Milking Rabbits!!

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by ho-hum, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is a post of mine that has been in my archives for ages but still has relevancy.


    No, of course you cannot milk rabbits but permaculture is all about using
    one's resources wisely. Consider land availability, grazing sustainability,
    equipment required, level of expertise, commitment required to see this
    through, time availability, slave labour availability[wife/husband]. Do you
    wish to supply your milk needs as a means to sustainibility, a whim or
    fancy. Do the sums, is it really cheaper? I am not into lists at all but I
    would weigh up all pros and cons before going further. You really do have to
    make preparations before you start. Do you know how many buckets of milk a fridge can hold? Will your family still drink a gallon of milk a day if it doesnt come out of a pretty container?

    Milking anything from horses down to sheep requires an abundance of
    commitment. My point about the rabbits was that you may be well served to swap milk for something you can produce well. Anyone who has owned a 'milker' knows that supply & demand never seem to coincide.


    Here are my thoughts and strategies.


    Firstly decide on how much milk you can handle. A well maintained lactating Fresian can literally produce tons of milk in a year. Even a well maintained Saanen can oversupply an average family.


    Secondly, decide on a strategy for the excess. Feed offspring, make cheese, giveaway. I am a bit reluctant on the giveaway strategy because not a lot of people can, or want, to handle fresh milk. If you are going to pasturize it and bottle it for them, you may wish to consider a career in the dairy industry.


    Cow:


    Whilst cows in themselves are not inherently dangerous. They can be silly
    when they come on season. You need to get them to a bull or a vet or vice versa. Mostly, they carry on a treat when a stranger tries to milk them meaning a real reduction in lifestyle. It is very hard for smallholders to find someone else to milk if they want a break or a holiday, especially with experience. Cows can object violently to strangers playing with their
    'privates'.. Anyone with housecow experience either owns one currently or wont admit it because they know the effort involved. There is a simple
    answer... leave the calf 'on'. This does work fine but any break in a
    housecow's routine is not welcomed. I actually find second mortgages less daunting than doing the housecow thing. In my experience cows need fences,ramps, hay, vets, bulls and large areas. I would consider owning a housecow but I would have a pig too. Or better still, I would own a half cow.


    Half cow:
    One of the disadvantages of a house cow is simply volume of milk but there is a strategy round this. I once worked for a farmer who milked an
    angus/hereford cross For those new to cows this cross has dual purpose
    ability but is essentially a beef cow. I was amused at this but he had
    logic. He commented that she didnt produce too much milk and the calf was more use to him on the table than her milk was. I milked that cow for 3 months. The farmer was an ex-dairy farmer so he did know his stuff. I also helped him break in a Murray Grey X[an aussie beef breed] as a milker, he said it didnt seem any harder than breaking in a 'dairy' cow.


    Half a cow:


    Share one, preferably all you do is pay half of purchase price, all of feed
    and vet bills and then go daily and collect your milk. You can also strike
    up an agreement and have milk supplied. Cash is good, but it may be illegal in your area. Try offering the some rabbits...:)


    Goats:


    I prefer cows milk but goats to milk. Goats due to their size are a lot
    easier to handle. They happily hop up onto an outside table so you can sit
    down to milk. Goats like a routine but are much more maleable than cows. Goats take to strangers more easily too. I have milked only 2 goats but
    through multiple lactations. One a Saanen which produced a bucket a day and the other was a bush goat. She produced about 4 litres a day and fed her kid. This kept her kid and my kids quiet and left some over to play round making cheese. I used to keep a box of UHT milk in the cupboard in case we got squeamish visitors. Goats milk is different to cows milk even in a cup of tea. Goats are also very good for small holdings and suburban areas. My last goat survived nicely being moved daily round the 1.5 acres I use of my property. When she was lactating and feeding a baby, I did supplement feed her though. Please dont tie your goat under a frangipani tree though, [goats love the leaves fresh or dried] and expect the milk not to taste weird.


