marrying geodesic with thermal mass solar passive structure?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by heuristics, Jun 16, 2006.

  1. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    I went to an eco-show weekend on June 10/11 and saw this geodesic fixture
    >www.domecompany.com.au.<
    which I have now become infatuated with. I have the “perfect” site to place this structure and build a straw-bale home either side.
    My question centres around getting thermal mass into the dome – where I am thinking of placing this dome is atop a plateau with views down a gully to a dam… it faces due north-east and catches the first fingers of early winter sun….. thermal mass in this location would be important in warming the whole dwelling…. Any ideas of how to incorporate this interesting structure into a solar-passive home????

    Unfortunately although the company had a display at the eco show they didn’t have a “body”on site when I was there to actually ask real-time questions.

    Besides at this point I dont want sales pitch, I am interested in permie input on this as a concept???
     
  2. Honeychrome

    Honeychrome Junior Member

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    dome issues....

    I'm just old enough to remember the dome craze in the '70s, and building one was something my father talked about a lot. I always thought they were really cool (and thought Bucky Fuller was pretty neat too) and started doing some research not long ago on maybe building one myself. This site more or less disabused me of the notion:

    https://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/dome ... blues.html

    The links at the top of that page will take you to further information, and this is material written by someone who has a lot of experience with domes. I think a lot of good points are made, enough that on further thought a dome no longer made sense to me. To each his own, but have a read first. I will say that the occasional dome house I see in my travels now is usually in pretty sad shape...

    Yeah, I know, not really answering your question.... but the info may be useful!
    Tom
     
  3. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    But Tom! Domes are soooooo groovy!

    Acttually, I am still drawn to domes, and I am familiar with these problems, and would not build one myself.

    I had a friend in Oregon who lived in three domes connected with indoor causeways/hallways, set at odd angles to one another, so that there was a degree of privacy. The center dome was the living room dome, and it had a wood burining stove, comfortable seating and was wonderful to be in, large and spacious, but also warm and cozy.

    The other two domes were a kitchen and a bedroom. The bedroom was small, cozy, warm, private. The kitchen had lots of windows and was open and airy.

    I was young and had never built a house or anything, so did not have critical eyes to look at the structure, but I remember thinking that this was about the coolest house I had ever seen. I was very impressed!

    I loved the domebuilder blues. Very funny! Thank you for forwarding the url.

    Heuristics, a good way to catch and retain heat is a tombe wall, an internal wall that gets direct sunlight. However, with the round external shapes involved, this would be difficult to build. In the absence of interior walls of masonry, to act as a thermal battery, it would be possible to put in a monolithic slab of concrete to absorb heat during the day, and slow release it at night.

    This could be done, but it would take some very careful insulation to retain that heat, which the article Tom put here points out is difficult to do.

    I think a combination of solar heated floor, with a large masonry stove, would heat and retain heat in the structure. I think that the stove would have to be one of those stove that burns hot fast fires and slow releases the heat all night (Finnish or Russian style), and not just an iron stove.

    Read that article well, as it has lots of good points, but.... I still dream of domes, too....

    If you build ot, please share info!
     
  4. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    Usually, you would need to face the solar collector directly into the winter sun, since that's when you need the heat. In a dome, you wouldn't be able to shade that same area very well from the summer heat, so you would have to have sufficient (quite a few) openings for cool air LOW on the shady side of the house, and at the high point of the dome, to take advantage of the law of physics that assures you that heat rises. Cool air would come in low from the shady side and be vented out the top. Of course, these vents would be closed in cold weather. You may also want to plan for some small fans (solar would be nice) at the cool-air intake and at the hot-air exhaust sites.

    One thing that has possibly changed the problems with the domes is the rapid acceleration of tough membranes and sealers to prevent leakage, which people said was the main problem in the 70's.

    Sue
     
  5. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    Gee thanks for posting the geodesic blues - I think - (!).
    I guess I should go into these whims with my eyes WIDE open.
    I can tell I really have the geodesic bug though – cause even while I am reading one man's diary of doom I am thinking - “but I don't want a house.... just one room, with strawbale on each side...

    but I KNOW I am being offered good free sensible counsel here...


    maybe there is a way to get a round-room incorporated into the house design. The site really is perfect for at least a 145-degree curved front with straw bale "wings".

    thanks guys - i knew I could rely on help in thinking it all thru properly
     
  6. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    There is an interesting book that might help you with the solar aspects of your dome, but I don't know if it is available in Oz. The title is Solviva: How to grow $500,000 on one acre, and Peace on Earth by Anna Edey. Forget the subtitle and concentrate on her info on solar design. There is also info on composting toilets and graywater.

    Sue
     
  7. dewbee

    dewbee Junior Member

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  8. Honeychrome

    Honeychrome Junior Member

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    Geodesic Blues

    Yeah, reading 'the blues' is both funny and depressing, particularly if you like the idea, at least aesthetically as I did, of geodesic domes. I try and make it a habit of seeking out and reading every negative or critical thing I can find on an idea or subject that I get interested in or enthusiastic about. If in the end I'm still enthusiastic I have a more realistic understanding of the idea/concept as well as an arsenal of responses to questions from critics (because I've heard the criticisms before!) as I try and get others enthusiastic about the idea/concept! Alas, with the dome idea the critiques beat the enthusiasm out of me, and rightfully so I think. Which isn't to say that there are no appropriate applications for geodesic domes- I'm certain that there are.
    Tom
     
  9. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    Tom, You're absolutely right.
    And the other thought lurking in my head is that the reason I am looking at straw bale is that it is [supposed] to be cost-effective (with the plus-plus-plus) of environment and aesthetics... I don't have much money – hardly any, so venturing down a geodesic moneypit- trail is probably very stupid... bugger.

