Alert for Frosty - Watch SBS July 13

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by heuristics, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

    "Dont Litter"

    A practise battlefield Wonder if signs warning "NOT to spill blood"
    Tezza
     
  2. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    On the war started in 2003, the UN Charter is clear. Australia is also signatory to The General Treaty for the Renunciation of War, AKA the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928. Regarding "huge mistakes" made, one of them certainly was participation in that war of aggression which, as the Nuremburg Judgement correctly points out, "is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." No "opinion" there - just a simple statement of fact.
     
  3. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    just another thought for soldier

    make sure you watch Dirty war ....... it may help you wake up to the BS you have been fed to see how military activities have led to little children dying in the Philippines ....... young lives ended before they begin so the US can rule the world

    its the same in Vieques puerto rico ( it is also probably in Alan's film I know he went there ) 70% of the population have sickness there is no ijdustry or anything else that could cause it except the military training.... there is hardly a family that that hasnt had at least 1 death many of them childr3n

    and it is starting here 2 people in my street have cancers of the type caused by military activities - but of course it will never be admitted


    this is the REAL death toll of militarism and it is much higher than any official figures of war deaths

    and they are ALL innocent civilians

    the poet shelley said

    Man has no right to kill his brother. It is no excuse that he does so in uniform: he only adds the infamy of servitude to the crime of murder."


    sorry but you have been brainwashed

    and you may turn into a farmer but until you learn to value ALL life IMHO you wont ever be a permie

    frosty
    pacifist scumbag :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: oh and I forgot moron :lol: :lol: :lol:

    PS heuristsics I will post some independant DU links later
     
  4. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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  5. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Soldier, I am glad that you are now a farmer. You know, your saying about good men doing nothing makes sense, but then, what about, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
    pacifism is actually the only option if you truly want peace. there is no way to peace, peace is the way...
     
  6. soldierturnedfarmer

    soldierturnedfarmer Junior Member

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    so you call me a moron and you just arrived :evil: I dont suppose I should expect anything different from a trained killer

    BTW a good friend of mine was in Iraq too as a human shield - that took real courage


    mmmmmm I think you need the education mate ........ by your post to tezza you really should find out what DU is because you have been exposed to it and it will probably kill you eventually .......

    it is the US weapon of genocide used in Iraq and probably in most aussie training areas

    it will probably kill us all

    frosty[/quote]

    Frosty,
    first of all, my appologies if you believe that I was referring to you as a moron. That was not the case at all, if you read my post I am not actually directing it at you however I admit I could have clarified it better. The people I am talking about were people who directly attacked me. For example, I had some moron try to rip my medals off on Anzac day or more specifically my fathers medals on the right side of my chest. We had the funeral for my dad the day before Anzac day this year so as you can probably understand I was distort still. So as you can probably imagine, that bloke got a good old fashioned clip around the ear, I did try to explain to him before that my medals were over my heart and on the right side is your relatives. However he kept trying to grab my dads medals and ended up ripping my suit and had me cornered in the bar so I couldn't walk away. He was highly intoxicated but he was in his late thirties so he should have known better, I am only in my mid twenties and I know to give people respect and courtesy and benefit of the doubt.

    Another time we were marching in a welcome home parade from East Timor when some uni students shovelled horse manure directly onto our path where we were marching. The soldiers broke ranks and ran in and punched on, to me this was idiotic though I can see why they did it. It bought disgrace upon ourselves, our unit and our country however everyone including the media tended to forget the fact that horse crap was shovelled on the road directly infront of us indicating severe disrespect and lack of understanding on what a soldier goes through.

    Like I said earlier, the ADF has a long way to go with regards to enviromental protection however the standard certainly is higher then in the 1980's. My advice would be to rally your local member and make sure that they keep to their promises. The ADF does have a lot of yes sir, no sir lip service men and women in its ranks and this needs to be fixed.

    Soldiering isn't all about being as you eloquently put it a quote "trained killer", a real soldier displays compassionate and empathy and during my time I always displayed christian values. I was a person first and a soldier second.

    As for being a human shield in Iraq, well I won't comment on that because it will spark intense debate. Obviously your friend is ok and that is the main thing.

    You shouldn't stereo type soldiers or ex soldiers, we aren't all rank and file orcs off lord of the rings who can't hold an effective debate or conversation and communicate only in field signals and the occasional clicks and clacks.

