A few aquaculture questions

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Anastasia, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. Anastasia

    Anastasia Junior Member

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    I obtained a free aquarium yesterday, so I've started planning my "pond". I've read what I can but most books are geared towards inground ponds, and whilst there is mention of container ponds in Lawns into Lunch it doesn't cover the specifics.

    So. My plan is to have a few different plant varieties and some small native fish for mozzie control. I don't know what my chances are of attracting frogs, but anything is possible so I am looking at Pacific Blue Eye or Firetail Gudgeons. Would these be adequate to keep mozzies under control? The tank has a surface area of 3240cm2, so am also not sure how many fish I could have. Any quick rule for this sort of calculation?

    I have read to start off beneficial microorganisms it is good to add a handful of mud from an established pond. I live right next to mangrove mudflats, would this be okay? Or would that be a big no no?

    How much room does taro require? Can't seem to find that info anywhere lol. Would love to grow it but I don't want to dedicate the fishtank just to it and azolla. On my wish list are watercress, azolla, kang kong, cumbungi, water chestnuts, taro, native ginger and water mint, and I do realise I need to cull the list ;). Watercress is something I definitely want.

    Any advice and or experience would be appreciated.
     
  2. Anastasia

    Anastasia Junior Member

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    Wow 139 views and no replies... how funny. ;)

    About the only thing I'm still not sure about is the mangrove mud question. Is there ANYONE out there who knows if this would be usable or not?
     
  3. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    Hi :)
    yeah yeah, i know i'm probably the least qualified to answer your q's
    but i'd say yeah sure, there'd be heaps of creepy crawlies and all sorts of living organisms in the mud so why not,
    i'd grab a handful from a few different spots.
    frogs might rock up aventually if there's nice hiding spots for 'em and you could also look around water ways for tadpole eggs and maybe pinch a scoop and put them in your pond to incubate.

    Ben
     
  4. Anastasia

    Anastasia Junior Member

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    ROFL Thanks Ben! (Love the wave...)
     
  5. Squeak

    Squeak Junior Member

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    Gotta love the name changes to "suit" the ethos of the moment.

    Since when did 'aquaponics' become a trendy name for fish keeping? :D
     
  6. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    hydroponics is the same thing isn't it? growing in water.
    hydro = water, aqua = water.
    ponics don't mean nothing, so it's like calling a chook a chicken, same thing.

    should of had a fishy ring to it, like fishponics, or tucker in a tub.
    personally i don't get it myself, maybe the backyard part is what it's all about? people been stocking fish in their dams for yonks i agree, so maybe this is what you need to do in a small backyard if you really need a few fish.

    it's not in the least sustainable unless you can breed the fish yourself
    and the equipment you need like pumps and valves and tubs and all sorts of junk, not to mention the eye sore you'd have in your backyard, the risk of legionaires and germs associated with the combination of regurgitating water and heat is a risky caper IMO.
    what happened to the old fly fishermen? now that's a skill, and a challenge and a great opportunity to spend a tranquil day out in nature with the family :)

    I still highly recommend a good local fish n chip shop though.
     
  7. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Anastasia,

    I'm no expert on the subject, but I have read that it's unwise to introduce elements of a wild natural system into an aquarium type setup due to the disease risk factor. You will get beneficial microorganisms, but you may also get a disease which would be a small factor in a wild system but could run rampant in a contained system.

    My take on the advice to get microorganisms from a pond is that if it is already a healthy contained system then there is no risk introducing part of it to a new contained system, whereas the same could not be said for the mangrove mud (a wild natural system). Hope that makes sense - there's actually a topic on this at Joel's forum (which Chickadee linked to) with similar advice FWIW.

    Squeak,

    The term 'aquaponics' is meant as a descriptive cross between aquaculture (fish keeping) and hydroponics (growing with a non-soil medium) - it's not some gimmicky rebranding of aquaculture.

    It actually takes the worst elements out of both tank aquaculture and hydroponics. Aquaculture in tanks requires massive amounts of water changing which is then wasted (literally down the drain with all the resulting after effects) in typical aquaculture setups. Hydroponics requires artificial chemicals as nutrient.

