USA bee die-off... should we be worried?

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by devinp, Mar 3, 2007.

  1. *redreamer*

    *redreamer* Junior Member

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    i believe that i AM making a point about THE VERY THING you accuse me of....

    read the post.........

    and i suggest that people are not going to give up their cell phones if that DOES turn out to be the issue,.....
     
  2. gg

    gg Junior Member

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    LOL Let me get this straight....IF what Einstein predicted is true, that the human race would only have about 4 years left to survive as a species IF bees disappear from Earth

    and

    IF the disappearance of bees can be proven to be caused from cell phone radio waves

    then

    you don't believe humans would give up their cell phones???


    hmmm now let me think....4 yrs of insecure people talking loudly in public places, broadcasting the mundanity of their lives, causing accidents, and being general nuisances and wasters of time because THEY think they are soooo important others cannot live without their advice etc. for a day and then of course, everybody and his brother would have plenty to bitch and moan about, I'm sure, in this scenario (those damn bees, how dare they!)

    or

    life goes on for animals and plants, and humans become even better custodians of the creatures they are in charge of, (barring any major nuclear mishap of course :wink: ).


    The choice seems easy enough. cell phones by all means. LOLOLOL :p

    :idea: Perhaps we can put together some nanotech robotic bees in time.


    ps I am with digger on this ...hug a bee. :D
     
  3. *redreamer*

    *redreamer* Junior Member

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    *rolls eyes* OH BROTHER............
    i actually posted the snopes link because HE DID NOT SAY THAT

    GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT and THAT was posted in reference to Peter Carylons post

    See???

    it is after all being touted as one of the possible causes of bees dissapearing from the hive and not returning...... because i think YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID in reference to SOME people around here..........(EDIT: before i rile people up i mean the rednicked farmers here in the Fingerlakes......... :wink: )

    I am wondering why you did not READ the link i posted from Cornell?That pretty much sums up where i am coming from.....

    that is what is happening in my area ...... i have many bumblebees in my garden it is after all spring.......

    but NO honey bees.... i see it first hand. I do take it seriously.

    I will bow out now..... the reason that people post here is for knowledge is it not? perhaps you two gg and floot need to go back to see what i was REALLY saying.........instead of getting immired in being distracted by the very thing i was also suggesting was a distraction..........

    its kind of ironic even.
    Spring in Sempronious....



    [​IMG]
     
  4. gg

    gg Junior Member

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    ummm, redreamer, I was just joshing wit ya a bit there sista. Does LOL and :D mean nothing to you? have you broken your funny bone?

    The info from Cornell is fine, but nothing new. Mites, fungal diseases, etc. have been a detriment to bees and beekeepers since forever. What has never happened before that's curious and quite terrifying in a long range view, is why the bees all leave the hive enmasse, never to return? and why the remaining bees have multiple diseases raging in their systems. Bees have always dealt with 1 or 2 diseases, but never have bee people seen them with 6 or 7 different diseases. It is as if the bees have no immunity at all anymore. And most scary of all is the absolute suddeness of it all. Whole colonies collapsing within hours.

    I am partial to the genetically modified crops issue myself. I have noticed when crossreferencing data on where known crops are grown either regularly or in experimental farms, that is where the bees are also having probs.

    Have a nice day redreamer. Go out in that field of yours and enjoy painting for a bit. Nice vid too btw.
     
  5. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    another possible cause of the bee problems is the use of depleted uranium weapons .........

    it is a fact that DU from the middle east wars has been spread arround the globe plus their are numerous contaminated sites in the USA from training

    we have discussed this on the DU watch list and a member from Afganistan reports that after the US invasion bees disapeared from the country

    sorry no links the media wont touch this type of controversy :evil:

    frosty
     
  6. *redreamer*

    *redreamer* Junior Member

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    I spent ALL DAY outside here ..... beautiful spring weather.......

    the ancient apples down the bottom of the block are all in blossom and look fantastic.

    but they are silent

    completely

    UTTERLY

    i have a feeling that this is going to be the beginning of something VERY BAD........

    I could see no bees........i found it eerie and SUBSTANTIAL......