    As for DU, I am probably more worried about exposure to Asbestos as the buildings in my barracks was full of the crap.

    I will attempt to look at that site when time permits. Thanks for the info,

    respectfully yours,

    STF
     
  7. soldierturnedfarmer

    soldierturnedfarmer Junior Member

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    Well we always have another eye and the other saying is, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king :lol: :razz: joke


    STF
     
  8. soldierturnedfarmer

    soldierturnedfarmer Junior Member

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    Thanks for the welcome mate, much appreciated.
    As for the humanitarian efforts, I couldn't agree more, I am very proud of the guys cleaning up Cyclone Larry as the people up there really needed the help. Unfortunately the role of an army is not primarially to act like the state emergency service however it is a great secondary role for an army to fullfill. I know what DU is, I just didn't know what DU, the initials was. I have had a bit of knowledged with UXO etc in my time in the army. My health in the army was comprimised but through other means, not what I believe is to be DU. I have a good mate who was in the army back in the 70's and 80's and his brother is real crook with agent orange. He is having a real hard time fighting with the government, as I have said earlier, we treat our veterans like shit. The system needs a MAJOR overhaul.

    STF
     
  9. soldierturnedfarmer

    soldierturnedfarmer Junior Member

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    Thanks for the welcome mate, much appreciated.
    As for the humanitarian efforts, I couldn't agree more, I am very proud of the guys cleaning up Cyclone Larry as the people up there really needed the help. Unfortunately the role of an army is not primarially to act like the state emergency service however it is a great secondary role for an army to fullfill. I know what DU is, I just didn't know what DU, the initials was. I have had a bit of knowledged with UXO etc in my time in the army. My health in the army was comprimised but through other means, not what I believe is to be DU. I have a good mate who was in the army back in the 70's and 80's and his brother is real crook with agent orange. He is having a real hard time fighting with the government, as I have said earlier, we treat our veterans like shit. The system needs a MAJOR overhaul.

    STF
     
  10. Alex M

    Alex M Junior Member

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    The United States Presidency is currently under the control of a group of people who are, simply, fascists. They are fascists who closley resemble the historic NAZIs of World War 2, particularly because of their love of war, their contempt for life, and their desire to enslave the weak. Our Prime Minister, John Howard, is in league with them. Both our nations are still, nominally, democracies. The theory of our democratic system is that the people have the sovereign power to decide their own fate, rather than the government.

    The cabal of corporate-controlled mass murderers who are controlling our futures must be brought to heal. We, the people of these democracies, still have the right to choose our leaders. John Howard's enthusiasm for this global fascist cabal's abuse of human rights, which includes the use of torture to extract untrue confessions, and the suspension of the eight-hundred-year-old principle of habeas corpus, makes him a criminal co-conspirator. He has opened the door to the environmental destruction that these criminals are determined to inflict on the world.

    They have got to be stopped. They must be brought to justice. If their plans for the future come to fruition, this world will be a very unpleasant place for all but a few wealthy powerholders to live.

    NAZISM did not die with Hitler. With the aid of a number of powerful business interests, including George Bush's grandfather, Prescott, it found a haven in the United States, and is building a new, world Reich. These are dangerous times.
     
  11. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Did you hear that Saddam Hussein has gone on hunger strike? Well, he isn't eating anything, except sports drinks and coffee with sugar. YOu know, I'm not saying I supported his despotism, but you sort of have to respect anyone who takes on the US military with just sports drinks and coffee with sugar... :lol:
     
  12. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    Poor fool probly dont realise hes making the yanks a little bit richer,but not buying Local...

    Tezza
     
  13. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    so did anyone else actually watch Dirty war ?

