Goat questions

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by pfraser, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. pfraser

    pfraser Junior Member

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    We'd really love some advice from you experienced ppl!! :)

    We live on 2.5 acres that's a 'work in progress' but for the moment we have a large backyard that will be our permie focus (the rest will be 'stage 2'). The yard is probably about 1/4-1/2 acre of grass and weeds and not much else... The fencing's sound, but a lot of it is only wire mesh to 90cm and then a wire on top to 1.2m.

    Part of the yard is infested with very thin bamboo, thistles, wisteria, blackberry nightshade and a whole heap of other weeds... We really need some *MAJOR* help for a cleanup of the yard before we can get anywhere much with planting... and I'm very pregnant + have toddler, hubby works FT and I've been thinking we'll never get there... We need to clear a working space to get some plantings in so good stuff can start taking over iykwim... but clearing the space is a *problem*.

    I was watching landline tonight about how goats are being used to clear out all sorts of woody weeds, etc and how they do a *fantastic* job. We'd *SO* love to get a goat at some stage as part of our permie system, but aren't up for a milker right at the moment so had put it off but the landline show got me thinking...

    I was thinking maybe it'd be worth us getting a loaner of a goat or maybe an old/retired goat or something to help us clear out our weeds to get our yard sorted.

    So the questions I have are - would our fencing be adequate do you think? Mostly wire mesh fencing to 0.9m with a wire on top to total 1.2m, some post and rail with part wire mesh, and some wooden paling fence. All of it sound. Or would we need a higher fence for a goat? Are they as bad for escaping as people say??

    Secondly, would 1/4 to 1/2 an acre be enough area for a goat for the time being? We'd be okay with supplementing feed of course - it'd be worth it; and would give us experience in goat care...

    Would a goat be okay without a goat companion do you think?

    Anything else we should consider before doing this??

    Thanks *so* much for your help!
     
  2. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Have 5 of the buggers and yes they can be difficult to contain. Saying that though, with enough feed and water they will probably not try too hard. Something to consider would be the need for some sort of shelter. They do not have the same sort of protection as sheep and being wet and cold can kill. Remember also that they are social animals, so more than one would be good.
    In my experience they will eat small trees and woody weeds first generally leaving the grass till last. Have also found that the only hay they will eat is lucerne, which is running at $22 a bale up my way. Although, with the feed you've got some barnyard blend or molases oats will be a great supplement to keep them in top nick, but may not be required.
    Make sure anything you don't want them to eat is well protected. Have not found clothe eating to be the problem we have all been led to believe, although they will nibble on them while you're wearing them.
    They are great animals and I would not be without them.

    Nathan
     
  3. pfraser

    pfraser Junior Member

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    Thanks so much for your response!!

    So do you think the fencing would do? What about miniatures or something? Would that be a better idea given our fencing's not as high as it might be?
    We can't really afford to do anything much to the fencing at the moment iykwim...

    Oh, I forgot to say about shelter - yep there's an old kind of day stable thing down there. It's big, heaps of room for a goat or two; it's just mesh on one side, but the other 3 sides are corrugated iron and the roof too... I was hoping that'd be okay? There's also a paddock that only needs some mesh on the post and rail fence, so that could always be a backup if they need rotation too (it has big, good quality stables).

    Basically, I guess I'm trying to figure out if the goats would do the job - would they be of use in solving our weed dilemma, do you think?? And are they a major hassle to keep?? Would I be way in over my head?
    I love animals, but have never kept anything big and with a 3yr old and (soon to be) bub, I wouldn't want to take on anything that's serious trouble, only to get rid of it iykwim.

    But then I'd love to get some goats one day anyway and I guess if they're not all that much trouble, there's no time like the present!

    Someone suggested to me that maybe getting two bottle babies would be a good idea - so they can get really attached to me and then down the track, when I'm ready they could be milkers...

    Does anyone know if bottle babies are a good idea or a bad idea? How much work is involved?

    Thanks again so much (and sorry for all the qu's!!!)
     
  4. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Hi P I also saw your post on the self sufficiency list and will copy this there as well

    we have British Alpine goats (BA) and have never had any trouble keeping them in.