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][/img]
     
  7. richard in manoa

    richard in manoa Junior Member

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    Redreamer, please accept our apologies on behalf of our swearing, SHOUTING friend, Floot. Not sure what got his goat, but there you go.
    I hope you feel welcome here and continue to contribute such thoughtful posts as the ones you've made here...
    Regarding the bees, I'm sure we all hope that they recover from whatever it is that has got them down this year... I think you don't have to be Albert Einstein to know that they are very important to life on earth as we know it. :wink:
     
  8. gippslander

    gippslander Junior Member

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    as the sea level deepened
    now solutions we pose
    such pollution we seepened
    will need to be closed!
    though for long in the tooth it had crept up our nose

    yes the septum had keptum
    on asthmatic row
    while fishstocks and woodstocks
    and flockstocks laid low

    a grey sort of smog now inhibits our veins
    that allows that political righteousness reigns
    laymen no stamen must buzz with no gains
    now that blind freddy einstein composes our brains

    *
    "Only through a fertile soil can the plants, the animals, ourselves and our children, and the whole environment, recover from the effects of the bastardisation of our agriculture."Sir Albert Howard
     
  9. *redreamer*

    *redreamer* Junior Member

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    :)

    thanks for the welcome Richard in Manoa!

    [​IMG]

    interesting words there gippslander ........ i am wondering when the penny will drop with the general population about the seriousness of this issue

    every third mouthful....... brought to you by a "bee"
     
  10. gippslander

    gippslander Junior Member

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    went to your planet via youtube

    beautiful
     
  11. *redreamer*

    *redreamer* Junior Member

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    well thank you....... i appreciate the feedback on my images......

    :)
     
  12. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    Background Briefing, on ABC Radio National, covered the subject this morning (Sunday 28 July):

    This programme will be repeated on Tuesday evening (31 July) at 7pm, or you can listen on the net at https://abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/. They don't mention GMOs, but you'll notice that a major suspect is broad-scale industrial monoculture.
     
  13. gg

    gg Junior Member

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    Thanks Alex for posting that report.
     
  14. JoanVL

    JoanVL Junior Member

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    I thought I might mention my own experience with bees. We have a small suburban organic garden, with a little grove of trees entered through a jasmine covered metal archway (one of those cheapies bought for about $15)
    Anyway, I never noticed for ages, but finally I saw a huge oval natural bee hive hanging from the arch. Knowing nothing about beekeeping, I decided to ring the local beekeeping assoc., because one family member who visits a lot is allergic to bee stings. The bloke from the association was all too happy to have a hive donated, and he transfered the natural
    hive to one of his own hives. While the bees were flying into the new hive, where he'd transfered the queen, cane toads came from nowhere to feast on the returning bees. He killed them in a fury, saying they are the beekeepers worst enemy.
    The point I'm making, is that bees are doing fine round here. The beekeeper was over the moon that he not only got a new hive, but it was from an organic garden. As we on this forum are presumably organic gardeners, we are clearly doing our bit for the future of beekind,
     
  15. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    So, did anyone catch Background Briefing? I thought they made some very important points about our situation here in Australia............ anyone? :? :(

    You can still listen via the net, even download the audio or transcript. https://abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/default.htm
     
  16. gg

    gg Junior Member

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    Yes I listened to it. Basically there are too many stressors. the bees here in the states are being asked, like most other workers, to do too much, with not enough to go too far with too much load to be able to accomplish all that we are asking of them.
    There just aren't enough bees to cover all the acres needing pollination and so becuase the bees are moved from place to place, fed on sugar water (not the best diet), pesticide use which sickens/kills them, they are stressed. Then add the mite problems, well they are weakened.

    Baby the bees. More stationary hives/bee businesses are needed in order not to wear out the bees traveling long distances. Bring back the wildflowers for nutrition rather than monocultures. Variety is the spice and mainstay of all life. The bees will strengthen up and be able to throw off the mites if the other aspects of their health and care is taken care of more naturally. Manual controls may help to balance the situation. I also read the thymol and wintergreen may help.