    I found it excellent but it left me very sad and frightened

    the poor people in the philippines epecially those children ....... a little boy with a big growth on his face ........ a 14 yo who couldnt hardly move but joked about wanting to be a pilot and a 15yo dying of leukemia his mother trying not to cry

    how can people support militarism and let this happen ?

    will aussies feel any different when it is our children ?

    that is one of the things that really pisses me off about americans - 2800 people die inthe WTC and we never stop hearing about it yet show them foreigners dying due to american military bases - or dying in Iraq from DU or being shot by us soliers and they just ignore it :evil: the death toll in Iraq is approaching 200000 but they just refuse to count :cry:

    and did anyone else notice how "slimey robert" Hill refused to state that DU had not been used on Aussie soil

    on th subject of saddam he could never have killed as many people as the US invasion has :twisted:

    frosty
     
  14. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    it is nice of you to appologise but unfortunately no matter how you rephrase it it is obvious you consider any pacifist to be a moron and the cap fits me :lol: :lol: :lol: I am proud to be a passionate pacifist and anti militarism campaigner ........ I dont particularly care what teh pro military think :p

    although in reference to the incident of attacking you and ripping off medals no pacifist participates in attacks ........ they were probably pro militarists who didnt like you marching with your fathers medals ...... :twisted:

    now this is a typical pacifist activity as unfortunately was the violent response by the soldiers ....... and I agree they did disgrace themselves and show up what bullies they are ........ they dont diserve any respect

    personally a bit of good old horse shit does no harm :lol: if you are going to become an organic farmer you will have to learn to love shit 8) here on the forum we all love shit the more the better !! if someone threw shit at me I would thank them it is worth more than gold if you have dry sandy land :lol: :lol: :lol:

    We "rally" every politician we can :lol: slimey roberts secretary knew me well :lol: :lol:

    but the DoD never keep any promises they just invent a new lie .......they treat us with unhidden contemp and think they are better than us and above the law

    I dont know you maybe you are the one who is different ........

    but I have NEVER had any of the probably hundreds of soldiers and navy people I have spoken to display any compassion or empathy for the hell they make us live here .......

    eg every summer they ignore the fire danger and laws to protect people - on days when it is over 40c with a total vehicle movement in paddocks and harvesting ban they drive out into the bush in the DTA and do demolition - they refuse to put in ANY boundary firebreak ......... we all now it is only a matter of time until we get burnt out and they just dont care

    as to being trained killer - the main activity of the military is to train personell to kill so how then can any current or ex military person NOT be trained killer :?

    and as my shelley quote says murder in uniform is still murder

    anyone who joins the military is prepared to kill another human being which I am not FOR ANY REASON ........ you said you are a christian isnt life and death God's dept ? I am not religious but I do believe in do no harm

    he certainly is not ok how could anyone think so ? but it is not right for me to say any more than that

    have you ever read Riverbend blog ? try it and see what is really happening in Iraq ( will find link later cant open 2 windows now )

    I dont strereotype soldiers ( or navy ) - my opinion is based on the contact I have with them and that includes right up to colonels and commanders - universally so far they have been arrogant condecending pricks :lol: :lol: :evil:

    but I wouldnt say they cant hold a conversation or debate ....... they can lie better than most con men ...... they must have having a special lying school somewhere :lol: :lol:


    honestly mate I dont want to frighten you but DU is a very real threat and unlike asbestos which takes 20 years or more to cause problems DU will effect you much sooner

    the use of DU is he greatest war crime the world has ever seen ........ it makes the german nazis look like kindergarden

    do check out the site for Blowin in the wind and try and see it somehow ...... in the film there is a lot about former US major Doug Rokke ....... he took 100 men to Iraq after GW 1 to try to clean up DU and they are all either dead or dying

    Doug excretes 5000 times the safe amount of DU in his urine but the Pntgon tried to hide it for 5 years

    Doug was a military man through and through and served in Vietnam but when he found out about the eral situation with DU he turned whistle blower

    BTW I have actually met Doug IRL

    also in the film is an aussie soldier who went to GW1 and now has problems and fears for his childrena health

    and did you manage to see Dirty war ?

    I have nothing personally against you as I said you may the one soldier who is different :D you are certainly on the right track wanting to turn farmer

    but you did arrive here and pick out my post about the wonderful grandmothers of Henoko and launch into an attack on pacifists

    those grandmothers are the type of people who are real heros ....... they make a superhuman effort to help their community and to save lives even the lives of animals

    if we are ever to become civilised it is time to grow out of the outdated notion that war can ever promote peace and that people who don a uniform and go out prepared to kill other humans are some how better than the rest of us

    we have a long way to go and a lot to learn before we all do no harm

    good luck

    frosty
     
  15. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's some thoughts:

    1) We exist in a world-feudal state right now. Until there is one world government, there will continue to be feudal wars. Afterwards, there will be military action to "establish order".