    I have heard that cross bred goats specially boer cross are a totally different matter :(

    1.2 m high fencing is certainly high enough ..... ours are mostly arround that with ringlock but we do have an electric hot wire on top ! it would be better to buy an electric fence unit if you can possibly afford it to save any problems !

    a companion would be better ! I would suggest 2 young does either BA or maybe sanaan then you can milk them later ....... this time of the year you should be able to buy kids arround 4 or 5 months old ....... if you are lucky you may find some that have been bottle raised whih will be tamer but others may be equally tame ........dont get goats that havent been handled !

    personaly I would not consider minature goats although I have have never had them I wonder if they would be like minature horses which are often litle horrors ! the story from the lady on the list who couldnt milk one seems to back this up !

    when you come to milk later BA s will "milk through" for at least 2 years without needing to kid again wheras other breeds will need to kid each year . My first doe is still milking in her 3rd year since kidding and this is her first lactation !

    a 1/4 acre ( 1000 sq m ) paddock is big enough for 2 goats if you can rotate them ......... we have 8 acres and keep our goats mainly in 4 1000 sq m paddocks although being in WA we cant maintain grass in them all through summer...... but we do keep 1 paddock green through summer and just let the milkers pick on it for a while each day ........ we have 8 goats

    the goats should do a great job cleaning up most of the weeds( thistles and bamboo are very prized :D ) but wont eat nightshade and it is toxic if eaten ....... we have some at times and they never touch it but do make sure you give them some supplementary feed as they might if they are starving

    in the long term once they have cleared the weeds you should plant some pasture seed

    we started out in 2005 with one doe just kidded with twins ....... we knew nothing about goats buy had had horse for many years ........ we haqve had no mjor problems and are now absolutely hooked on goat keeping ! goats are not only great pets and great characters they are extremely productive for their size 8)

    frosty
     
  5. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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    Mine are pure boar and as long as the fence won't stretch too much when they put their front feet on them your fence will do the job. The other thing they may need from time to time is a hoof trim, not hard to do. Not sure, but would tend to agree Frosty about the minatures. Minature anything always seems to be a pain in the bum.
    Your shelter sounds great, they will definately do the job you are asking and they are a good introduction to keeping larger animals.

    Nathan
     
  6. pfraser

    pfraser Junior Member

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    Thank you *SO* much everyone!
    This is exciting!

    The ILs have been so negative about us getting animals that we thought we'd be killing ourselves if we did... but they're a bit negative in general and it sounds much more practical than trying to battle the weeds and bamboo on our own and getting nowhere!
    Glad goats eat bamboo! One horse we had here was munching on it because it's nice lush/softish bamboo, so hopefully the goats would love it... that'd be a stress reducer! :)
    I think it sounds like the fence should be okay - it's pretty new and sturdy... Just have to make sure any gaps are taken care of, but hubby should be able to do that...

    Hmmm...maybe there's hope for this place yet!!! :)

    With buying goats, are there things to watch out for/avoid?
    Any hints on reputable breeders?
    And are BA's always considered to have a good temperament?
    Are they the best tempered goats?

    Thank you again! SO much!!
     
  7. nsainsbury

    nsainsbury Junior Member

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  8. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

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    Hi Frosty.....nice to hear from you
    After these posts I feel like going down the goat track myself. but still have to get my dexters first.
    Cheers
    Cathy
     
  9. pfraser

    pfraser Junior Member

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    I'm *SOO* excited about this...

    I just keep getting such conflicting reports about the fencing.
    Some other people I've spoken to have said they'll definitely be escaping here there and everywhere... If that's the case, I can just see my pregnant self chasing goats across the neighbouring properties!

    Do people think the escaping is really as big a problem as that? I'm scared to be honest!!

    Also, would it be better for me to wait until next season's bottle babies are ready or get slightly older goats now that have been raised by someone else? (Assuming if I find someone passionate and loving, they should be okay)...

    Might be easier to get goats that have already gone past weaning - less work for me... but then I want them to be good natured and well loved/adjusted...

