Northey Street Farm

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by barely run, Mar 10, 2006.

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  1. barely run

    barely run Junior Member

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    Visited this community farm in Brisbane 3 times over last few weeks while here in Brisbane. 2 visits to look about.. visit the nursery and once for the tour.
    It was in many ways a disappointment....there is much to see but it all looked to me overgrown and poorly maintained....and no I wasn't looking for neat garden beds.
    There was little interest from those present to interact with visitors and the pleasant man who did the tour knew very little about the plants being grown...every question was answered by "Oh Jo Blogs is the expert on that"....There were several others on the tour all of whom asked questions as well. He mentioned several times about the lack of volunteers at present.
    My last visit was with a local friend...long time organic grower but had never heard of the farm. She was interested in being a volunteer so out we went for a visit.....there about an hour but again little enthusiam from those present to encourage a new member....very casual "Just turn up and you'll find something to do"....no suggestion of taking phone number for follow up or anything else.
    This site provides much more information, encouragement and empathy so keep up the good work all....
    My last winge is about the toilet.....YUKKY !!!!
    It was the first compost toilet I had used other than those at rest stops.
    It smelled exactly like the outside toilets of my childhood....but no sawdust.....There is no way you could tolerate the smell in a house but they are advertised as odour free !!!!.....
    :? Don't usually post negative things but I had heard such good reports about Northey Street...and had hoped a visit would impress my husband with the values of permaculture....there were some practicle ideas he liked but even he commented on the lack of interest in visitors from the people involved with the place....on this site, which he pops into occasionally to check I'm not into anything "too strange" he often has a laugh about some stuff and other posts have sent him off on a search for more info..eg: biodiesel
    Cheers
    Cathy :oops:
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day cathy,

    i ahve been there on one occassion to take part in a herb growing oldies thing sponsered by the brissy city council.

    to me it wasn't ordered enough if they hope to be a working city garden where interested locals can come and help to grow and benefit from the harvest of chemical free vege's and fruit.

    it was all higeldy pigeldy when i saw it and seemed more like a shady nook for 'how can i say it without offending' oh righto here goes 'for drop in's with nowhere else to go.'

    no composting toilets should not smell, we had one on the property we just sold and amazed many as to the fact that they just don't reek of odour like the local gov' run roadside ones do (they give composting toilets a bad bad name).

    anyhow back to N.S to some degreee it migh be lost in the implementing of design other than simply getting on with the task at hand.

    i have seen doco's of community gardens down melbourne way where the tenants in council owned flats all get together on a patch of ground with their allocated spots (as there are many ethnics involved they grow their own types of foods) and when comes harvest times they swap what they don't want for something someone else doesn't want or has too much of.

    this is in fact bringing a community living in very high density housing together as friends or good neighbours.

    anyhow my 2 bits worth, but hey go for the composting loo at your place adn go for the simplest design with the best versatility.

    len :D
     
  3. Mozzie

    Mozzie Junior Member

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    and

    I love the fact that you both found it disordered. It's obvious you have no concept of permaculture design.
    I love that you have complained about the people and have misunderstood the premise for the farm in the first place. It's obvious you relied on first impressions and did not bother to investigate your queries further.

    I love the fact that you have deemed to engage in demeaning slurs suggesting that the farm is for "drop ins with nowhere else to go". This tells me you are also ignorant of permaculture principles.

    With these ideas, it means that the two of you will stay well away from Northey Street Farm.

    And I love that I am utterly delighted with that.
     
  4. hedwig

    hedwig Junior Member

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    Mozzie, you should take the complaints a bit serious. Two people coming wanted to offer their work should not be treated like that! Open critics is helpflul and it is much easier scope with open critics than with people who just stay away! (They seem to stay away like the guide of Cathy said).
    The fact is that the people are volunteers, mostly without own garden I suppose, and it is difficult getting volunteers who know a lot about gardening. I yet bought some trees there (the quality ...) there were very friendly people, indeed but not very informed. The site is not very intenively planted at the moment.
     
  5. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    I must admit that I also found Northey Street a bit of a dissappointment. I think it is a bit rich to suggest that the guys who are critical of NS simply have no understanding of permaculture. Len in particular has much experience in these things and much to offer.

    I think that a space that big in such a highly populated area is invaluable in educating the wider community in priciples of permaculture. I too found that the lack of organisation at NS appeared not to assist in this cause.
     