    Maybe “later” I can have one as a potting shed or greenhouse or chook shed or something that can be a leaky “folly”, rather than my main lounge/living room (which really shouldnt be leaky).!
     
  10. jackie

    jackie Junior Member

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    geo desic design

    Haven't looked into this type of design but can give you a few design thoughts from our journey. Went throught the straw bale idea to the post and beam mud brick and arrived a north facing double recycled brick home. Reasons:
    Straw bale is a great insulator, could probalby heat it with a candle, windows negate the insulation though. So then you have thick walls costing more for the slab and roof, but you can do it yourself.
    Mud brick is great if you have time and suitable soil. We had a baby and wanted a builder to build for us.
    Double brick with cavity, recycled materials all 40 000 bricks of them, 11 hour time delay of heat transfer through the wall: cool of night coming though in day and heat of day at night, with passive solar large windows on north side and tiled concete slab in apropriate locations works beautfully. holds 19 deg in winter and about 21 in summer. Terrible after 3-4 hot days as it takes a while to cool down but don't have too much of this south of melboune.

    Things I've learnt that you could apply to your dome:
    *Solid floor, earth, tile, concrete to absorb north sun.
    *should have listened to husband and had concrete bench tops due to them being on north wall, timber looks good but not a heat sink.
    * Have a feature wall where the sun shines in, brick, mud brick, bottles filled with water something to hold the warmth and radiate it later in the day.
    * heat transfer pump and ducts. Eg those foil ducts from central heating with a fan in line to move warm air around our north side is beautiful but the south bedrooms cold.
    *If I could have afforded it hydronic heating of wood stove. they joys of money hey.
    *We regret having all pipes down in the slab to the septic as it makes diverting grey water impossible without bucketing it out of the bath etc.

    We all have our dream home, I always wanted to relovate and old church so built a home resembling one. Feel lucky but them we all create our own luck. Good luck with your dream.
    Love jackie
     
  11. Honeychrome

    Honeychrome Junior Member

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    Jackie- good points to apply to ANY new design and/or building! I think we all beat ourselves up a bit on trying to come up with the ultimate, perfect design, but it's all really part of an evolutionary process. We will always make mistakes and try hairbrained ideas that fail; the key is to do our best not to make mistakes that have already been made (and documented). Live and learn, and most importantly pass along what we've learned to those coming up behind us. And we have to keep in mind that everything will be a compromise or one kind or another- and in fact maybe that's the 'art' of it all: dealing with the compromises.
     
  12. dewbee

    dewbee Junior Member

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    home building...

    does anyone remember the publications of "Shelter" magazine in the late seventies and early eighties??? i was looking for them on the web a while ago and they are difficult to find... there were some excellent ideas in there... i wish someone would free internet publish them for the good of society!! There were a few hanging around in a house i used to rent a couple of years ago now... good reading and worth trying to find... also this designer won an architectural prize for his ideas: https://www.calearth.org/cvillage/cvillage.htm

    definately worth a look, probably not as expensive as geodesic domes, but probably the same rendering challenge, no leaks though!!

    also a seventies artist i ran accross has done this:
    https://www.rogerdean.com/architecture/index.htm

    which is also worth a look....


    good luck, i hope this helps.
     
  13. RobWindt

    RobWindt Junior Member

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  14. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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  15. Honeychrome

    Honeychrome Junior Member

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    Wow, Roger Dean is a real 'blast from the past!' Interesting architecture- very 'cob,' though I suspect it's cement & concrete.

    A couple of years ago Lloyd Khan (I think that's who it is), who published Shelter and Shelter II in the 70s, put out a followup called Home Work. I've been looking for it at used bookstores without success- but just yesterday saw it new in a new/used shop so spent some time flipping through it. Very interesting and inspirational (as are the two earlier books), with better photos, etc.
     
  16. dewbee

    dewbee Junior Member

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    shelter

    >>>>>>just yesterday saw it new in a new/used shop so spent some time flipping through it>>>>

    how do you go abaout getting permission to publish these things over the internet??
     
  17. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    You have to get permission from the person who owns the copyright, or wait until the copyright expires.
     
  18. dewbee

    dewbee Junior Member

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    thanks

    that renascent rat page is inspiring, thankyou.
     
  19. sethpogue

    sethpogue New Member

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    :lol:
    End to the domebuilder's blues:
    How about a 13 meter diameter dome made of shotcrete and polyurethane foam, R-50, withstands 10+ earthquake, 300 mph winds, tsunami etc, lasts for centuries, never leaks, goes up in 2 weeks for $21,000 USD labor and materials including doors, windows, plumbing, wiring, in-floor heating?

    It's for real. https://www.monolithic.com
    Blessings,
    Seth
     
  20. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Hahahaha, those domes look really great! Practically indestructible! I would love one, but the need to keep positive presssure in the form for two weeks means three generators, one running at all times of the day, and two back ups. That, and the price... but aside from those minor problems for me, I can see that the benefits of such a home are many.
     

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