Japan's sustainable society in the Edo period (1603-1867)

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Jez, Feb 21, 2006.

  1. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Article which is relevant to several things being discussed here ATM...

    Japan's sustainable society in the Edo period (1603-1867)

     
  2. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    Thank you for sharing.

    You know what I found the nicest in the above quote Jez - that the Japanese see the value in a stable population. That is a far cry from our cleaseless drive for growth. Quality over quantity.

    Thanks,
    Fran.
     
  3. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    You just didn't want to be a person who lived on the land, as in a farmer, they were treated pretty badly and were one of the lowest casts.
     
  4. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Fran,

    I don't know if the Japanese set out to have a stable population level for all that time, or if it was just a natural occurrence, but you're right, it is pretty impressive.

    I really liked the fact that most of their fertilisation needs were taken care of by two substances we now consider to be largely useless for such application (humanure and ash).

    As far as I'm aware, humanure was used as a fertiliser until we started eating food so heavily laden with preservatives and other nasties. This really stands out to me as the point we deliberately pushed ourselves outside of the natural cyclical order...our waste is no longer useful...the opposite in fact...it's a big expensive pollution problem.

    Very symbolic... :(
     
  5. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    It is very symbolic Jez...mores the pity that most people don't want to see it. I think a big part of turning away from using humanure may also have a bit to do with this insane requirement to be so clean and sterile - all body fluids are dirty and taboo...but people don't think twice about drinking the body fluid of a cow... :p

    I'm proud of the fact that I deal with my own incoming and out going products...I don't use our composting toilet contents on the veggies though...social conditioning I think. I need to read that Humanure book for a little education :)

    Hope all is well up your end of the country :D

    Cheers,
    Fran.
     
  6. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    I've just started reading Jared Diamond's Collapse, and in it he mentions the Japan has managed it's forests keeping 74% of the country forested. Well, Diamond is wrong. There are almost no forests in Japan, though there are plenty of tree plantations. The result being the 90% loss of biodiversity that one expects, nationwide cedar pollen alllergies, and substantard timbers in locations that are currently uneconomical to harvest.

    Moving on to rivers, there is now not a one that has not suffered the hand of the construction industry - either dammed, banked, or rerouted.

    The coastlines are covered in concrete tetrapods.

    The soils (and rain & air) are contaminated by dioxins.

    In short, it's a mess.
     
  7. PeterM

    PeterM Junior Member

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    Sustainability in Japan

    Jared Diamond is making a point about sustainability when he talks about Japan in the book Collapse, and it is interesting to compare what he says about Japan to his chapter on Australia later in the book. Here’s my summary:

    Peaceful conditions from about 1603 onwards caused an explosion in Japan’s population and economy, with Edo becoming the world’s most populous city by 1720. For a two hundred year period beginning in the early 16th century Japan isolated itself from the rest of the world and became virtually self-sufficient (until Commodore Perry brought the American fleet to Japan in 1853 and forced Japan to open its ports thereby precipitating the collapse of the shogunate rule and initiating Japan’s transformation into a modern society.)

    Jared states that deforestation in Japan was a major factor in an environmental and population crises brought on by the years of peace and prosperity and the resulting construction boom. Wood was used in nearly all Japanese buildings as well as being used for ships, for heating, for cooking and for industrial uses. In addition, the expanding population required larger areas for agriculture resulting in more forested land being cleared. The result of this was predictable from our modern perspective: growing scarcity of timber, decreased crop yields, major famines, massive soil erosion due to clearing of forested slopes (combined with Japan’s heavy rainfall and frequent earthquakes), flooding caused by water runoff from denuded slopes, river siltation, increased storm damage, shortages of forest-derived fertilizer, etc. All of this, Jared claims, resulted in Japan heading rapidly toward an Easter Island style catastrophe.

