Mycology in Permaculture

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by j.bruce, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    Has anyone here tried to experiment with mycology in their designs? I've been researching mushroom growth recently, and would see no reason not to add a substantial amount of mushroom cultures to any permaculture creation. I can provide a lot of good reasons why this would be a good idea, but first, has anyone tried this with good results?
     
  2. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    I haven't personally farmed fungi beyond welcoming volunteer fungi to do their thing, but there are quite a few people who are right into incorporating fungi farming into their Permaculture systems.
    Paul Stamets from the Pacific northwest of North America has published some awesome books on the subject. He runs a mushroom mailorder called fungi perfecti.
     
  3. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    I'd love to grow my own fungi - but Queensland temperatures are a bit hot. I once read about a fungi growing technique that used hydrogen peroxide in low concentration to get rid of need for all the sterile conditions normally used in the initial culturing. Nearly bought the full book - web based - bu t was put off by cost, likely temperature constraints and not knowing where I could buy spores.
     
  4. j.bruce

    j.bruce Junior Member

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    I am certainly familiar with Fungi Perfecti and Stamets... I was, however, unaware that he was working fungi in with permaculture. I'm strongly considering attendance of his class within the next year or so.
     
  5. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    paul stamets

    Well yeah, in his book "Growing Gourmet & Medicinal Mushrooms" Stamets has a chapter called "Permaculture with a Mycological Twist: The Stametsian Model for a Synergiystic Mycosphere". It goes into some detail about how fungi of varying sorts can be used to catch nutrients in a Permculture system.
    What sort of classes does he offer?
     
  6. markgreywa

    markgreywa New Member

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    mycology in permaculture.

    Here in the western aus, there are several microbe blend innoculants available. I have used the trichoderma blend supplied by Western Mineral Fertilizers that they recomend be used as an innoculant on their mineral fertilizers for broad scale application. Plus another called SC20, Tricho, means hair in latin and derma skin. These microbes apparently increase surface areas of plant roots increasing ability to take up moisture and nutrients. I belive that if you have degraded farmland with super history and cropping history or any land for that matter introducing beneficial microbes insures that you have the workers to improve the soil ecology.Mark.
     
  7. funkyfungus

    funkyfungus Junior Member

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    Queensland is just fine for growing mushrooms
    l you just need the right types!

    The following would do just fine there over the wet season

    Pink oyster, golden oyster, Warm fruiting strain common osyter, Indian oyster, Wood ear, Reishi

    and in autumn

    Shimeji, shiitake, King stropharia. Agrocybe

    i have all these available as mycosyringes that is fragemnts of mycelium suspended in sterile water in 10mL syringes or as cultures
    all youll need is a presure cooker and the rest is recycled or home/shop materials
    If future ill have ready to go spawn.

    for more info bookmark me and check in again shortly

    https://home.iprimus.com.au/reville1/index.htm

    [email protected]
     
  8. funkyfungus

    funkyfungus Junior Member

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    Re: mycology in permaculture.

    Trichoderma spp. are not mycorrhizal species and dont help mineral uptake or accessibility for plants.
    Trichoderma are a wood decaying green mould that excretes enzymes that dissolve the cell walls of competitor fungi
    Aggressive strains will colonise the outer surface of a plant and their activity will protect the plant from infection by root pathogens like pythium and others
    research Trichoderma harazianaum on google

    Mycorrhizal fungi actually infect the root hairs and tips of roots and form structures by which the plant feeds the myceliums sugar in return for the fungus transporting nutrients like phosphorus back to the plant. Mycelium is much finer than root hairs and can ft into small soil spaces and using a range of ezymes will exract minerals from rock or humus.
    I dont know of any manufacturers in australia

    as for beneficial microbes you can beat organic matter, green manures and composts (or compost teas) for this. Yu can bring soil to life from exhaustion in a few good seasons with the right ammndmnts and management.
    Trichoderma harazianum is a useful crop protector but its long term value is probably negligible
     
  9. Cly

    Cly Junior Member

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    I am thinking of growing a small amount on my block for my own use as I just LOVE them, but I'm definately going to breed Kombucha mushrooms again when I'm on my block. Haven't done that for a couple of years. I haven't had much to do with mushrooms except kombuchas and you breed them in liquid...must read up on this. I've seen and heard of many instances where people have intergrated it into their system I just wish I could remember where I saw them information heh. You might want to write into Grass Roots Magazine and enquire to all the readers about this. Questions I have sent in have been answered by a dozen letters, sometimes more sometimes less but there is always someone willing to write to you and share information.

