HAS THE WORM TURNED?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by TriciaM, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    (1) Armed with the invaluable advice I received from this forum I set up my worm farm and all went well until I came across this gem on page 108 of The Owner-Built Homestead by B and K Kern [highly recommended by the mastro of permaculture, Bill Mollison]
    Quote: The earthworm has no mechanism for creating exceptional plant food, for capturing solar energy, or for fixing nitrogen from the air. Earthworm movement creates insignificant soil aeration, and there is no unusual amount of richness to be gleaned from its castings. The leafy diet of the earthworm is especially low in mineral content, and to the extent that the earthworm feeds on the organic content of humus, it burns energy and reduces soil fertility. Unquote.
    Crash went my dream of helping to rejuvenate the damaged soil on my property (over a period of years) using natural casting mixture!

    (2) Update on the dreaded pussy.
    Reply from the Australian Herb society:
    Dear Tricia, the cat problem could be helped by a cat trap and catching them – this certainly scares the life out of them. Rue is a herb they hate and a spray with a chilli mixture on the ground will send them running.
     
  2. d_donahoo

    d_donahoo Junior Member

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    tricia -

    the earthworm stuff - from my understanding is pretty much correct - but once again - you need to think of where you are starting from and what you hope to achieve.

    worm castings are often used as an excellent seed raising mix. at a previous house, we lay worm castings out on our garden bed to sow seeds directly into.

    and, depending on the current condition of your soil it will help. if it is all clay soil, worm castings will add a nice richness. the fact is you need to breakdown your organic matter some how and worm farming is an excellent way to do it. plus you'd imagine - the high nutrient content of the stuff you throw into your farm - some of that will remain.

    it looks like they are purely looking at earthworms in a very isolated way.

    i question the aeration comment and suggest that, like all things, you read widely and just cause a book comes highly recommended - you can pick and choose what you think is worthwhile information.

    so stick with the worm farm, but also set a couple of composts going and set up a trench composting system for winter.

    go and find as much chook poo and cow poo as you can and dig it into the soil and let it start to rot.

    you'll get there in no time.

    cheers
     
  3. Geoff Lawton

    Geoff Lawton Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Tricia
    worm farms are stocked with compost worms not earth worms which live in the soil and will eat the manure of the compost worm. The compost worms can eat their own weight every day in organic matter and double their population in 40 days. Their manure (castings) is a extremely good soil conditioner with very high beneficial bacterial counts.
    Cheers Geoff :)
     
  4. Mont

    Mont Junior Member

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    Tricia, you've identified the biggest frustration of the learning permaculturist - contradictory information! I'd love a quid for every time a respected author says the opposite to another respected one, or adds further information which changes the conclusions you reached from the first source. If you like to fix info in your memory and move on it's annoying to have to get the rubber out and start again. The upside is that through investigating further you end up with a better understanding - if you have the time! I wish you the minimum amount of gnashing of teeth over it.

    Mont
     
  5. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reassurence and extra info!
    I'm trying hard to replenish the patch of damaged environment I live on. I think my worms are the red wriggler type as they are reddish long, skinny, and very active.

    This forum and books are my only source of learning as there are no permaculture workshops in this `neck' of the woods.

    Trouble is B. Mollison's recommended reading lists are very out of date. Is there a more modern work that covers the info in:
    Creatively Confronting the Energy Crisis by Deborah White?
    Or `The Permaculture Barden' by G. Bell
    Or `Urban Permaculture' by D Watkins.

    By the way - I have stopped the rain-initiated soil erosion at the front of my property by making mini swales and packing mulch and grass runners into the concaves. It's really great!
    I never would have imagined such a thing if I hadn't read the article in this forum.

    Best wishes
    TriciaM
     
  6. Mont

    Mont Junior Member

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    Tricia, there's another useful forum run by the Uni of NSW's ecoliving centre (at Randwick). The site on the web for previous postings is:
    lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/private/ecoliving-permaculture/

    A couple of books you might find useful:
    The Permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow (1996) [Penguin Books] - she's based on the NSW/Qld border.
    and
    Organic Gardening (6th edition) by Peter Bennett (2001), New Holland Publishers. He's based in Adelaide.

    Mont
     
  7. Chook Nut

    Chook Nut Junior Member

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    yeah don't give up on those worms :D

    David Holmgren has just released a new book called "Principles & Pathways Beyond Sustainability" ....although this book may be a bit political more than practical... there are exerts on his website

    his website is https://www.holmgren.com.au ..... i will be ordering my copy soon.....

    i am getting the Seed Savers book first as a i do a lot of growing from seed....

    good luck

    :)
     
  8. d_donahoo

    d_donahoo Junior Member

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    and while we are on recommendations.

    i find anything by Jackie French still inspiring - not scientific, but full of knowledge that many may have thought to be lost.

    also - i'm addicted to Ted Trainer's website at the moment:

    he writes awesome stuff about livign self sustainably and how to move towards a low energy future.

    https://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/tsw/

    (ps - also depends on what you are after. holmgren's book is brilliant - but not for gardeners...it looks more specifically at how permaculture will assist in the transition to a more sustainable world)
     
  9. Chook Nut

    Chook Nut Junior Member

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    i didn't think it had much to do with gardening.... it's fairly new is all..... i haven't seen it in any major bookstores yet so i thought i would throw it out there....

    i take it you read it and enjoyed it then... :) .... makes the wait in getting it myself all the more worthwhile....

    i found a couple of other books that are interesting to read are "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond .... it's basically a short history of evolving civilisations of the last 13,000 years. It goes into why some countries ended up where they are today and why the 3rd workd and indigineous people lucked out.

    and the "Critical Path" R. Buckminster Fuller..... a genious of the 20th Century..... his ideas on a global community that shares it's resources were radical at the time.

    oh well... thats enough rambling from me :p

    Dave
     
  10. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    WOW! Your terrific suggestions will keep me occupied for ages.
    I'll train it down to Sydney next Friday in the hope that a couple of the books might be obtained from Parramatta Library. If not I'll continue on to the Mitchell Library in Sydney and order them through the interlibrary loan method.