  6. permanut

    permanut Junior Member

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    Hey you guys who feel they have to say negative things about our beloved Northey St need to improve their observational skills.
    Okay so we have a bit of problem at present with the composting toilets.This is mostly due to the large amount of community and volunteers coming through that have no problem taking initative, organising and volunteering themselves without a royal welcome.The toilets smell because too much urine in the system is make conditions anerobic.All volunteers, students, etc. know its best to pee on a tree discreetly (we have lots of healthy trees). So the smell is caused by the wider community at large, over peeing in the toilet.
    I am currently studying/volunteering at Northy St. One of my design projects will be the toilets.I'm down there all day wed/thu and would be happy to give you a royal welcome if you have a positive contribution to make.
    Us that live on edge love our NSF, dont be dissin us.
     
  7. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    northey street

    Wow. I live in NSW and have Northey Street on my “MUST_MUST_MUST SEE” list when next I am in Brizzy. But the responses on to this are an eye-opener. I know it is hard to be positive in the face of criticism, BUT... such a nasty hostile response... does you (collectively) no credit ....
    I have never met Cathy, only interacted with her on this board, and I know she (like me) is trying to learn all she can about permaculture. She already knows quite a lot. I am sure she would have gone to NS with a real open mind, and as her post says, she went there are few times recently, so the criticism is not based on a one-off snap judgement.
    The thing is, there are probably lots of people, both permies and general public, who have gone to NS and left with the same impression, but have not had a forum or the inclination to provide any feedback.
    If you snap and snarl at the general public the way you do to what are your permaculture colleague on this forum.... what a shame! You come across, based on the posts here, as a nasty defensive lot. What a lost opportunity.
     
  8. derekh

    derekh Junior Member

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    I have visited N.S. on several occaisions and actually thought the disorder added to the atmosphere of the place.

    The first time was part of a Sustainable Horticulture course I did through Grovely TAFE with Annette McFarlane as our teacher and I have since been back for the Saturday Organic Markets.

    I absolutely adore the open kitchen and cob oven. If I build on my western property, it will be the model for my design. I also liked the sample backyard, the compost wheels and worm farm. There is some great innovation and improvisation demonstrated there.

    When I visited Melbourne last year I visited CERES and the St Kilda community garden. I thought parts of CERES were neglected but that didn't detract from the experience and each one I visit contributes to my (limited) understanding of permaculture.

    Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by what I see and read. By that I mean, I am hesitant to start on my own place for fear of getting it wrong or there are too many options and I don't know which direction to take. This is an issue I need to deal with (in more ways than one).

    Anyway, my 2c worth.

    derek
     
  9. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    I worked at Northey St for about six months as a paid dole bludger, and I lived nearby for another six months and enjoyed being part of the local community, helping out in minimal ways when I had time and harvesting the occaisional stray peanut butter fruit...
    I love that little farm, for its potential, as much for the reality on the ground. But what is on the ground is pretty impressive actually, if you know what you are looking at. There are many, many useful species in the ground (I hope most of them are them are doing well...) and a lot of people have participated in workshops and courses and have been exposed to a lot of good ideas; a lot knowlege and skills have been shared... And there have been some great parties there too!
    I suppose that any community organisation gets a lot of its strength and weakness from the fact that it is owned by the community...
    I have had similar experiences as those Cathy and Len pointed out, not just at Northey St, (actually I was fairly warmly welcomed at Northey St, but the first three times I visited the site I met not a single human being) but other City Farms and community gardens too, as well as community radio stations and Friends of the Library groups, local landcare groups, you name it... I think it is a symptom of our society's lack of community ethics, actually. We just aren't that good at forming effective working groups because we are so used hierarchachal relationships and only doing stuff if there is a buck at the end of it...
    At the end of the day, I think that if you are dissappointed by the quality of your local community garden, the only thing for it is to get involved and make it better!
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    thanks veggie bopy, cathy and others,

    if i missed your name it is because i have barely glanced at all post since my response to cathy.

    what i said i said in an objective manner, ok all of us for the main who are into organic, permaculture, sustainable and ecological practises and thought patterns are already different, so we are here for the same reason and probably started at almost identical places in out time spans. and as it will be with any change in culture process the person must begin to think and see by themselves that they may not be doing it quiet right as for looking after the planet in their little patch. i try to always let my deeds talk for me i am like the most of us are already different because we see the need, but i do not ascribe to being seen to be different if you get what i mean.

    if permaculture and sustainable living in home design and practise are going to be carte-blanche then we need to encourage those in the main stream, or this will just be another nimbin stage. lots of main stream people are locked into career paths and job driven lifestyles so they need to present in what is a somewhat dictated appearance & manner, and they then do not look to others outside that spectrum for any guidance. for me i don't care how any one presents in appearance but if you want to find out what the main stream thinks go ask them. and if these practises don't become main stream then they remain individual feel good processes doing little for the benfit of the whole planet that we all live on.