    One manual, organic approach I found involves sugar:

    https://www.damoc.com/beekeeper/sugar%20 ... sting.html

    another older method involves mineral oil.

    https://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/mineral_oil.htm
     
  17. plantgirl

    plantgirl Junior Member

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    Bee Compassionate to the Hymenoptera

    Hi this is plantgirl from San Diego, CA. I am very concerned about the bees. "Bees are a plantgirl's best friend." Bees are important for plants in so many different ways. Without the bees many plant species cannot survive, and more importantly, a huge percentage of the plants they eat in the U.S. and other non-permaculture agriculture couldn't be pollinated. But more importantly, I think that people have noticed a decline in honey bees because we work with them, and notice them as they go hand in hand in agriculture, and are fairly large, and sting people. However, what about all the no-common-name species that are extremely beneficial also that may be disappearing also with no one to count? I think we should look at the bees disappearing as representative overall comment on highly adapted and intelligent social insect species, I would take it as a warning to look out.

    I have been doing a lot of reading on the topic trying to put together a short video to present to people. This is my story about my observations of the honey bee...

    I am currently living in the house I was born in over 30 years ago. We used to have a stream not far from our house, but it was covered over for a freeway that went in 6 years ago destroying the habitat in the process.

    Last month I was watching my roommates' kids outside playing in the sprinklers to cool off on this hot day (about 33-34 degrees Celsius). The water begin to pool up on our dried up clay soils. As I was cleaning up when the kids had gone in, I noticed several bees coming over to hover and land near the water. I watched as they dipped their proboscis into the water. I didn't know if bees normally drank water, but I thought they usually drank nectar or maybe honey.

    I decided to keep a little pool of water to see if they would come back the next day. Well they came back again and even more. Soon I noticed they were drinking around a hole in a wood board and I understood they needed a spongy material to drink from. So the next day I put a wet thick bright yellow fabric, with one end into the water as a wick, on top of the board. Within 1 day all the bees had concentrated their feeding on the sponge. Also I counted the number of bees on the sponge which is about 15cm X 5cm and at first I would see 12 on the sponge in 1 min, whereas now it it 30 bees/minute (granted I did not mark them but tried not to count repeat landers).

    I began to wonder if they preferred water or dilute honey, but when I tried to place another sponge that was a different color with diluted honey, they got confused and didn't land on either sponge so I took it away. I have been keeping the water down to a trickle right onto the wick at the peak of day, (which I shaded) to save water. I have been trying to shade their feeding area and am looking for some good plant species that are tall and have nectar and pollen for the bees to plant next to the site to shade it. I have been working around them and taking pictures, but haven't been stung once. A few muddabber wasps have also been coming to collect the wet clay mud soils they need to make their nests.

    Q: Should I replace the water with diluted 15% honey? I'm not sure if they are dehydrated and need water or if they need both energy and water? I don't want to give them too much sweet if they are only badly "constipated".

    Interestingly, I found 2 dead bees on the sidewalk by my house before I started the drinking hole within 2 weeks. Yesterday, I accidentally forgot to turn the water on to wet the sponge and it dried out. When I got to it late day, the bees were going to wet areas around the hole but were not on the yellow sponge. When I looked closer, to my dismay, I found a dead bee right next to the sponge. It was curled over with its proboscis sticking out. I felt so bad. I saved it to take a picture and will return it's body to the earth. I felt awful....
    ...:crybaby:

    I have devised a water bottle with a sponge coming out of the top to save water and not have to keep turning the hose on and off, but I haven't tried it at this location yet.

    California is facing a serious drought that has persisted for many years (were going to be like Australia here in Southern California soon). Governor Schwarzenegger is even talking about our water policy issues on the news. I have noticed that many of the plants that used to put out flowers with lots of nectar, suck as the honey suckle bush in the front yard , produced far fewer flowers than normal. Not only that but each flower had much less nectar inside compared to when I was little, if I sucked on the end. I started watering the bush more flowers started to pop up.