    Thanksalot
    TriciaM
     
  11. Peter Warne

    Peter Warne Junior Member

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    Tricia,
    Could you tell us about your mini-swales? How mini they are, how you made them, how well they work etc.
    Peter
     
  12. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    Hi Peter

    Hi Ken,


    My primary source for creating mini-swales came from this forum under the heading `Swales in the Fruit Orchard' posted by Sarita (highlight topics in last 90 days.
    My second source was a videorecording narrated by Bill Mollison and produced by Julian Russell for the ABC TV series: Gardening the world back to life.
    I obtained this video from Parramatta Library in NSW.
    Call Number V 631.58 RUS 1
    If your local library does not have it you can request it through an Interlibrary Loan.
    Mollison inspects a large scale (now disused) swale project cut into the Arizona desert decades ago by some Government instrumentality.

    I observed the front of my property for some weeks before digging out a shallow swale (approx 10cm deep) at the point where the rain-water erosion was most severe. In the cement-hard clay concave immediately behind it I spread lime, a layer of wet newspaper, then grass runners, then layers of mulch.
    After two months the runners are shooting nicely and little weed-like plants are growing in the swale.

    Although the frosts of winter will do their damage over the next few months, I sense that my runners are strong enough to survive.

    Three weeks ago I repeated the above process in a second eroded concave and so far so good.

    Why not start a new topic on swales so people 1000 times more knowledgeable than I can add their thoughts?
    Best wishes
    TriciaM
     
  13. Mont

    Mont Junior Member

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    A Green History of the World by Clive Ponting is also a real eye opener. I found it in the local library at Hurstville so you might be lucky. ???
     
  14. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    Thanks Mont.
    I'll have no trouble obtaining it on Interlibrary Loan.

    Small aside Re surname Ponting: Doubt Ricky will be the hero to me that Steve Waugh is - but must not sell him short. He's still very young.

    Glad the forum is back on line.
    Regards
    TriciaM
     
  15. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    Dear Chooknut
    Seedsavers Book is too general to search by title at library.
    Could you perhaps give details of author and year the book was published?

    Regards
    TriciaM
     
  16. Chook Nut

    Chook Nut Junior Member

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    Hi Trish,

    The book is called...'the Seed Savers Handbook', authors are Michel and Jude Fanton and published by Seed Savers in the years 93, 94, 99 and 2001. Not sure if it would be stocked in libraries but worth a go.

    their website is: https://www.seedsavers.net

    If anyone can help me find a place where i can purchase a book called.... 'A Pattern Language' by C. Alexander published in 1977 i would be very greatful. So far i have only seed it for sale in the US.

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  17. TriciaM

    TriciaM Junior Member

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    Hi Dave
    You can purchase A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander (Pub New York Oxford University Press 1977)
    through Amazon.com
    scroll down to books used
    Buy new $45.50
    Used $36.40

    Alternatively: you can acquire it through interlibrary loan
    for $4.50
    The reference is N309.262/63
    Just go to your local municipal library and request it.

    It is currently held at NSW State Reference Library so if you are prepared to wait 2-3 weeks thats the way to go.

    Also a good course of action when you are `chasing' books

    is https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/webcat/srchhelp-a.cfm

    That's how I found the C Alexander book Dewey ref.no.
    I just got into the above site and typed in the title.
    Same format applies when searching the catelogues of all State Reference libraries.

    Regards
    TriciaM
     
  18. Chook Nut

    Chook Nut Junior Member

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    Thanks Tricia,

    I take it the $ amounts are in US currency?

    I will have to check with my library also.

    Ta

    Dave
     
  19. lillypilly

    lillypilly Junior Member

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    run away worms..........

    hi every one i have a question for all you worm farmers out there. my worms keep trying to get out of the worm farm. I m feeding them every day?? any ideas :roll:
     
  20. paige

    paige Junior Member

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    Tricia,
    If your goal is to rejuvenate damaged soil, what would you think about adding some rock dust? I'm in the beginning stages of learning about this amazing stuff that is a waste product of the quarrying industries and have begun to source it out at various quarries here in Massachusetts, USA.

    Check out this website if you haven't already: https://www.remineralize.org.

    The glaciers of the last ice age 10,000 years ago left something like three meters of rock dust behind as they moved along, grinding everything beneath them. Over time, much of the rich minerals in the rock dust have been used up by trees and other plants, and also, of course, has been trashed by human mismanagement.

    People all across the world are finding that application of this very fine rock dust makes things grow like never seen before.

    You, alas, being in Australia, have soil that never had the benefit of the recent Ice Age. Do you know the organization Men Of the Trees? They're in Australia and have been using rock dust in their plantings of trees for quite a few years. They have been witnessing pretty astounding results--sometimes growth five times more than without the rock dust!

    I've begun to make teas of the rock dust and am beginning to feed it to my fruit trees. It can also be applied as a foliar spray, layered into compost or applied topically. Most recently I've worked it into a newly created garden bed where my asphalt driveway was until I took a sledgehammer and prybar to it last September.

    So far I have only basalt rock dust which is rich in iron, calcium and magnesium. Soon I want to get a schist dust from a different quarry that offers other minerals.

    I plan to bike around with this rock dust and do guerrilla dustings wherever I go!

    Paige
     

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