    to me n/s should be showing folk that a community can share space and produce valuable food for that community, now the best way to get the community involved (and around n/s i expect they are all older folk set in their ways and modes of dress), so waht i saw wasn't and didn't look like it would ever feed me and my family let alone families. too much time can be wasted in the discussion of for sale pdc instead of getting on with the task at hand, and that is encouraging the immidiate neighbourhood to come together. so in every day attire go sell the repoduce to them from the farm.

    if the composting toilet is a problem due to main stream visitors???? then i say the problem lies in the toilet get the council to fit a sewerage tolet for now as well then educate folk to better other ways of dealing with human waste. forget the man made designs keep it in the K.I.S.S theme, then introduce otehr stuff get folk thinking for themselves that things can be done better, like and alcoholic can't get help unilt they admit they need help it si the same with treating the planet properly or our climate will simply just keep getting worse.

    and if anyone has delusions that permaculture is working in the broad spectrum out in the greater community just come look at some of these yardless treeless subburbs just to the norht of brissy. how can people recycle their ordinary waste if there isn't enough yards for kids to play in let alone enough yard to grow some bird friendly trees one of the big pluses in bug control in organic gardens/permaculture. no room for kids and definatley none for habitat so permaculture just won't fit, and all you end up with is a suburb full of individual families in their boxes made of ticky tacky (remember the song from the late 60's early 70's?).

    n/s is situated on a prime piece of real estate right near the main hospital in brissy i would guess (and i don't know for sure) but i would guess that the brissy people subsidise the community use of that spot through their rates and at the behest of the brissy council. that same council would frown on an individual rate payer installing a composting toilet not only frown last i knew they simply wouldn't sanction it, they are only just of recent times allowing people to have rain water tanks and use grey water so n/s has some flexibilities that those around them don't.

    yes lets be different we are if i may say it like that but we won't encourage if we are seen to be different. just how i see it sorry if some take umberance to it. so maybe put the design on the back burner for now and start from basics?

    len
     
  11. Mozzie

    Mozzie Junior Member

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    I didn't point this out in my last post but I wish to add that I am not on staff at Northey Street Farm but a community member who has bothered to push through what might appear to be negative first impressions and delve more deeply into the organisation rather than just sit idly by and trash it. Hedwig, I'm deadly serious which is why I'm royally peeved. These people didn't come in and volunteer; they came in, waffled about, cast their judgement and then flung their muck in here, probably because they thought they'd be able to do so unchallenged. Len assumes the composting toilet by the toolshed is the one designated for public use (if you read the sign you can see it's not), assumes that NSF can summon the Council to install sewerage facilities (and assumes that the land sits on a sewerage grid). He then assumes that NSF is not showing the community how to share space and grow food or that they are educating people about waste (integral part of the workshops and PDC, especially so as compositing toilets for residential plots are illegal in Brisbane). Solution? Turn up on Wednesdays and Thursdays when the certificate course is in full swing and get one of the people there to point out where Len is so obviously, and painfully, wrong.

    Look, I'm not averse to criticism. I'll be the first to put my hand up and say why yes, of course there's room for improvement. For example, there was no invitation put out to volunteers regarding the recent Site Design Committee which I found disappointing and the coffee shop needs a good kick up the kyber. There may be a few individuals who feel they have a stake in the place but, like everywhere, you get that. (Some people don't have much in their lives so what can you do?). But again, it's up to me to find out when the next meeting is so that I can attend it and to forward any suggestions for improvement to other members. No bitching or moaning, just further investigation and eventual satisfaction.

    VeggieBoy, the area is listed as a flood plain and was rezoned in the eighties so houses cannot be built upon it. Contrary to Len's comments, it is not prime real estate although its sheer size would suggest this to the uneducated eye. In addition, is subject to regular ad hoc entry by the public and there isn't a week goes by that a chook or an implement doesn't go missing. From what I know of the arrangement with the NSF and the Brisbane City Council, there are certain requirements and restrictions so there are limitations as to what NSF can and is not allowed to do. Again, contrary to what some would believe, the NSF is not subsidised by ratepayers but receives its funding from Federal and State Government grants as well as membership fees. It is valuable community resource and, having travelled as I have, it's a very rare one. I have no doubt that one day in years to come that the land will be rezoned and sold off again. Therefore, in the meantime, I count the blessings that are present and enjoy it as is.

    Not all dolies are bludgers. We have one vollie recovering from cancer, a few who have disabilities, people who work part-time and are carers, students, elderly people - all recipients of benefits. These people can sit on their arses at home and are quite justified in doing it but they don't, they come in and they contribute.

    While I agree with Richard's observation regarding community ethics, I would also put forward that there's a lack of a communication and leadership skills base too in the community organisation arena. Democratic processes tend to fall by the wayside and often it becomes a case of "who does the most" or "who's been here the longest" and that often does not work both from a skills base and group dynamic perspective because not only do you get an imbalance of work input, you also get the propensity for people to harbour resentment, bitch and moan and the follow on effect is found in the resulting attitude and "pecking order" of the group.