    I started reading a lot more about Colony Collapse Disorder, which they still have not found the cause for. Researchers at Pennsylvania State in the Colony Collapse Disorder Working Group have been researching this disorder for over ten years. They noted that in all cases in the US and for some in Europe they found that the bees were suffering from dehydration, lower "immune" defenses, and were not found dead in any pattern or close to the hive. They said it seemed as if the bees were just either lost or continually searching and could not make it home.

    What I also learned is that bees cool off by evaporative cooling. According to an Wikipedia article, they regurgitate a droplet of honey and place it on their heads. This automatically cools their body temperature by -10C. They use this to cool their body during flight, which generates a lot of heat. Finally, the optimal temperature range for collecting honey is 22-25C. Compare that to our temperatures every day for the last week and it is too much for the poor little bees. IF THIS ISN'T GLOBAL WARMING KILLING OUR BEES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!! :angryfire: It's hotter and less habitat.
    For more info on bee cooling please see "Thermal Regulation of the Honey Bee" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_honey_bee

    These are some of the good sites on the disorder. First is general, the second is more advanced:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder
    https://www.ento.psu.edu/MAAREC/ColonyCollapseDisorder.html

    "Its sad when the bees work harder than half your country (U.S.A.)."
    with a heartfelt cheers for the bees,
    plantgirl
    :toothy4:
     
  18. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    Hi Plantgirl

    I can assure you it is quite natural for bees to drink water ......... here in western austalia in summer every bit of water arround our property gets a huge number of bees arround it all day ............ it becomes quite a problem with animals drinking troughs .......... and even the wild birds give up on the bird bath ......... a friend of mine had to get rid of a small pond she put in near her door because it attracted so many bees and and one of her children is allergic to bee stings

    I am firmly convinced colony collapse is caused by pesticides and herbicides with maybe GE crops being the final nail in the coffin .......... here the ebes still seem healthy in bush areas :D

    frosty
     
  19. plantgirl

    plantgirl Junior Member

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    cont. from my last post

    Continued from my previous post.

    I just wanted to add that another possible contributing factor to the decline in bees is that the pollen they feed on may be contaminated with pesticides (as frosty mentioned) or have lower quality/diversity of proteins because they are sterile due to drought or stressed plants that produce aborted sterile pollen grains. I agree with frosty that pesticides are a big factor and I believe high temperatures and drought conditions are also key causes. The bees are at the mercy of the elements.

    Thanks to frosty for informing me about the water. I figured they needed it by how many bees are attracted to the site, but I'm still not sure if they prefer high fructose syrup or water. I'm trying to set up other sites farther away for bees that can't fly this far from their flight path. Does anyone know how far a bee can fly from his home and back in one day? Any suggestions on how far to space out the water feeding sites? It is so dry where I live, there aren't many natural ponds and streams with decent water left.

    Here are some images of what I described in the previous post on flickr:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/11951055@N08/

    I hope that works because it is the first time I am using flickr.
     
  20. Ojo

    Ojo Junior Member

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    As bees typically forage only at distances greater than 100m (110yd) from the hive there is little one can do specifically for your bees if you have a small site. This should not stop you planting bee friendly species, however, as bees from elsewhere will surely drift in. Water should always be provided in some form. A few well placed rocks or pebbles in a pond works well, making sure the bees can land on a dry part and ‘walk’ to the water’s edge.

    On larger sites, specific planting can help the bees, especially during lean periods. Bees need two major types of forage – nectar and pollen (a source of protein for rearing new workers). Bees will generally choose the sweetest nectar source and hence fly up to 3 miles (5km) or so for brassica crops like OSR. The aim of planting should be to provide good sources of nectar through-out the year and pollen during the times of growth in the colony – particular early and late in the season.
    (excerpt)
    https://www.permaculture-magazine.co.uk/ ... le_38.html
    https://daviswiki.org/Davis_Bee_Collective
    https://www.beemaster.com/honeybee/beehome.htm
    https://www.dpug.blogspot.com/

    Bumblebee nest boxes and nest sites
    Most natural bumblebee nests are down a small tunnel in part or all of an old mouse or vole nest, or they will be in the dry base of a grass tussock or untidy hedge bottom. Gardeners ruin these desirable residences by being tidy.
    https://www.bumblebee.org/nestboxes.htm
     

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