    I've also heard such conflicting reports on the breeds!
    Some ppl say BAs are placid and lovely other say they're all trouble... Saanens I don't think I've heard anything negative about... but not sure??
    Given I haven't even touched a goat before I wouldn't have a clue!
    I guess it's probably true that it's how they're raised - but I'd prefer goats that aren't as active/flighty, etc by nature - more laid back (if that's possible) - but maybe that's just luck rather than breed??

    Also, how do I start looking for breeders?? I wouldn't have a clue. I've done some google searches and come up with a couple, but not many - is there an association or something?

    Thank you again - this really is looking like a good option for us and I'm really excited!! :)
     
  10. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    I agree with what nsainsbury says above excellent advice :D it is better to buy from a reputable experienced source and maybe that is why my goats have proven to be so trouble free ........ like n I contacted the bred society and finished up buying my goats from the DGSA secretary in WA

    BA are considered to have a good temperament but so are most pure bred dairy goats. Sanaans are very popular and said to be placid but Pat Coleby says they are more inclined to squeeze out or dig under fences than British Alpines.

    I guess you need to factor in the Pat Coleby like me had mainly BA :lol: and of course any BA enthusiast will tell you BAs are the smartest of the dairy breeds !

    Toggenburgs seems to have a bad rep Pat Coleby mentions it and I was told early on by a goat breeder here to avoid "Toggenbuggers" !

    in the goat world like any animal opinions are like "bottoms" everybody as one :lol:

    I do think milking through is a big factor and BAs are the breed that most consistently has this trait. I also felt that dark colouring was desirable and it is hot where I and and for me susceptability to skin cancer is a big factor


    N I know little about pure bred boers and dont intend to "put them down " but I have read that dairy boer crosses are much harder to keep in than pure bred dairy goats. I would think feral crosses would also be the same.

    but then goats are also very much individuals and all have their own personality !

    goats also like routine and familiarity ...... when I first got my goats I was told dont worry if they get out they will not leave home ( although they may wreak havoc on the garden for awhile but they will always come back to their shed to cudd ! this has proven true to the extent that until recently mine could not be locked in a padock away from their "house" without crying to come back after a while ! consequently we have alleys way leading to various paddocks and the goats get lots of exercise walking back and forward to graze then "home" to cudd ! After nearly 3 years they now feel at home enough on all of the block to stay and cudd in another paddock !

    also be aware that goats hate moving homes and it will take a fair while for them to feel safe. It helps if they can move with another goat they already know.

    P as far as reputable breeders I am a bit too far away to help with NSW but I can suggest you visit te forum at https://www.sarariver.com as mauzi who owns it is in the Hunter region and breeds BA s. She may even have some kids she needs to rehome and although the forum is quiet there is quite a lot of goat info on the forum and webite

    regards
    frosty
     
  11. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    pfraser,

    Definitely get a goat, just one. Preferably a young nanny in case it doesnt work out for you. They are easily sold. Also if you like goats you can breed her.

    I have a few more suggestions.

    1. Get a dog collar for the goat so you can restrain/handle it. Put it on so that it can slide up and down the neck.
    2. Tie it up in the shed for a week or two when it first arrives. This will acclimatise it to the property and you. Putting a new goat in a new paddock is asking a lot of any fence. When you do release her she will then explore the surroundings and not make a run for the fence.
    3. Goats have as many personalities as people do.
    4. Teaching a goat to tether is very handy for cleaning up specific areas. Dont tie a goat to a fence... :D :D
    5. I would get a bag of workhorse mix to supplement feed her for no other reason than to get her tame fast and keep her condition up.
    6. Make sure she is wormed before you get her home.
    7. Get the breeder to show you where her pin bones are so you can learn to assess her condition with some accuracy.

    I too would buy from a breeder. I had someone give me a wether goat who was bottle raised and just a bloody nuisance to have round. It bleated near non-stop. Didnt like being in a paddock or tied up, it wanted to live in the house and dine on milk and instant noodles [which had been its previous diet]. I gave Tommy to a goat farmer and last I heard he was on a boat to Indonesia.

