Village for sale

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Mike_E_from_NZ, Feb 19, 2006.

  1. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    Re: "set the record straight in defence of many 4x4 owners" many or a few? I have access to a 4WD, my mate next door, I use it every now and then to tow stuff, or pick stuff up, it's a great resource for someone on the land, I have a tractor to do my land based work but need a road going truck sometimes.

    BUT... what about all those shinny new massive 4WD's picking up kids after school, Mums in shopping centre car parks, Blokes going camping once a year who need a 4WD. Most 4WDs are dangerous "TRUCKS" not large cars and they use way to much fuel compared to what people should be driving around the city in.

    Tamandco, your husband is doing a good thing, we have two cars, one of which is not used and will be sold soon, I now get to my bi-weekly meeting by train and feel good about doing so.

    Now I bet those farmers in India could use a shinny new 4WD, if they had one it could be shared by a large group of families.

    This is how I would like to see aid given, giving a future.
    https://photos.permaculture.org.au/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=13
     
  2. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Baz,

    In a democracy people can throw stones wherever they like...I didn't vote for Little Johnny and his corrupt Coalition...I don't own them... 8)

    I loathe the US government, I loathe our government. I loathe 99% of the politicians on the face of the earth. Should the fact that my peers voted for the Howard govt render me unable to comment on other world governments...because ours is nearly as bad or worse? Silenced by virtue of the idiot majority? That sounds a bit like fascism to me...
    :D

    And FWIW, I wasn't 'targetting' the US, merely pointing out a fact. Many American's believe they give a lot more in foreign aid than they actually do...and that's before we get into 'Monsanto Aid' etc... :evil:

    Many American's genuinely believe they do more to help the world than harm it. That's something that needs to change IMO...

    Even informed, open minded people like Sue can occasionally end up among the misled...(as in this case with aid) this is massive public brainwashing at its finest...distortion of fact presented as fact for so long it becomes fact in many people's minds. All to convince the public they are on the side of the 'good guys'...

    We've been convinced of everything but the truth in most cases.
     
  3. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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  4. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    i gotta chime in here.

    everyone has their own version of what's being misled and i don't believe it makes sense to accuse others here on this forum of being "misled" or not open minded enough. we're all here cuz we're on the same side. we're all here cuz we have more in common than not.

    i have my own theory about what would make modern politics work again, and what would make modern politicians work for US, and not for the biggest lobbyist. *cough* monsanto *cough* halliburton *cough* etc.. etc..

    here it is: ban all political contributions. period.

    as long as there's sufficient public support for a candidate to run, they each would receive the same amount from the public purse to fund their campaign. no outside contributions allowed.

    once elected, each receives their usual salary to do their job.

    without the contributions trough, the kind of politicians we have now would cease to exist. without the contributions, politicians would be working for the people paying them -- *us*.

    no outside lobbyists. no influence peddling. no payments for friendly legislation. and most of all, the wrong kind of people will have no motivation to get into politics when all the pork is gone.

    problem solved.

    thoughts?
     
  5. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    hi spritegal:

    this is true, but this will knock your socks off: the indonesian people have NO IDEA that australia was so generous.

    my business partner is married to an indonesian and she was shocked when we told her about what australia had contributed. she said that nothing had EVER been on the TV over there about it.. and nobody in her village had heard about the contribution.

    i wonder what's going on there?
     
  6. bazman

    bazman Junior Member

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    In Indonesia they don't see Australia as the centre of the world like we do, they would have heard about the aid coming in from all over the world, not just how much Australians gave. Once the Australian money for the Tsunami appeal started to roll in all I heard was how generous we were, how fantasic we were for giving, all the commercial networks were onto it. Shouldn't those who receive the Aid be passing on thanks, we were far to quick to pat ourselfs on the back I think.

    Murray, "ban all political contributions. period. " I agree 100%. It's happening at all levels here, our local council is really bad, Gold coast council just got busted for it.

    Habanero: 4WD safety, safe if you hit a child yes, as the bonet is just the right height to smash a childs head open, cars are designed to lessen the impact when people are hit, most 4WDs are not.

    A 4WD is built for clearance, so it is high up, this means they can and do tip over where a car would not.

    The bonet of a 4WD is high up, if you get side hit in a car by a 4WD the top of the bonet is at head height, where another car would hit the door and inner side bars.

    Only a lightweight 4WD would be economical, most have full chassis and are made for???? yes off road 4WD use where strength and power is needed.

    $30 of fuel gets us about 500km, we drive our little car because it's cheap to run, does not waste fuel and it serves a purpose.

    Re: "plus i can afford it. maybe you can't? well that's not anyone folt but yours. - jelouse people" But I don't need one, so why buy one, I don't have the need to buy something to make others jealous.

    Don't get me wrong 4WD's have there place, I just don't think all those large city based 4WD's are needed.
     