    However, this was fully recognized and acted on by the shoguns who invoked Confucian principles as an official ideology and other top-down measures that encouraged limiting consumption and accumulating reserve supplies for times of disaster. Timber consumption was officially limited, fuel-efficient cooking stoves replaced open-earth fireplaces, and reliance on the sun to heat houses during winter increased. At the same time, Japan achieved near zero population growth. Also, part of the plan to conserve resources was to cause resource depletion elsewhere (just like we do today). Many of the measures were aimed at addressing the imbalance bwtween cutting down trees and producing trees, increasingly by positive measures such as greater plantings. Jared states: “One of the first signs of awareness at the top was a proclamation by the shogun in 1666 warning of the dangers of erosion, stream siltation, and flooding caused deforestation, and urging people to plant seedlings. Beginning in that same decade, Japan launched a nationwide effort at all levels of society to regulate use of its forest, and by 1700 an elaborate system of woodland management was in place… A full solution to the crises required positive measures to produce more trees as well as to protect land from erosion. Foresters employed both by the government and by private merchants observed, experimented, and published their findings in an outpouring of silvicultural journals and manuals… Gradually Japan developed the idea of plantation forestry: that trees should be viewed as a slow-growing crop.”

    Towards the end of the chapter, Jared says: “An outside observer who visited Japan in 1650 might have predicted that Japanese society was on the verge of a societal collapse triggered by catastrophic deforestation, as more and more people competed for fewer resources. Why did Tokugawa Japan succeed in developing top-down solutions and thereby averting deforestation, while the ancient Easter Islanders, Maya and Anasazi, and modern Rwanda and Haiti failed? This question is one example of the broader problem, to be explored in Chapter 14, why and at what stages people succeed of fail at group decision making.” (I haven’t yet read Chapter 14, so I don’t know what answers Jared comes up with.)

    So you can see why Japan today, one of the most populous nations, is also one of the most heavily forested nations. Most of the population in centered in a couple of major cities leaving the mountainous countryside forested, but still far from free of human influence. A large percentage of rivers are dammed for hydro and other purposes (and many of these projects are just pork-barreling). Of course, Japan is not at all sef-sufficient any more. The ecological footprint of Japan is very high, equivalent to Europe, although about half that of the U.S. (but interestingly, Australia’s footprint is about 50% higher than Japan’s according to https://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_d ... catorid=13) In the second half of the 20th century, there were many strange and negative things you could observe in Japan which were covered entertainingly in the book “Dogs and Demons” by Alex Kerr. If you’re interested, there is a review of that book here:

    https://www.nytimes.com/books/01/04/15/r ... muelt.html
    and the first chapter here:
    https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/k/kerr-dogs.html
    (since they are at the nytimes website, you will want to get a temporary registration login from:
    https://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=ht ... ytimes.com
    )


    To be fair to Japan, the general population is becoming far more environmentally conscious and the country is still undergoing continuous change after a century in which significant societal upheaval occurred a number of times. Massive recycling efforts are slowly becoming ingrained into everyday life. For example, rubbish must now be separated by each household into several independent categories depending on the prefecture before being collected on separate days for each type. If you discard larger items such as electrical goods or furniture, you must now pay a fee to cover the cost of recycling and disposal, encouraging (via economics) the use of more environmentally friendly products while at the same time discouraging consumption. These may be small things, but it is raising the general consciousness about environmental issues in a massive consumer society.

    And let me say, there is still a lot of beauty in Japan if you know how to see it, and an incredible amount of potential.

    Compare all this with the not very flattering things Jared says about Australia: massive and ongoing rural land degradation and unsustainable fossil fuel based European farming practices. About our forests, he says, “Of Australia’s forests standing at the time of European settlement in 1788, 40% have already been cleared, 35% have been partly logged, and only 25% remain intact. Nevertheless, logging of that small area of remaining old-growth forests is continuing… Of forest product exports… half are turned into wood chips and sent mostly to Japan. While the price Japan pays to Australia for those wood chips has dropped to $7 per ton, the resulting paper sells in Japan for $1,000 per ton, so that almost all of the value added to the timber after it is cut accrues to Japan rather than to Australia. At the same time as it exports wood chips, Australia imports nearly three times more forest products than it exports, with more than half of those imports being in the form of paper and paperboard products.”

