Sheet mulching

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by j.bruce, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    I know there are many different formulas for doing this, what's your way?



    Also, being realistic, how long does it take for cardboard/newspaper to biodegrade?
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    for me did a sheet mulch after doing a 2 day intro' to permy' course. here in the sub tropics app 10+ or 11+ with the usa zone system, the carboard and paper (app 20 to 30 pages) rotted away in around 6 months or less. i do raised beds and use up to 40 sheets of paper, the madium is about 10"s thick and about the same result paper and carboard gone depending on moisture ie.,. how much rain fall. with the sheet mulch i layed a layer of green hay and then a layer of straw made pockets and used potting mix/mushroom compost and planted seedling works fine especially if you are getting kids interested too easy.

    len
     
  3. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Here in western WA, USA, I've put down cardboard in fall & only had bits left by spring. Laid in spring, it keeps the weeds down, and as long as it's covered, it usually degrades by fall. If it's not completely covered & is allowed to dry out, it lasts quite a bit longer & becomes a nuisance when the wind blows.

    The "chunkier" seeds seem to do better in new sheet mulching than the finer ones. Corn, potatoes, beans, peas are good. Carrots aren't.

    Sue
     
  4. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    Thank you.... I've heard that planting smaller seeded vegies is tough with sheet mulch.

    I was wondering if this would suppress ivy? I would believe so, but i do know how tough ivy is.

    I don't have access to as much compost as i will need for the project at hand.... I have about two large trash bags full of leaves raked from the site, about 2 more of leaves and ivy clippings, and a big pile of ivy vines that i'm getting rid of today. I have about one bale of hay that's beginning to decompose and a lot of cardboard boxes....

    Is this order ok:

    1) prepare elevations.
    a) Put down a little lime and nitrogen (i'm considering horse manure)
    2) put down the bags of leaves with ivy clippings
    3) put down cardboard
    4) put down leaves
    5) put down straw for top mulch
    6) soak it (i don't have a hose or nozel back there so that should be tough!!!)

    As long as i get about 300-350mm of the stuff on top of the cardboard, i figure i'll be fine with that....
     
  5. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Your plan looks fine, but I would water first, THEN put down the rest of the stuff. BUT I am wary of that ivy. I grew up in So.Calif, where ivy is rampant -- very difficult to kill off without herbicides. If you have to use it, I would put it on the very bottom, and hope the lack of sunlight kills it before it starts to root itself. Maybe shredding would help, if you can manage it.

    It's always hard to find enough compost materials. If you have a Starbucks around, ask if you can have their coffee grinds. If you have any processing plant that has non-toxic waste (mushroom, rice hulls, carrot peelings, etc), ask if you can have some. And don't forget the horse stables -- the EPA is leaning more heavily on them than in the past.

    Good luck!

    Sue
     
  6. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    The ivy scares me.... i don't want to propegate it more than it already is.... my girlfriend is angrier at its existance than is healthy to be angry at a plant!!

    Thank you for the leads... wouldn't have thought of Starbucks...

    I preferr to stick with organics/compost material, but for the sake of knowledge, what's the scoop on other soil amendment products? Pete moss and the like?
     
  7. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Peat moss: expensive, non-renewable (in the larger sense), hard to wet down initially, impossible to wet down if it dries out in the soil, any on the surface blows away. It is an acid product, so if you have alkaline soil (which I doubt in PA), it's okay if you really mix it well with the soil, but I wouldn't put it on the top. If you have acid soil like I do, it's adding acid to acid, so I rarely use it. It has no nutritional value. Wet peat moss can grow a few particular varies of mold that are detrimental to your health.

    Vermiculite: contains asbestos (both are found together in mineral deposits, so they can't separate it; sources vary as to % of asbestos). Helps drainage.

    Perlite: helps with keeping the soil lighter to promote drainage, no health hazards except breathing a lot of the fine particles isn't so great for your lungs.

    Although the gurus of Lasagna Gardening (aka glorified sheet mulching) promote the use of some of these materials, esp peat, all of the above are most useful when incorporated well into the soil. For top mulch, I would stick with straw, spoiled hay, manures (not pig- pigs are susceptible to many of the same diseases than humans are).

    If hay is cheap, use that. Many people say not to, as it has too many weed seeds. I have some chickens that I let run loose over the mulch, and they pick out the seeds. But if you keep your mulch deep enough (like 8"), you shouldn't have much weed sprout at all. And what you do have is easy to pull up and lay on top. The sun will kill it.

    When I get around to it, I would like to have some large moveable chicken pens (maybe that orange netting used for construction limits). I would like pen the chickens on the site and let them cut down the seeds, rip up the soil, then I would start adding heavy mulch. They can go through it, find any seeds or bugs, and they'll manure it & stir it up. I've done small areas so far, and it seems to be working. This summer will tell for sure.

    Sue
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    why the lime is the ph of the soil out of whack? if you need to use lime go for the dolomite lime, or just use gypsum if you have heavy clay. i would then lay the carboard and then any other material you have horse poo and the rest, might be best if you rely need the ivy to compost it first, then the layer before the straw i would add a layer of mulch hay.

    len 8)
     
  9. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    I'm looking heavily into mushroom soil as an option here. I've pretty much settled on the idea that if i'm going get any kind of rise out of these beds (someone mentioned 8", i was only going to do about 5", but all the better!!!) i'm going to need something better than what i've got.

    Here's my new supply list and plans:

    1)Prepare elevation (i'm only saying this because there's some really uneven areas due to the ivy problem vs my solution :D )
    2)add 1" mushroom soil
    3)put down cardboard
    4)soak
    5)put down seedy, decomposing hay
    6)put down raked leaves (i've thrown away the bags with ivy clippings in it, i don't want that problem :wink: )
    7)put down quite a bit of mushroom soil
    8)put down straw
    9)soak

    I think i've got a winner with that above process... ??