    Your choice of goat/cow should have been thoughtfully considered by now and if you are not disenheartened think forward to the morning when you are trying to go out and the goat is bouncing round the yard. Heard of mastitis?
    Ever had a cow slap you in the face with a tail loaded especially with a
    great gob of shit? Then, stepped in the bucket? Ever wished you had one of those heavy steel buckets so you could belt the cow round the head with it?
    Ever been ill and tired and trying to milk? Ever had a cow bellowing over
    the fence at you waiting to be milked? Ever heard the racket an animal going through birth can make?


    Hopefully I havent put you all off entirely. Owning a cow and goat can be
    really rewarding and it is one of those painful tasks that become easier and more rewarding with time. Eventually you and whatever you're milking become genuinely close, both being able to sense the other ones current state of mind. Once you are at that stage then milk this way is very rewarding and cheap. It just takes a bit of planning and forethought. Consider a half cow or half a cow. Borrow a goat if you know someone who has a few.


    It's an especially nice moment when you produce a lovely cheese. It is an
    especially smug moment when you stand calmly next to your housecow's newborn calf while your normally peaceful housecow chases the dog and the vet all over the field trying to kill them. Aaaaaahhhh the joys of milking.


    And as for milking rabbits, they dont have teats and my hands wouldnt fit
    under them!!


    Floot
     
  2. naturally inspired

    naturally inspired Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    very nice post floot.

    I absolutely LOVE cows. but im not very sure im up to the rigours of milking etc. Ive never even tried fresh milk before!!! but cows are just so gorgeous. but then again i like most animals! (permaculture menagerie here I come!) I like goats too but once again ive never tried goats milk (not very adventurous am I). I do like goat cheese though.

    I like your idea of the half cow. I have always loved many of the "beef" breeds and wondered if you could use them for milk too. I especially love the Murray grey and the Black angus. sooo cute. we had a murray grey at school, she was such a beautiful cow, unfortunately she had to be put down after a bunch of lost young souls broke into the school and bashed her with a crowbar.

    I guess there is a heap of things to think about if you want to have a milk cow. I'd just be happy to have a cow for companionship :)

    for me though, my first love (animal wise) is always going to be horses. lol. Im such a girly girl sometimes.
     
  3. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    it sure isn't as easy as you would think it should be, that is for sure :lol:
     
  4. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would have hoped we had more hands-on anecdotes for this thread so it can be moved on the wiki.


    Richard, do you ever milk your goats?


    mike
     
  5. permaculture.biz

    permaculture.biz Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    https://cli.re/RWPlace
    Location:
    https://cli.re/RWPlace
    Home Page:
    Climate:
    Global
    G'day,

    On our farm we only ever ran angus/hereford crosses and we milked them for the exact reason that you mentioned. The milk products were used at the household level, though limited due to the breed used, and our family would have a familial processing of a "beast" every couple of months with a sheep every fortnight. We would all take part, with grandad (and latterly me) doing the killing, uncles doing the dressing, cousins ferrying the various entrails inside to the aunties, and the little cousins swatting flies from the hung carcass until dark with "Chinese Scrub" (Cassia arcuata). Next day grandad and i (at about 5am - much to my chagrin) would then butcher the carcass and then over the next few days everyone would come and get thier bits. Then grandad and I would make soap from the fat stored (with caustic soda), which we still have going some ten years later we made that much. Really any wonder I got into this caper! Thanks for revising my memory of these very fine times.