    Thank you funkyfungus (love that name heh) for that info on varieties for us 'banana benders' over here on the east coast, has set me on the right path.
     
  10. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Thanks Funkyfungus. I will definitelly purchase your product provided I can see that the growing process is not too complex and not too expensive. I imagine you will have information packs to explain?

    Everything I have seen in the past looks far too complex in terms of sterility etc.

    I'd love to grow oyster mushrooms etc.

    I will watch your site for more info.

    Thanks again.
     
  11. funkyfungus

    funkyfungus Junior Member

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    Thanks!

    yes ill have the info with any products or up on my site and also in pdf form eventually so it can be accessed by palm comp (saves paper)

    I would recommend oyster mushrooms to anybody
    they are very easy and will give u confidence to try others

    there are 3 ways to go...

    1.
    At firts ill just have 10ml syringes filled with mycelium and sterile water
    to use them youll need a pressure cooker but all the other gear is prob at home already

    then collect some jars, a hammer, hole punch and some 'polyfill'
    see https://www.fungifun.com
    for polyfill jars

    you cook some grain, sterilise in the jars 1 hour
    cool. then injecting through the polyfill you put 1-2 ml of the culture syringe into it

    this doenst requier sterility cos ive already dont that bit by putting it into the syringe, and youve made the sterile spawn substrate

    the mycelium will grow through in about a week give or take

    then you use the grain to spawn lime soaked or heat treted straw
    (pictorials to come on my site)

    2.
    Buy precolonised grain spawn from me in bags
    (later)
    3..
    Buy precolonised dowel spawn from me in future
    the dowels get hammered into fresh cut logs or stumps which once colonised will fruit over several years
    more info to come

    You can go many different ways and get into DIY as much or as little as u like with this
    simply the less i do the cheaper it is
    so buying spawn is very easy but a bag of spawn will set you back at least $25 plus postage (still costing as the product develops) but it makes it easy

    whereas a 10ml culture syringe will cost $15 for most species and you can make at least 5 jars of spawn from that and if u get clever you can keep it indefinitely
    (i sell all sorts of culture lab equipmenst to help you there too.)

    to get an idea of how far spawn goes id say that one ex-pasta sauce jar of polyfil grain spawn can do a small garbage bag of straw and give you well over a kilogram of fresh oyster mushrooms when you get the hang of it (or get lucky)

    i think a bag of spawn would do 4-5 garbage bags and i think the culture syringe will do 5-10 jars

    again more pics to come on my site
    ill announce when its up and functional

    From the permaculture perspective oysters are great because they are good converteres of waste to food and the resulting straw has improved digestibility and protein content and is useful as feed
    Also oysters secrete potent nematode toxins and so leftover straw dug into the soil can reduce nematode infestations
    (oysters eat nematodes after stunning them)
     
  12. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Funkyfungus

    I've been keeping and eye on your website and see that the product has now been added. I'm quite excited about giving the mushroom growing a go, I've wanted to for years now - but until your posts though it was beyond reach in my climate. The thing is I'm only likely to give it a go if I can start off in a very minimalistic way - not having to buy much equipment - using household items and easilly purchased mediums etc to start with.

    The amount of info regarding growing methods etc on your site is volumous and although good, can be a bit overwhelming as well. This is something I think that may stop pretty ordinary people like me from giving it a go.