    He continues: “Thus, the Australian forest products trade involves a double irony. On the one hand, Australia, one of the First World countries with the least forest, is still logging those shrinking forests to export their products to Japan, the First World country with the highest percentage of its land under forest (74%) and with that percentage still growing. Second, Australia’s forest products in effect consists of exporting raw materials at a low price, to be converted in another country into finished material at a high price and with high added value, and then importing finished materials. One expects to encounter that particular type of asymmetry not in the trade relations between two First World countries, but instead when an economically backward, non-industrialized Third World colony unsophisticated at negotiations deals with a First World country sophisticated at exploiting Third World countries, buying their raw materials cheaply, adding value to the materials at home, and exporting expensive manufactured goods to the colony… That is, it would appear that Australia is squandering a valuable resource and receiving little money for it.”

    Jared goes on to talk a lot about Australia’s problems, its low fertility soils and their destruction, over exploitation of fisheries, problems with fresh water, the exceptionally fragile environment, and the fact that many government policies and cultural attitudes remain the ones that caused the damage in the past and that are still continuing to cause it. However, he does remain somewhat positive about Australia thanks to rethinking by Australia’s farmers, private initiatives and the actions of volunteers. Jared concludes with this paragraph: “On the one hand, the development of environmental problems in Australia, as in the whole world, is accelerating exponentially. On the other hand, the development of public environmental concern, and of private and governmental countermeasures, is also accelerating exponentially. Which horse will win the race? Many readers of this book are young enough, and will live long enough, to see the outcome.”
     
  8. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    I'm familiar with the Tokugawa Era and it's many policies. But I'm telling you again, there are almost no forests in Japan today. I know, I live here and have walked the countryside. There are green areas that some might think are forests, but they are tree plantations. Calling them forests is like calling a wheat field a meadow.
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Konnichiwa,

    Thank you everyone for opening this simply fascinating thread, and a special thank you to our two Japanese-based correspondants - very interesting observations and opinions. I look forward to exploring the links that you both have provided.

    Sore dewa,

    Mark.
     
  10. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    I am acquainted with an American man who has lived in Japan for the last 20 years, and he is interested in Permaculture.

    I asked him if Masanobu Fukuoka's brilliant work has been carried on there. He said he knew of it only by the books, and has never seen it in operation, or even heard people speak of the method.

    Another apparently recent issue with Japan is the high demand for flush toilets, in a country that has water problems just like everywhere else.

    And tree cropping is monocropping, with the same set of problems.

    Japan: just as stupid as the rest of the world, IMO.

    Sue
     
  11. bjgnome

    bjgnome Junior Member

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    Yes, a lot of tree farms in Japan, that's for sure. In my several trips to Japan, I never encountered a place I felt was in any way wild, which is kind of unnerving in a way. Feels psychologically kinda like not being able to get a deep breath of fresh air.

    In looking back at their history, I hope the Japanese take seriously their animism. Shinto reveres the spirit of trees, and just about everything else in the natural world. Mountains are considered to be people of a sort, which is why mountains are referred to with the respectful "san" as in Fuji San. Perhaps ancient shinto mountain worship has rubbed off in the japanese keeping their mountains green, if not wild. There are fabulous thousand year old trees, cedar and ginko at many old shrines and temples.

    The Japanese actually have negative population growth right now. I think this is due to a combination of factors, including I suspect dropping fertility (due to stress & lifestyle), the costs of childraising, and a rejection of traditional family roles by young women. A financial crisis looms if there are not enough workers to support the aging population. Japan may need to revise it's wariness of foreigners and encourage a bit more immigration to fill the workforce in the future.

    The big sustainability issues in Japan are food and energy as far as I can see. What will they do when the fisheries die and they can't import food anymore?