    Aquaponics is a closed system where the fish 'waste' is used to provide nutrients for plants, which means the water returned to the fish tank is both clean and oxygenated after it has been through the grow beds. No
    need for water changes once bacteria in the grow beds is fully established (a relatively short period), no need for hydroponic solutions for nutrients.

    It solves the major problems and cost of two important industries in one fell swoop. Typically, a system uses only 10% of the water used to grow produce and a mature system can produce a very sizeable harvest in a small area - hence the term 'backyard aquaponics.' There's plenty of other benefits, but that's a brief outline.

    I'd probably best steer clear of the utterly unfounded speculation and negative parts of Chickadee's last post, but I will leave you with the founder of this site - Geoff Lawton's - thoughts on 'Backyard Aquaponics' as developed and practiced by Joel:

     
  8. Anastasia

    Anastasia Junior Member

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    Thanks Jez, unfortunately I know no one with an established healthy pond :(. I will have to think of another way of introducing beneficial micro organisms.

    I'm interested in what you say about aquaculture requiring massive water changes. My plan is to use my tank as a contained system to grow plants, with the fish being incidental and there to serve a few purposes but not being the main reason. I thought the plants would keep the water clean for the fish, who would in turn provide nutrients for the plants... which is kind of like aquaponics but without the pumps and separation of plants from fish. Maybe my reasoning is flawed, but that's what most ponds do after all? It's just it will be productive not ornamental...
     
  9. Rod

    Rod Junior Member

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    Jez explained it rather well, but the trend you identify is certainly at work. I was thinking that a pond on my new property would be nice, but I find I can't have one. What I will have instead is a 'biotope'.
     
  10. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    JEZ, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST SAY YOUR SHIT WITHOUT CRITICISING MY OPINION ALL THE FUCKEN TIME.
    YOUR A DOG, PISS OFF AND DON'T EVER MENTION ME AGAIN OK FUCKWIT.
     
  11. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Anastasia,

    I see you registered with the aquaponics crew - if you post a message about getting some bacteria from someone local with a pond or from their aquaponics setup I reckon you'd be able to acquire some.

    The water change thing I mentioned was for high stocking (commercial) densities. Lots of fish = lots of fish waste, therefore the water becomes foul very quickly - plus there's no plants or anything to use the waste...which is where aquaponics comes in. IIRC, most tank only aquaculture operations require something like half the total water used changed every couple of days...don't quote me on that, but it's something similar...massive waste anyway.

    With a pond you can stock with a density of fish and plants which is in harmony with each other, or use fish which tolerate poorer quality water than those which are used for aquaculture purposes.

    Rod,

    Biotope eh? :lol:

    Chickadee,

    Joel has put a lot into developing his small scale version of aquaponics because he believes in its ability to help people, yet here you are on a public forum, talking about his system being prone to causing legionaire's disease, breeding germs etc.

    I can call that "totally unfounded speculation" because that's exactly what it is - you don't have the slightest bit of proof of any of that (because there is none).

    If YOU had put a lot of hard work and effort into developing the system, then someone came along without the slightest bit of proof and posted that it had a risk of causing life threatening diseases, you'd be ranting and cursing them for being a complete arsehole.

    Yet you don't see yourself as having acted in that way do you...you were just innocently offering your opinion?

    You have the right to an opinion, but when your opinion falsely denigrates other people's hard work (particularly at the level of saying it's potentially life threatening) and is unnecessarily negative based on your erroneous perceptions, then IMO it's anybody else's perfect right to point out that what you've said is "unfounded speculation" and "negative" - both comments which are hardly at the level of your last post.

    Sorry if you don't like it - maybe you could stop doing it and then I wouldn't have to correct the record so a hard working, good hearted person isn't falsely besmirched by your 'opinion?'

    If you explode like a bomb at the slightest real or imagined provocation from others - polite (as above) or otherwise - it's not hard to gain a fair idea of what would happen if someone's 'opinion' falsely trashed something you'd worked very hard to make a success.

    How about doing as you would be done by?
     
  12. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    Just piss off and leave me alone, we've had this discussion before at another forum too didn't we?
    just leave me alone, ignore me, that's what the button's for.
    I don't hide the fact that I'm new to all this permie stuff, but dogs like you
    can only see things in black and white, gosh you must be a real drag at bbq's. "No that's not how you cook a snag, peter bloody russel clarke said once that this is how you cook a snag" yeah you must be a real hoot.