    I'm not interested at this stage in making my own cultures (sporeprints etc), but am also not interested in buying a preinnoculated bag of compost or whatever (I want to do more of the process myself). I'm interested in something in between ie buy spore syringe and go from there. I'm happy to buy whatever mushroom is easy to start with and to use whatever method is easiest (e.g prepare and inoculate grain mix and then put into straw mix or whatever when it is ready).

    Being very much a newby - I guess I don't want to be given too many choices as to how I may go about it - otherwise I'll spend all my time thinking about it and never do it.

    Accordingly, a bit of feedback Funki, I reckon you would be well placed to do up one of your fact sheets showing from start to finish the easiest/most appropriate way for a newbie to grow some mushy's from a spore syringe (I know there is stuff on your site along these lines - but it does not follow process from start to end). I'd also want the fact sheet to tell me such things as what else do I need to buy? what do I need to do with it? and for me the big question - what media do I use to grow them in after the grain or whatever is ready to be mixed in (I have seen you reference limed straw - this looks to me to be a readilly available method for a newby - but I have only seen fleeting mentions of it.

    Anyway I'll continue monitoring your site as you finish building it and if I can get my head around it all I'll try growing from spore syringes.

    I hope it all goes well for you.

    PS. I see you have links to Randall Wayne's site. Have you read his books. It was stumbling upon his site several years ago that first got my interest going in the possibility of growing mushrooms. I had some e-mail contact with Randall as I was seriously considerring buying his books. The exchange rate at the time was a shocker and he agreed to sell me both books for the price of one (still about $100 Aus from memory) - but then put me off by saying that I might have trouble getting any spores in Australia and that growing mushies in Brisi might be a problem because of the climate.

    Do you use any of his methods re: hydrogen peroxide?
     
  13. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    When I say spore syringe, I mean mycelium syringe - it's taken me this long to realise the difference - I feel like a dick.

    Anyway - I have been inspired to look at Randall Wayne's site again and was pleasantly surprised at how reasonable the price of his books are. Exchange rate is better now and I think they have probably gone down in price as well.

    Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and get volume 1 & 2. Now that I know I can get the clutures here in Aus - there whould be nothing stopping me.

    Yeehaa
     
  14. bjgnome

    bjgnome Junior Member

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    Permaculturalists both at The Farm in Tennessee and Earthaven in North Carolina are growing mushrooms and offering how-to workshops.

    -Jonathan
     
  15. funkyfungus

    funkyfungus Junior Member

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    thanks for the helpful comments veggie

    yes we have some info in there but we are in need of some easy pictorials
    we are attempting that with the grow log section but its not properly installed yet

    il post her eto update when we have something more concrete
    yes i am familar with the peroxide tek and its good value

    if you follow it you will succeed
     
  16. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    I have received my copy of volume 1&2 of Rush Wayne's guide. It looks really good and quite simply in most respects. The biggest challenge will be finding substitute ingredients for all the things he uses - many of which are not available in Aus. I note that FunkyFungus talks briefly about the availability of substitutes in some of their website's fact sheets - so hopefully with some further communication with Funky all will become clear from an Australian point of view.

    I note that FunkyFungus' shop sells cultures of the types of mushroom that Rush recommends for use of his peroxide method. In this regard once the gaps are filled in there should be no obstacle to beginners like myself giving mycology a go in Australia. FunkyFungus' shop also sells all the lab equipment for getting going - like petrie dishes, scalpel's etc.

    It's surprisingly difficult to source some of these things locally. I guess the population here just doesn't support these types of stores (ie. science stores) on a retail commercial basis.

    Anyway looking forward to my first go at growing.
     
  17. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Funky - it just occurred to me that you did not mention the elm oyster as being suitable for Queensland conditions. Is this the case? If so - of the types that you currently sell as agar cultures - which are suitable for SE Queensland and in what season. I guess now may not be the time for me to start : (
     
  18. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    FunkyFungus has now put some info in the species area of their page. This indicates that that the Elm Oyster and Shimeji are one in the same. So that is one of my questions answerred : ) Looks like I might have the Winter to sit through before I give it a go though : (
     
  19. sab

    sab Junior Member

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