    My initial comments pertaining to lack of knowledge about permaculture stand. As Richard points out, you have to know what you're looking for and the comments clearly illustrated that neither commentator did. Now, looking at further comment regarding Nimbin and mainstream...well that just yells "redneck!" to me. Rather than just wander in and wander over here to this forum to report your immense dissatisfaction, I'm amazed neither individual thought to engage in further interraction with the Farm. You might not catch sight of a human being but there's a phone number to call or an email to write to. All my queries were answered. I don't see why others wouldn't be. Happily, the majority of people coming to volunteer their labour on the farm and make up the fabric of the NSF community agree.
     
  12. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    northey street

    What follows is copied and pasted from the the Northey Street website bulletin board: Obviously Cathy's criticism is not an isolated experience.....


    Notice Board
    All pages for

    All replies to this thread appear below and on subsequent pages.




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    1. Subject:Volunteers get involved! Yeah right...
    Author:Anonymous Times viewed:115 Posted:06 Feb 2006 10:11
    Two months down the track and still no joy with volunteering.

    Does the phone actually work? Do people actually receive phone messages? Are volunteers really welcome? One minute, I get told such and such a person is running the farm so you have to speak to them, then I get told this person is and then I get told oh it's a co-operative so everyone's running it. I'm starting to get the impression that it's actually a privately run enterprise!!!!

    Sorry, a bit disgruntled here...rrrrr.
    Reply



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  13. hedwig

    hedwig Junior Member

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    I don't know how NS is organized. But I think it's hard to get really long-years experienced gardeners. They have normally their own garden and don't engage in the same thing once more. The site in NS is quite huge and evrything working with volunteers a big job, perhaps too big.
     
  14. Mozzie

    Mozzie Junior Member

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    Is that the best you can do, Heuristics?

    :lol:

    Hed, NSF is a non-incorporated not-for-profit community organisation. It is run via its membership, of which there is a management committee and participation from members is welcome. NSF volunteers come from all walks of life with most having gardens of their own as well. (Somehow this "community" ethos isn't sinking in on this thread....) As with most community organisations, a lot of the work is unpaid and spent on the land, not waiting by the phone on hand and foot for someone with nothing better to do with their time than complain about not being immediately catered to. We're a community, not slaves.
     
  15. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    northey street

    Well, isnt the question - is this the best YOU can do?
    Similar criticisms coming from numerous sources - including the NS own website - all treated with comtempt, it would seem.

    Maybe if there was more emphasis on the second ethic - "care of people" there would be more volunteers and more people wanting to contribute and then the "burden" of dealing with the public would be eased.

    Given the exchanges on this post I can imagine that lots of people who would possibly want to get involved would run a mile. No wonder there is a shortage of volunteers!
     
  16. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Heuristics is right, Re: "Given the exchanges on this post I can imagine that lots of people who would possibly want to get involved would run a mile. No wonder there is a shortage of volunteers!"

    I have been toying with going along and checking out NS, Aggressive reaction from Mozzie sort of puts me off really, not what the others have said as that sort of feed back does not bother me, Aggressive protective people bother me, there's no aggression in my garden, Len and Cathy are always welcome here as they are both wonderful down to earth green thumbed people like myself.

    Mozzie have your say by all means but have a relaxing cup of tea before posting next. :lol:
     
  17. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    thnaks baz,

    and i'm sure cathy and many others as well we would also welcome all to our gardens, and i enjoy immensly interacting in real time with fellow like gardeners.

    just that when folk get defensive they get very subjective and that is where all good constructive critisism grinds to a halt. i just can't see how we can even get the masses to look our way let alone be able to encourage them to change their thought patterns for the benefit of all of us inhabitants on the planet at the current going rate.

    just realy can't see permaculture or even organics or conservation getting a toe in at this stage.

    and yes the rate payers do subsidise that land it is ratable land and there is a very large and often crowded car park next door so the folk of brisbane who we haven't encouraged may want better things done in these tight financial times (just stating a fact not a desire).

    if i lived closer i too would come along but from what has been written i might not be afforded the opportunity to stay or return and i'm not into inquisitions.

    i still say lets start appealing to the broader community and Keep It Simple Stupid or Silly or Sweety :shock: whatever may or may not ascribe to the reader.

    len :D 8) :lol:
     
  18. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Well, obviously Mozzie has gotten his/her back up because they care very much for the project that is Northey St City Farm... but uh, can I suggest that we all take deep breaths and step back and remember that we are all on the same side, we're all in this together.
     
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