    I think hydro/aquaponics isn't worth while, as a hobby off course it is, just like collecting things, you put a lot of money or time and effort into something and it is rewarding, but it's not for me and i don't feel the need to suck up to anyone like you do. you love a name don't you? and if that name is a permie and tells you to plant yourself in the ground and you'll clone yourself, you'd do it, you'd say, oh well since it's him it must be true, and i'll suck up to them and make myself a hero to them.
    joel doesn't need you to defend his thing, he has many followers and i'm proud of him, when he gets 10,000 devotees he can officially call his organisation a religion and be exemp from tax and get free tv advertising :)
    But your an absolute jerkoff jez, honestly, you won't let anyone have some fun, or let their hair down and and express a bit of stupidness.

    when planting yourself, be sure to add plenty of compost to the soil, and drink a bottle of seasol, once you feel tap roots protruding from your tootsies, trim your hair to encourage strong roots to develop, next spring you should see a new you forming.
     
  13. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Leave you alone? :lol:

    I assure you I don't want anything to do with you and hadn't commented to you at all since your last episode elsewhere until you decided to respond to my post on Jeff's thread by insulting both of us without the slightest provocation. Did you do that because you wanted me to ignore you, or because you wanted to put me down for thanking Jeff and try to start some sort of conflict?

    Now you decided to 'just let your hair down', 'have a bit of fun', 'express a bit of stupidness' by stating that you think aquaponics can cause a life threatening disease.

    I don't classify assassinating people's ideas or work as humorous and I don't think my view is unusual.

    You may think the common thread between all these incidents is me, but in reality it's bleedingly obvious that the common thread is you being deliberately rude for no reason, or trashing people's reputation/hard work through either total lack of thought for the consequences of doing so in a public forum, or worse, being deliberately provocative to cause trouble.

    None of us are perfect and we can all be capable of saying the wrong thing or offending people accidentally, but rather than realise it and do something about it, you explode, rant and insult...time and time again.

    I've never taken issue with you for a lack of Permaculture knowledge; quite the opposite. Despite your past behaviour, only last week I wished you all the best with your studies and offered my encouragement - as I did the first contact I ever had with you when I spent a couple of hours giving you advice on homebrewing despite not knowing you from a bar of soap.

    Barely 24 hours later you were demanding my address, insulting and threatening me for daring to say that I thought it was 'pretty lowdown to call Bill a money grubbing profiteer if you know nothing about him.'

    It's not me that has the problem mate, it's you.

    My only contact with you has been either offering help/advice, encouraging you or feeling obliged to defend others repeatedly from the things you say.

    I don't suppose that will register with you?
     
  14. makourain

    makourain Junior Member

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    looks like someones thread has been hyjacked by flamers and spammers.
    maybe you should just agree to disagree?
     
  15. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    Yeah, good point :)
    I have clicked the ignore jez button so that was the last time i'll read his trash.
    he calls me mate :lol:
     
  16. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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    oh how cool, his posts are all blank :)
     
  17. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    well, your loss, mate...
     
  18. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    Hey Ben, no need to be quite so agro....... chill out....

    I thought the comments that Jez made were fair in regards to the fact that you obviously don't fully understand aquaponics from the comments that you made, and he was just trying to explain further about aquaponics...

    As things have been so flat out lately I don't get as much time to visit here as I used to, but it's a little disapointing to come back to this sort of abuse...

    No there is no womans touch to my site (unfortunately, but there are many women there), and no, that's not me giving away $700, I wish... That is someone elses site...

    If you have any questions on aquaponics I'd be happy to answer them.... :)
     
  19. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    This thread has reminded me of why I stopped visiting here :(
     
  20. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Sorry to hear that VB - those of us that remember you miss your input around here.

    There's a lot more good than bad...but I know where you're coming from.

    One way or the other, I'd rather be abused than not attempt to correct the record. With a lot of visitors who don't know a lot anything about Aquaponics, reading that it's life threatening...Permaculture being about profiteering or whatever, it's not good for people to go away with bad impressions before they've really looked into it...and unfair for those who work hard at these things.
     

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