    I may apply lime on a topical basis.... i'm trying to get a portobello patch to grow, and they like a bit of lime.

    I'm also considering the use of some kind of fungal soil amendment like Mycogrow. I've heard that this kind of amendment can asist the nutrient gathering capacities of the plants.... here's the link

    https://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html

    What have you heard about this?
     
  10. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    I've just lately been hearing a bit about mycorrhizal fungi. Overall, I think it's too new to hear much in the way of resulting testimonials. But it does sound reasonable, which is more than you can say for many things!

    Have you had any kind of soil test done yet? Your local Cooperative Extension Service probably offers testing at a reasonable price. Areas with high rainfall tend to have more acidic soil, but it's always nice to know what to aim for.

    Sue
     
  11. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    I have never done a soil test.... i'm pretty well temporate here. East coast US gets a good amount of rainfall, my local stats say 62". I have a feeling i'm good to go. The soil is pretty well good to go as it is.... I only want to sheet mulch because of the ivy.

    i'll need to consider doing that test though.
     
  12. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    I've recently recieved a bit of static from a fellow gardener about the use of mushroom soil as a sole sorce of bedding for a garden bed. The argument was that the nitrogen was too high. I will mention that my friend is not a practitioner of the no-dig style, so we may be comming from two completely different camps.
     
  13. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    I just did a quick google & found this site
    https://www.melcourt.co.uk/amenity/prods ... mprd24.htm

    Which indicates that the mushroom waste contains low nitrogen & phosphorus, more potassium. They recommend adding about 2" to your soil, then mixing it in 6" deep.

    I don't know where (exactly) it would fit in sheet mulching. But being that low in nitrogen, it may not be best to bring in a 10-yard load of it.

    Have you checked out the GardenWeb forum? They have a Lasagne technique which is really sheet mulching, but the name is taken from a book.

    https://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/soil/ is the GardenWeb soil forum.

    Sue
     
  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    all i can say about the mushroom compost is 'it works for me' and it's still working for me. i have read a lot that amounts to scare mongering because it's outside the "square" for some normal book reading gardeners.

    len :D
     
  15. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    GREAT! I read stuff that made the use of mushroom compost sound iffy. But I do have access to it.

    Gardenlen, how do you use it? Do you use it in sheet mulching? Where do you place it? How much do you use (deep)? Do you use anything with it in particular? Have you ever tried it for starting seeds in containers? Any handy tips?

    Sue
     
  16. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day sue,

    well i guess those garden book authors have got to say something to get their books sold hey?

    i use the fresh stuff now as i can't access the decomposed stuff up here, don't reckon it would work for seeds can't say realy never tried it and i don't hae a good record at germinating funny hey?

    typically i lay the newspaper, put up the edging, then place any sort of lumpy green or brown material in the bottom ie.,. prunings and twigs leaves whaever you have around, then if i can source any i lay any manures i can get hold of, then the mushroom compost it generally ends up at least 8" thick of a 10 or so " deep medium layer, then i cover with around 8"s of mulch hay, or straw that's been through the chook yard and that's about it i pad the mushy down a bit using a nail rake end on to give a bit of compacting, give it a good water as well. then plant into it.

    typically there after i retop with more mushy after a year or 2 or add a layer of shredded material, under the mulch hay, we bury our compostable kitchen scraps in the beds as well, and water things as much as we can with our night water added to fresh water each day.

    buy some composting worms and add the the beds this gets things moving along until your local worms move in, if you add shredded prunings etc.,. or kitchen material regularly the composting worms will be around for quiet a while.

    we have a composting toilet so that ends up in the beds as well.

    for me there are no set rules.

    len
     
  17. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Thanks, Len! That sounds pretty good. I think sometimes the book writers haven't really used some of the stuff, and hesitate to tell people to pour on 8" of the stuff. But I love it when people who have really used it jump in with their info!

    I might have some access to spoiled hay fairly soon, but I've never used it before. I have some chickens, but I'm fairly new to them, too (they're 10 mos old). In your opinion, would it be okay or not to put the chickens in with the spoiled hay? I know there must be molds & fungi in the hay, and I've hesitated to put the chickens in with something like that. Usually, I use dry stuff and let them work it over.

    Any other "chook" people can chime in, too!

    Sue
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day sue,

    don't think it will do the chooks any harm as all they would be doing is picking at any seed that may be in the hay, but they will certainly value add to it.

    len
     
  19. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    As a follow up on this, i've done it.... but i'm having some troubles that make me glad i haven't planted anything yet!

    I sheet mulched in my coldframe.... pretty much just threw a 4x8 sheet of cardboard over some kitchen scraps and let it be until i get some mushroom compost and straw to throw on top. The problem that i'm seeing already is that after a storm, the water isn't draining quickly at all.... in some spots, the water is about 3" deep and refuses to soak through as quickly as i would think it should. This may be because i'm using one large piece of cardboard which completely blocks out everything beneath it instead of several overlapping sheets which may drain better..... is this a problem or should i just ignore it?
     
  20. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    It's just my opinion, but the same features that helps keep weeds from sprouting through the cardboard from underneath is going to keep the rainwater from draining through, too. And, is the ground frozen?

    If you want to, you could always rip it into 3 or 4 pieces and overlap them.

    Also, I use cardboard a lot, and have noticed that it breaks down MUCH less quickly when not covered than when it is covered with mulch. Just good contact with the soil can do it. I've placed cardboard over garden beds, then anchored ita against the wind with large rocks. The first part of the cardboard to break down is what is directly under the rocks.

    Sue
     

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