    Ciao,

    Daz
     
  6. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We tried to milk those goats and they just didn't want to give us any. :cry:
    We are going to try to raise Kauai, the cutest female kid up to be more comfortable with us so that when she is ready to be a milker, well maybe we'll have better luck and better milk in our latte's... :D
    Today actually we did a swap with our neighbours; they took one of the ornery mothers in return for a pig (we are going to pick up the pig in a few weeks) a pair of pet turtles for Lichen, our 2 year old daughter and a big rack of bananas. We didn't actually ask for the turtles, and we have three bunches of bananas hanging already, but there you go. I love our neighbourhood some days. :D
     
  7. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    we bought our first goat this time last year - a British alpine goatling apty named Hope. We knew very little about goats - I had a couple about 20 years ago but didnt get arround to milking them. We chose British Alpines because they still can be "millked through" without needing to kid every year - and we are still concerned about how to cope with the excess kid problem - we just cant eat anyone we know !!!!

    we had really wanted an older doe that had been milked before because as I said to the breeder, it was better if one of us had milked before :lol: :lol: but as she predicted it turned out fine ! hubby (who has to do the milking because I am disabled) had a quick lesson when we went to pick up Hope and by then the 2 kids !

    we are retired ex horse people and find goats just so easy to handle and generally get on with ! and they are so entertaining to watch !

    Hope didnt give much milk at first and now in hindsite we think it was the result of changing homes right at kidding - plus having only 1 doe meant she spent her nights alone ........we also had constant problems with her having sloppy poo and could not feed her much concentrate ...... during those first 7 months we only averaged about 600 ml a day ....... that was feeding the kids through the day and being locked up each night then milked in the morning .......

    In april we got a second doe named Folly - she is in her second lactation and has achieved her Q rating ....... before we got her she was giving 3 litres a day from twice daily milking - we cut her back to once daily - and she settled to giving about 1500 ml

    we also weaned Hope and were surprised that her yield of milk did not change at first - but her digestive problems disappeared almost overnight - and we now think it was mainly the stress of being alone -
    Goats need company !

    we were able to increased her feed and she slowly increased her milk production to now averaging about a litre a day ......the other doe had a period where her production went right down and that seemed to coincide with the cold weather ............ so now we shut them in their shed at night and she w3nt back up to arround 1.5 litres ........ in the last week they have both increased their productyion again due to what is called the spring flush ....... we now get about 3 litres a day from them !

    we make kefir ( for us, the chooks and even the dog ) soft cheese , butter , ice cream and yogurt feed milk to chooks and ducks and still have a milk glut :lol: since my post here we have now started using the excess as a compost activator

    as already said goats love routine ....... Hope is milked first so at milking time she is waiting impatiently at the gate ( folly uually is laying down pretendingy not to notice ) hubby just opens the gate and Hope still free, runs out ad waits at the side door of the shed for him to open it - when he does so she rus into the shed and jumps up on the milking stand ..... he then just walks over and clip her collar to a snap clip then milks her - we do always feed them while milking

    when Hope is finsihed he finds Folly waiting at the gate and she also walks in free and jumps onto the stand

    the girls never shit in the milking shed and goats cant really kick unlike a cow ....... we have only had one disaster when Hope stamped her foot at a biting fly and it finished up in the milk pail

    they ALL come whe called to their individual name ! all my horses have always come when called but if I called one they all came ! if I call hope she answers then comes - same with both her kids 8) Folly is a bit more aloof but she isnt quite settled in with us yet and was older when we got her ! she spent 3 years and 2 kiddings with her breeders so really it is a big shock to move homes .........and she has in some ways adapted very
    well

    one thing we have realised is keep the kids on mum as long as possible ! being tied to having to milk every day is a pain ! and we are stuck with it for another 12 months ! we live 120 km from perth and have to travel to Perth to buy what organic veggies we cant grow our selves ......... it is a long hard day with milking as well !

    but other than that we think goats are wonderful 8)

    frosty
     
  8. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Frosty,

    Wonderful reply. This forum is all about how WE did it, without disregard to why we did it.


    Thank-you

    PS your goat experience sounds about normal.. ''no idea-3 weeks later' we are experts. They really are forgiving animals that seem to thrive on human contact [and a bit of food].

    mike
     
  9. arawajo

    arawajo Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Milking

    This is a good thread - very helpful and realistic.

    I will have to think hard about milking the cow - I'm a shift worker and that adds to the difficulties.