    2) Pacifist or not (let's just say patriotic, whether we believe that is being suckered-in by the government or closely held core beliefs) after the establishment of a world government (of whatever ilk), there will be an extreme of classes, from the most priveleged to the seriously downtrodden.

    3) After a long period of underground activity, oppresive rule, and quarantine of areas of the earth due to deadly pollution, there will (hopefully) come a time of "enlightenment" and more equalization. Perhaps some real, global care of our planet.

    Caveats to all of this:

    1) We (the human race) get "off-planet" in a meaningful way before one world government (and subsequently carry the feudal-ness to space). This will start a new period of exploitation of extra-planetary resources.

    2) We never get off-planet and die out as a species due to our overall negligence and short sighted exploitation of the planet and perpetual war (with all the associated environmental and human tragedies that have been mentioned in this thread). Or perhaps small pockets of human survivors begin again?

    3) We finally get off-planet under a benevolent world government and ...?

    These are ideas that have been rattling around in my head since first reading this thread, following the current wars, researching DU and other environmental atrocities, and comparing what I see to history.

    Anyone else care to speculate on our species' possible long-term futures? Any other possible or more likely outcomes than those outlined above?

    9anda1f
     
  16. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    https://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

    what is really going on in Baghdad

    9and1f

    I am inclined to agree with you ........ the future looks glum

    and AlexM

    I meant to comment on your post which I think is spot on

    the axis of evil - bush blair and Howard make the nazis look tame

    and somestupid people still cant see it :cry:

    frosty
     
  17. soldierturnedfarmer

    soldierturnedfarmer Junior Member

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    We "rally" every politician we can :lol: slimey roberts secretary knew me well :lol: :lol:

    but the DoD never keep any promises they just invent a new lie .......they treat us with unhidden contemp and think they are better than us and above the law

    I dont know you maybe you are the one who is different ........

    but I have NEVER had any of the probably hundreds of soldiers and navy people I have spoken to display any compassion or empathy for the hell they make us live here .......

    eg every summer they ignore the fire danger and laws to protect people - on days when it is over 40c with a total vehicle movement in paddocks and harvesting ban they drive out into the bush in the DTA and do demolition - they refuse to put in ANY boundary firebreak ......... we all now it is only a matter of time until we get burnt out and they just dont care

    as to being trained killer - the main activity of the military is to train personell to kill so how then can any current or ex military person NOT be trained killer :?

    and as my shelley quote says murder in uniform is still murder

    anyone who joins the military is prepared to kill another human being which I am not FOR ANY REASON ........ you said you are a christian isnt life and death God's dept ? I am not religious but I do believe in do no harm

    he certainly is not ok how could anyone think so ? but it is not right for me to say any more than that

    have you ever read Riverbend blog ? try it and see what is really happening in Iraq ( will find link later cant open 2 windows now )

    I dont strereotype soldiers ( or navy ) - my opinion is based on the contact I have with them and that includes right up to colonels and commanders - universally so far they have been arrogant condecending pricks :lol: :lol: :evil:

    but I wouldnt say they cant hold a conversation or debate ....... they can lie better than most con men ...... they must have having a special lying school somewhere :lol: :lol:


    honestly mate I dont want to frighten you but DU is a very real threat and unlike asbestos which takes 20 years or more to cause problems DU will effect you much sooner

    the use of DU is he greatest war crime the world has ever seen ........ it makes the german nazis look like kindergarden

    do check out the site for Blowin in the wind and try and see it somehow ...... in the film there is a lot about former US major Doug Rokke ....... he took 100 men to Iraq after GW 1 to try to clean up DU and they are all either dead or dying

    Doug excretes 5000 times the safe amount of DU in his urine but the Pntgon tried to hide it for 5 years

    Doug was a military man through and through and served in Vietnam but when he found out about the eral situation with DU he turned whistle blower

    BTW I have actually met Doug IRL

    also in the film is an aussie soldier who went to GW1 and now has problems and fears for his childrena health

    and did you manage to see Dirty war ?

