy Gardening Australia, but they do assume a fair bit more disposable income than I, and many others, have. For instance, they say 'get your soil tested', but even that is unaffordable. I work it out by what grows well and what doesn't. Meanwhile I'm writing my own book on managing on next to nothing - it includes many things, including cooking, sensible shopping, transport, health care, and as much gardening as I can be confident about.

    I trust my garden more than the economy.
     
  8. Tim Auld

    Tim Auld Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    Sampsms, the banks really are insolvent and they won't be turning a profit. The fractional reserve and compound interest banking system guaranteed that this would happen at some point, regardless of how careless they were. Claims on wealth exceed the ability of the planet to satisfy them, growth necessary to feed the system would stall, and a mass wave of defaults and the exposure of losses would occur. All the money you talk about is rapidly evaporating via deflation. The difference this time is that we've squandered our best resources, damaged our environment, and exceeded the carrying capacity of the planet. Any future Ponzi schemes must necessarily be at a smaller scale. I can't see how there could be a return to "normal".
     
  9. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    We are probably all familiar with the terms"inflation" and "deflation" but i saw it in a different light the otherday when someone pointed out that when a bank gives you money for a home loan they dont actually have all that money in savings and investments so when you pay the seller - that "extra" money appears into existance and becomes numbers on a computer, when someone goes bankrupt or a house/car gets repossesed and sold at less than the amount owing the money simply dissappears - there is no true "reserve" of cash or gold. So probably 50% or more of all money never really had any true substance or material representation.
    I think we all should trust our gardens more than the economy - at least we know it exists and gives us something real in return.
     
  10. sampsms

    sampsms Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    Hi JoanVL, aside from the global financial situation and whether my earlier comments are wrong or not..which they could be.. only time will tell.
    I , like you, go out to my garden and never fail to be amazed at the power of one seed, and the power of one peson.
    I just thought I would write and tell you that www.permaculturevisions.com have about 60 pages of free stuff on permaculture on the webpage, and also gives student scholarships, and will exchange a course for something you can offer... like webpage design, etc or you can just go there and say you want to learn but are living below the breadline. Say sampsms said to try and see if you can start free or whatever and then progress.. no guarantees, but give it a go. The important thing is to sart on the first step. You just have to ask.
    Permaculture people are helping, caring and supportive.

     
  11. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    [quote="sampsms"]Hi JoanVL, aside from the global financial situation and whether my earlier comments are wrong or not..which they could be.. only time will tell.
    I , like you, go out to my garden and never fail to be amazed at the power of one seed, and the power of one peson.
    I just thought I would write and tell you that https://www.permaculturevisions.com have about 60 pages of free stuff on permaculture on the webpage, and also gives student scholarships, and will exchange a course for something you can offer... like webpage design, etc or you can just go there and say you want to learn but are living below the breadline. Say sampsms said to try and see if you can start free or whatever and then progress.. no guarantees, but give it a go. The important thing is to sart on the first step. You just have to ask.
    Permaculture people are helping, caring and supportive.

    Thank you for that link - I'll have a good look at it tomorrow. The one thing I can offer is translating any relevant texts from German sites: they love their gardens just as we do, and have a healthy respect for wild food. It was terrible for East Germans after Chernobyl, because their usual habit of going out into the local wood and picking something to put in their sandwiches, eg dandelion leaves, was suddenly verboten. (German is my second language: I'm originally from Yorkshire).
     
  12. Michaelangelica

    Michaelangelica Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,771
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    thanks I din't know about that link either

    Could you please keep an eye open for research papers in German on "Terra preta" ,"biochar", "charcoal agriculture"
    A "google scholar' search might give you some starting point

    The Germans tend to do some great modern research on medicinal herbs too.
    This rarely makes its way to us.

    Ich bedanke mich! ?
    m
     
  13. springtide

    springtide Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Artificial happiness?

    Hi all, this link is an abbreviated version of IOUSA and i have to reccomend it, there are a lot of things that could sink our society but debt means that we may not be able to afford to solve any of them - this could sink the US and most countries that are associated with it - if a resources strapped China, Japan and Middle East had financial controll over "the leader of the free world" TS would definately HTF.
    Let's hope number 44 is all the US hopes he is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo
     

Share This Page

-->