    Owning a goat should be fun.

    cheers,
     
  12. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Hi Cathy

    I am usually here reading it just takes a goat topic to get me typing :lol:

    I say go for goats not dexters :wink: goats are more fun - eat less - and give A2 milk

    I did actually research dexters myself before getting goats and am now so glad we "found" goats 8)

    regards
    frosty
     
  13. Loris

    Loris Junior Member

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    Don't worry about the fencing - get a couple of small goats. We just used ferals caught out of the bush - they are tough and no special issues. Get them young, put a collar on them and teach them to tether. That way you can move the tether from spot to spot where you want them to clear out. I used mine to clear out garden beds at the end of the season, ready to plant up next season. They will also dig with their hooves so its sort of like a chook tractor.

    Each day, tether them where you want them to work. They will walk past green grass to eat woody weeds every time. When mine were hungry in the drought, they appreciated a cardboard box with some mollasses on top (not waxed cardboard though).

    So my pick would be grubby little babies. Two girls - so they would be little and easy for you to train without risking bunting or stubborness. Just be careful though, they seem to hate being wet. So you need to move them if it rains or have a little movable shelter that can be close to them. Ours did quite well with a 44gallon drum with the end cut off or if you have an old ute or something, park it near them so they can get underneath to shelter.

    They can have a tendency to jump on cars - be careful about that. But an old car can make a great goat shelter. Or an old trailer or something like that. And because they were feral, they were sturdy smaller breed - not tall at all so easier to manage and easier to shelter. Anyone who lives near a bush area probably has access to feral goats. You can get the kids quite young, nearly new born if you want to bottle feed because they are so sturdy and easy to rear. They come when called. We have found them to be smarter than dogs but much more inclined to go their own way. I miss my old goats very much.
     
  14. TT

    TT Junior Member

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    Just another goat question or 2:

    1. How often are they in season?
    2. How loud to they call/cry when in season? I own 2 acres and I do not want the neighbours complaining about the noise. My closest neighbours are about 100m away.
    3. Would 2 goats (a doe and wether) turn 1/4 to 1/2 acre into a dust bowl?
    4. Has anyone ever owned a miniatur goat?

    Thanks,
    Paul.
     
  15. SilkieMavis

    SilkieMavis Junior Member

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    Re: Goat questions

    I haven't read all the replies, but I would not recommend getting a single goat! Get two or more, females or wethers or one of each. I was talked into buying a lone goat and within four days I was begging the seller to let me buy another one - the first one was miserable on her own. All she wanted to do was come in the house, she stared at it the whole time and broke out of her yard to get to us. She wouldn't eat and kept making the most pitiful calls. So after four days I bought her a friend and the two have been together ever since. I sold them, and the offspring of the second goat, together and I would not have let them go separately.
    They are lovely, and very clever. In your situation I would go for some smaller goats and definitely get two.
     
  16. gypsyoak

    gypsyoak Junior Member

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    Re: Goat questions

    Hi there!
    I have 2 boer x anglo nubians and we had to put deer fencing up. We handraised them from 5 weeks old and they were initially contained in a fence about 1.2 m. Our problem with this was one little darling got her head caught in it...everyday. We then built a fence to our neighbours specifications. He has 12 boer goats. This fence was approx 1.5 m with an electric wire running across the top, middle and bottom. It took us 3 weeks to build and approx $500. The yard was 200squarem and full of delicious weeds. Full of anticipation, we let them into the yard................they jumped over the fence within 3 minutes of being in there. :axe: My point is......a fence that keep some goats in....may not keep others. We then went and had some professionals install deer fencing (thaqt way they could do it in a day) - so we now keep ours in with a fence 8 ft high.....

    I have found......regardless of how big your fence is - that the goats love it as a scratching post. They will lean on it and run their body along it as far as they can go. This is where an electric wire comes in handy... I have also found that with our tall fence, they stand up on it. They have actually snapped one of the starpickets that holds up the fence, due to their weight. If you have a lovely fence - they can bend the wire within seconds.....

    That being the case....I wouldn't be without my goaties. :D
     

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