    I have nothing personally against you as I said you may the one soldier who is different :D you are certainly on the right track wanting to turn farmer

    but you did arrive here and pick out my post about the wonderful grandmothers of Henoko and launch into an attack on pacifists

    those grandmothers are the type of people who are real heros ....... they make a superhuman effort to help their community and to save lives even the lives of animals

    if we are ever to become civilised it is time to grow out of the outdated notion that war can ever promote peace and that people who don a uniform and go out prepared to kill other humans are some how better than the rest of us

    we have a long way to go and a lot to learn before we all do no harm

    good luck

    frosty[/quote:2gxk6za8]

    Frosty,
    How are you going mate?
    Hope all is well.

    I don't consider every pacifist to be a moron, I have members of my own family who are pacifists. I just think that there are genuine pacifists and others who are shit stirrers, for example one group who shall remain nameless who drags school kids out of school for rallies. These school kids didn't even know what they were protesting about. When I was in highschool and Muroroa (spelling I know) happened, I took a day off school to protest but I actually went to the rally, not like some of my mates who pissed off home for a vegemite samwhich and a swim.

    The guy was not pro military who ripped my fathers medals off, he was a pinko commie symapthising sap who was brainwashed and wouldn't listen to commonsense and reason. Like I explained earlier in my posts, you wear your medals over your heart and your relatives/mates that are deceased over your right side. It is commonplace tradition, no veteran or military sympathiser would have a go for that. You certainly have a lot of anomosity towards our service men and women. I was once refused entry by a bouncer into a club in Newcastle because he asked me if I was army and I answered proudly "yes". He then told me to piss off because he quote, "hated army pricks". I replied "why mate? did one sleep with your missus?" That gobsmacked him, I hate people that stereotype us just because there are some rotton apples in the barrell. Just because someone doesn't share your views, doesn't mean they are not a good person.

    I never mentioned the grandmothers of Henoko so I don't know why you think I attacked that facet of your post. You say that you are NOT prepared to kill a human being for ANY reason? I highly doubt that, I am sure that if your family was threatened, you would rise to the occasion. Have you ever heard of the flight or fight theory? It is in our genetic makeup, obviously you would try to get away but if you were cornered, you would fight.

    As for the unit breaking ranks and punching on, I don't condone it, however dickheads shovelling shit on the road should have been arrested. I guarentee they will at least think twice before doing it again. Its unfortunate that the pinko left media failed to mention the shovelling of the shit on the road, at the very least it was GROSS INCOMPENTENCE!
    My uncle got back from Vietnam and was hassled to no end. If you have a problem with our armed forces, TAKE IT UP WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT WITH THE TROOPS! That is your democratic right, I am always forced to at least verbally defend myself, it is not a crime to be patriotic! Most of us have good intentions, when I have been overseas we have always had huge hearts and minds campaigns to avoid bloodshed and it works! The yanks could take a huge leaf out of our book and follow our example. A lot of people join the defence force to learn skills and serve their nation, not just kill. Granted I was infantry and that was my main role however I had my reasons.

    I have a mate that joined and became a cook, now he is working in one of the best resturants in asia. I tell you what if he had to pick up a rifle and fight, you know we're in trouble, he didn't fire a shot at the range once for 15 months!

    I don't understand your comments on this "hell hole" that the ADF is making you live in! This country is the best country in the world, I am widely travelled and I have gone places where there is no way you could access them as a civilian. You may put crap on soldiers, sailors and airman but I think this is your democratic right, you should just redirect your animousity to the government.

    I think this poem sums it up well:

    The Soldier

    It is the soldier, not the reporter,
    who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet,
    who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
    who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
    who has given us the right to a fair trial.

    It is the soldier,
    who salutes the flag,
    who serves under the flag,
    and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
    who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    By Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC


    Kind regards as usual,

    STF
     
  18. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Actually, mate, it is usually soldiers who deny freedom of the press. They are the ones the government uses to go around smashing up radio stations and newspaper offices, or simply intimidate.
    It is the reporters and other speakers who have the courage to stand in the face of such threats, real or implicit, and make their voices heard, who guarantee freedom of speech, noone else.
    If I am to thank soldiers for my freedom, I also have to thank them for the instability and everpresent violence in the world.
    There is no way to peace, peace is the way. Or; violence begets more violence.
    It isn't that hard to understand, is it?
     