    What I can say about the Japanese for sure is that for a tiny island to become the #2 economy in the world with virtually no natural resources is most impressive. Their natural resources are ingenuity and work ethic. And, yes, they also have the capability to be stuipid sheeple like the rest of us.

    Jonathan
     
  12. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    japans Edo period

    I think Japan becoming #2 economy had a lot to do with the US occupation immediately after WW2. The US needed an Asian puppet to dominate this region and Jap provided them with an Asian “face”. Read “Blowback: The Cost and Consequences of American Empire” by Chalmers Johnston to get an insight on what went on re US-Jap in 1945 to the present.
     
  13. PeterM

    PeterM Junior Member

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    Hi Sue, I didn't mean to imply in my post that modern Japan is a good global citizen when it comes to sustainability, and Jared Diamond isn't saying that either. For one, Japans rape of the oceans is truly catastrophic and far more serious than you may have heard.

    When it comes to Australia however, I think it can be inferred from Jared Diamond's book Collapse that Australia is acting very stupidly indead. The ancient and fragile environment is exploited in a way that is truly unsustainable. For example, the few remaining native old growth forests are still being woodchipped for low value export. I just don't know what to say about such idiocy! :x

    Not only that, the government keeps pushing for population increase at a time when fresh water supplies are diminishing and the fertility of the land is declining. :? :-x Remember Costello's plea to Aussies to start breeding more and "have one for the father, one for the mother and one for the country." (Apologies in advance if I have just offended anyone with lots of kids, feel free to kick me over the internet.) At a workshop in South Australia it was pointed out that "the world's soils have lost between a quarter and three quarters of their nutrient value in the last half century" and that we often can't even get the basic nutrients we require from plants anymore thanks to the impoverishment of the soils. :cry: And the usual answer to this by the megacorps is to throw more increasingly expensive fossil-fuel based fertilizers into the soil.

    Here's a quote I found on the Water Conservation Portal:

    "A growing population is terrific if you are a property developer worth $300 million and are intent on becoming a property developer worth $500 million. But for the average person, water “shortages” are just one of the many signs of life getting WORSE with population growth. Those who stand to benefit from population growth are investment bankers, real estate agents, property developers, and construction companies."

    So, I guess I have just offended all the investment bankers and property developers who hang out in this forum. hahaha :)
     
  14. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    " I guess I have just offended all the investment bankers and property developers who hang out in this forum."

    Oh, my, what a shame... :twisted:

    Actually, any time a government says anything is a good idea, it probably isn't. They probably just want to make sure there's enough taxpayers to keep them in office. (I'm just plain mean, am I not? :twisted: :lol: )

    Sue
     
  15. Rod

    Rod Junior Member

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    The 'san' attached to mountain names is not the honorific used for people. It is the other reading of 'yama' - mountain. So it's not Mr. Fuji, it's Mt. Fuji.

    Forested areas in Japan appear to be increasing - these days you can often see the fluffy texture of real woodland breaking out in the middle of monotonous plantations. People here are coming to realize the food value of real woodland, and the other services like water purity and land stabilization. My local Permaculture NPO is setting up a forestry project at the moment, so the opportunities here are rather exciting.
     
  16. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    This thread is certainly a blast from the past... :D

    Welcome to the forum Rod.

    Good to hear that diverse forestation is becoming more valued in Japan.

    Best of luck with your project.
     
  17. Douglas J.E. Barnes

    Douglas J.E. Barnes Junior Member

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    That sounds great Rod.

    I'll be in Japan again in December for sure. If you make your way into Tokyo, I'll buy you a beer. :partyman:
     
  18. Rod

    Rod Junior Member

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    Hello, and thanks for the nice welcome.

    I read and enjoyed "Collapse" too. Now I'd like to read a book about how the survivors of civilization's collapses eked out a living until the next civilization arose.

    I wonder if this thread was inspired by the Japan for Sustainability website. Their newsletter sometimes has some valuable pointers in it. (edit: I see it was originally from JFS. Reading that site cheers me up sometimes.)
     

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