    We intend to gradually eat our Dexter herd and then after a break we will probably move to goats in our retirement years. Martin has had goats before. They are easier to milk, butcher, feed, handle etc than cattle. We have the right fencing to contain them as well.

    I have one nanny goat at present - took her because friends moved to Tassie. She is so sweet but I haven't thought about putting her with a male. Perhaps I should. She is a big white goat.
     
  10. Muddy

    Muddy Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have milked both cows and goats and both have advantages and problems. Originally I milked a cow every morning around 4.30am ( I leave for work at 5.30am). This was OK as my kids were young and drank a lot of fresh cows milk. I made butter and fed the pigs on the remainder. The problems here were lack of sleep (I usually finish work around midnight) and the pigs had about 3 inches of fat over them.
    Next I offered a local milker to milk his cow whenever he needed a break or had to go away for a few days. Problem was I would have milk sometimes every day and then none for weeks at a time.
    Now I keep a herd of goats and milk whenever I want. I much prefer the taste of goats milk and have had no trouble raising my grand daughter on it.
    For people new to milking or having trouble the secret is to coat your hands and the teats with vasoline first then squirt milk on your hands and away you go. Gets a bit tricky explaining the jar of vasoline in the milking shed though especially as I am ex Kiwi.
     
  11. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Muddy,

    Never heard of the vaseline idea before. It would be a great way to stop odd hair etc falling into the milk and also stop teats from cracking. The pre-milking stimulation would assist the letdown of milk too.

    I will try that next time.

    floot
     
  12. Terra

    Terra Moderator

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hello to every one
    I am new here
    Goats are fabulous animals , milking cows are good too but more of a commitment both with actual milking and finding a use for large quantities of milk . I am 46 years old and have assisted and or totally cared for both goats and cows all my life . We have had a two year break from our goats due to a huge bush fire wipeing out all fencing and infastucture , and the huge job of rebuilding has kept us busy , we gave our goats away but am thinking we could get some again .
    A couple of thoughts not covered in the discussion are goats are pretty good at escapeing so good fences are required , have had many amuseing times when ive caught them out of thier paddock they know they have done wrong and dutifully trot home.
    The main problem with running goats is the need for a BILLY GOAT they are ghastly setups , ours have all been hand reared and VERY friendly and at times of the year thier smell must be experienced to be believed.
    :shock: so access to a loan Billy is almost a must have .

    Terra
     
  13. Tas'

    Tas' Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Floot,

    I tried PMing you with this question, but didn't get a reply so I am trying here.

    I showed your post about milking rabbits to someone on another list and they were very impressed with it and wanted to know if they could have permission to:

    "use it to print in my newsletter or to otherwise use it teach and
    distribute. I would give the writer credit for it, but think its tops and a subject
    that chapeter leaders (Weston A Price Foundation) like myself who have no previous farming background could use to explain to other these complex issues."
     
  14. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Milking Rabbits!!

    Tas'

    I dunno what happened to the PM but I did find my article posted on another forum. [onabusu and a dexter forum] I am happy for this to be used by others as a teaching aid as long as their is acknowledgement made to either myself or this forum. It has been reproduced in Ireland and Germany. No real hard information in it just a thought provoking light hearted article.

    I am not familiar with the forum's copyright rules.

    If you are having trouble with a cow letting her milk down, spend an extra minute or so washing down her udder and then try lifting her udder a couple of times and dropping it during the washing process. Imagine you are trying to juggle a dozen spuds in the bottom of a sack and rearranging them.

    Cheers,
     
  15. Tas'

    Tas' Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Milking Rabbits!!

    Huh??? What??? Oh that.... That was ages ago. I did eventually get to talk to you about it by email. I think you said at the time that you didn't want your name mentioned. I can only find it on Onibasu from the DiscussingNT group, and have only used it as a 'teaching aid' to people who are genuinely interested in the pros and cons of what animal to get to supply their own milk. I have never claimed that I wrote the piece.
     

Share This Page

-->