  19. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    mmmmm you are a worry STF you either misunderstood or missed the point of most of what I said

    maybe I should rethink my comments about soldiers and debating :?

    maybe I should tell you I am not a "mate" :lol: I am actually a little old lady

    and as usual living near a DTA well is not well ........ weekends mean weekend warriors rampaging through the bush and keeping us awake allnight with the noise of gunfire :evil: so I am grumpy tired and ugly cause wen you are old and buggered you really do need your beauty sleep

    so I am going to address this comment you made first - please try really hard to read what I say carefully


    my coment related in no way to the county - I live in hell because I live near a DTA ...... sadly if not for the military this could have been a really good place to live

    it is coastal heath country with lots of unique flora and fauna ...... it should be a nature reserve not have the military trashing the vegetation and killing wildlife in droves

    the emissions from their explosions are polluting our air with carcinogens and neurotoxins and will eventually kill us and probably kill our children first

    the decay of the remains of the bombs as well as the UXO is polluting our water supply

    in summer the military are the neighbours from hell who dont observe the fire safety laws and we are scared to leave our property and our animals in case they start a fire ..........

    as already said the noise of bombing and gunfire means we cant sleep

    we have the fear of US planes flying over us when they come ...... we all know how accurate they are

    so this part of Australia along with other sites like pristine Shoalwater is being destroyed

    why is that OK with you ????????????? what justification can there be

    of course their are some shit stirrers among pacifists there are among any group ......... even your mates :wink: so how many of you army mates are in it just for the thrill of carrying a gun and itching to shoot someone or something ? :twisted:


    mmmmmm so you do understand the concept of brainwashing ......... but think who is in the best position to be brainwashing - the commies with a few members and hardly any funds - or a large govt funded organisation eg the military :wink: and they need young men like you as cannon fodder

    and for the life of me cant find any common sense or reason for why we invaded Iraq - just greed - OIL Operation Iraqi Freedom :lol: :lol: :lol:

    it took years of all out effort by the military to create my animosity :lol: :lol:

    I already told you my attitude comes from my experience ........ if I was as bad as you say I wouldn't be bothering debating with you would I :oops:

    again I am NOT prepared to kill a human being

    your phrasing killing as rising to the occasion is a worry ........ so you think of it as a good thing wheras I would definately view it as sinking to the level of the attacker

    [uote]As for the unit breaking ranks and punching on, I don't condone it, however dickheads shovelling shit on the road should have been arrested. I guarentee they will at least think twice before doing it again. Its unfortunate that the pinko left media failed to mention the shovelling of the shit on the road, at the very least it was GROSS INCOMPENTENCE![/quote]

    so who brainswshed you with all this pinko stuff :? I thought the military had moved on to new villains :evil: :evil:

    and you really DO need to learn to love shit if you want to be a permie :lol: :lol: :lol:

    my generation had more guts than the present kids and we knew vietnam was all a lie ........ we supported those who had the guts to be conscientious objectors and yes we protested against those who went and killed inncoent people.........bt why should soldiers be above reproach ? they took part in mass genocide ....... did you know that MILLIONs of innocent vietnamese were killed by that military adventure ?

    as I said I take it up with BOTH

    ROFLMAO :lol: :lol: :lol: people who lie near a military training area have no rights we are expendable for the glory of militarism

    I know its most ungrateful of us not to just die quietly


    so why shouldnt you have to defend your actions ? we are all responsible for what we do and as such should be able to defend our reasons fo doing so

    being in the military IS no different yet you seem to think it puts you above reproach ?

    patriotism is not a crime but maybe it should be ……..along with nationalism it breeds racism

    a few quotes from some very wise people

    Our true nationality is mankind.
    HG Wells

    Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -
    George Bernard Shaw

    Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit.
    Emma goldman

    One of the great attractions of patriotism -- it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous." -
    Aldous Huxley

    Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action!"
    Albert Einstein




    sorry but I think your poem is just the biased justifications of a US marine


    here is something by someone much more famous and a lot less biased

    kind regards
    frosty
     
  20. permanut

    permanut Junior Member

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    After reading this thread (I should'nt of) I am so angry words just cannot describe. The Depleted uranium link was horiffic...it has mentaly scarred me.STF you are the one who seem to be brainwashed IMO.
    Im off out to my garden now to try and bring some joy back in my life.
     

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