  7. spritegal

    spritegal Junior Member

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    Excuse me, hello? Anyone at home? Aren't you posting this sort of small minded silly stuff on the wrong forum?

    Go on, I dare you. Be a little more open minded about fellow members.

    I've seen a lot of the people on alternate living forums show incredible generosity to other members in selflessly exchanging items, and NEVER for profit. They do it for the love of the lifestyle. You know who you are guys and gals, I won't embarrass you by mentioning names.

    Having nice shiny new possessions (whatever they might be) is an anathema to the objectives of "alternate living".

    Nor do most people have nice new 4WDs to show off (though they might have a clapped out old 1979 Series II Landcruiser converted into a tractor in the back paddock) Nor do they care a rats bottom if you have one.

    Well at least I certainly don't.
     
  8. spritegal

    spritegal Junior Member

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    Hello Murray

    I don't think the lack of information being disseminated to the Indonesian public is any great surprise at all - there would be lots of reasons, but not postable ones on here. I daresay your business partners' wife is right on the money there, pardon the pun.

    sprite
     
  9. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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  10. FREE Permaculture

    FREE Permaculture Junior Member

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  11. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    alright guys - let's not get wound up in stupid flames.

    if we don't have anything more to add to the thread, let's move on.
     
  12. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    Murray, you gave me a little giggle, you gently pull in line those that have made a generalisation yet you leave a very rude poster alone - a poster that has clearly offended those of us that are here on the same side and is making accusations that they have no grounds for, a poster that has only contributed a handful of posts - three of which I can see are very rude and inappropriate.

    Why don't you moderate these types of members? Do you wonder why the site is so quite these days? Perhaps it is all the aggression that is found here. It is not a safe space.

    It puts Permaculture in Australia in a very poor light.

    Regards,
    Fran.
     
  13. forest

    forest Junior Member

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    Habanero, I find it interesting that you can form a grammatically correct post, like this after your others that were more, shall we say, disguised?:

    "sprite
    what? hello? excuse me?
    if my opinion does not suit you then please move on to the forum you suggest. "

    Murray, I agree with Fran. It does put the site in a bad light.
     
  14. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    1. it's clear english is a second language for habanero, so why not cut him/her just a tiny bit of slack.

    2. habenero: please think for a second about what you're saying and/or maybe ask someone who speaks english better than you to make sure you're not coming across as offensive, rude, arrogant, or flamish. it's easy to do if you're not familiar with a language.

    3. his/her original "very offensive" post was:
    this really offended you? this was really "very rude and inappropriate"? please.
     
  15. macree

    macree Junior Member

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    I've only very recently discovered this site and have enjoyed the debate between diverse opinions, which I find generally doesn't include personal attacks and snide remarks.

    To me, permaculture is as much about promoting collaboration and collective power over hiearchy as it is about sustainable food production. If that's so, then don't all those of us who access the site and profess to be 'permaculturalists" also have a role to play in censuring posters when they're being inappropriate, to collectively create a culture that doesn't accept aggression and personal attacks. I thought the posts by Bazman and Sprite (and also yours Franceyne) were doing exactly that? Or do we really want and expect an 'authority' figure to take full responsibility?

    To my mind, if this isn't a safe space, it's puts the contibuting members in a poor light also.

    Ree
     
  16. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    There were three posts Murray - that caused angst with the members - unnecessary and inappropriate angst. We are here to discuss permanent culture not be raged at because someone thinks the reason we don't want/need a big fuel guzzling car is because we can't afford it and/or we are jealous. What is the point of contributing to a Permaculture forum if there are people here who do not understand it and get aggressive at those trying to achieve it?

    I agree Ree, and I don't like to stand by and watch someone become upset by a misplaced/aggressive comment that has no place in this forum, but unfortunately this happens a lot in the world of the net - people looking for groups of people to inflame. I personally would like to see Murray supported to just remove these flamers and for us to get on with discussing the things that we really care about with out having someone come in and pick a fight.

    Cheers,
    Fran.
     
  17. forest

    forest Junior Member

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    you missed my point, murray. I was implying that some posts are in broken english and this one is perfect, including the punctuation. It's very rare that a non-english speaker masters punctuation before spelling. :lol:
     
  18. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    yes - i am going to talk to habanero and lay down the law.

    forest, franceyne: you know, there hasn't been any problem on this board since you guys took off to go do aussieslivingsimply... so i was idly wondering why you were back in my face today. so imagine my surprise to find the site was down. LOL.
     
  19. Franceyne

    Franceyne Junior Member

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    I've been here the whole time Murray - posting when I have had something to add - but the site is very quiet these days with very few active conversations.
     
  20. forest

    forest Junior Member

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    yes, it's only picked up today because we're here posting because our preferred site is down.
     

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