Citrus guild anyone?

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Mike_E_from_NZ, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. Mike_E_from_NZ

    Mike_E_from_NZ Junior Member

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    :?: Has anyone on this forum got a successful citrus guild in their garden, or know of a successful recipe.

    Yep, I understand it'll probably be local to you, but it might give me a head start.

    Thanks

    Mike
     
  2. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Geoff Lawton used to talk about a plant called "dogbane" I think, that people on the sunshine coast of se qld had found to have a positive effect on citrus. it is an aromatic with fairly succulent leaves. Grows easily from cuttings, though may not be too frost hardy... anyone here know the one I am talking about?
    Also, people say that a guava tree here and there in a citrus orchard is good for overall health...
     
  3. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Citrus Growers Association here in Belize promoted centrosema (sp), desmodium and arachis pintoy as leguminous cover crops. Cannavalia ensiformis also works (but is less likely to be adopted by farmers because it is also habitat for snakes, and we have a few that are very very poisonous...). The arachis leaves a nice low soft ground cover.... and is my favorite, tho we really underutilize it.... (note to self, utilize it more...)

    Any thin foliaged tree that didn't get too tall over the citrus would be a useful inter crop, and between rows ginger could be grown, and in Veracruz, Mexico, the farmers have used citrus as live standards for vanilla (worth a LOT more than the oranges!).
     
  4. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Mike,

    The legum inous cover crops are what people use here, but a more diversified system is possible...

    More thought: Are you establishing a new citrus orchard, or retrofitting an existing one? That would give you two sets of variables in terms of spacings... working within existing spaces or setting out spacing to meet the criteria of your future intercropping species.

    I was a speaker at a workshop hosted by Ministry of Agriculture here a few years back on organic agriculture and what I presented was that it is much harder to retrofit an exisiting grove than to plan from the beginning (this is tru of cacao, too, which is my area of expertise)...

    I used citrus as an example, since most of the people who were interested in organic (mostly the substantial price premiums available and increased marketability) were citrus farmers, and designed on the chalkboard a fictitious farm with every third row of citrus removed for other crops, like banana, cocoyam, ginger, cardamom, vanilla, pigeon pea, various shortish and/or thin foliaged legumes, ornamentals to attract pollinators, etc, etc, etc.

    By planning your spacing to include intercropping, you end up with a more productive system, with lots of harvest cycles and plant guilds that benefit the citurs and, important to the people at this workshop, none of whom were organic farmers or permie people, improved the economics of the citrus, either by eliminating or reducing the cost of labour and inputs, providing other marketable crops or displacing purchased food, or by avoided cost of creating and enhancing nutrient cycles on site that benefit the citrus....

    The presentation was well received, tho I doubt any of them ran off and implemented a design based on my input :lol: .

    So, new citrus or existing?

    C
     
  5. Mike_E_from_NZ

    Mike_E_from_NZ Junior Member

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    A few small citrus trees already dotted around the block. They are not close to each other and I have plenty of room around them to plant other things.

    They were not planted with any forethought except that I wanted a few lemons and limes, and of course they didn't thrive. Now that I have a bit more thinking time on my hands, well...... I'm thinking!

    Mike
     
  6. nifwlseirff

    nifwlseirff New Member

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    I was searching for information on citrus guilds today as I found absolutely no mention of citrus trees in the most recent permaculture book I am currently reading (Gaia's Garden).

    I am currently renting, and would like to plant something under or near the established citrus trees to help with keeping the lawn away and controlling the rampant ants-scale-sooty mold cycle. Unfortunately I haven't found anything useful yet, but I'll keep an eye in here and post if I find anything.
     
  7. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    nifwlsetc,

    Toby's book, Gaias Garden, seems to me to be mostly temperate centered. Buit it is a wonderful book!

    Try arachis pintoy. It is slow to establish, but once going... great stuff, nice, soft, green legume with horisontal growing patterns... wonderful! It will need help in the beginning...

    Mike,

    We have used dolomitic limestone as a soil conditioner for citrus, but we can't get our soils tested in Belize, and it is pricy to get it done in either Mexico or Guatemala. It is possible in Australia, and I understand it isn't too expensive. Where we have applied it (our soil is fairly acid), there have been dramatic and impressive results.

    C
     
  8. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Did you come up with any more ideas Mike E? We have decided to put a certain area into dwarf citrus trees, and I am now pondering the same question more heatedly myself.
    Looking at it from another point of view, one of the problems that seems to affect citrus is ants colonising the trees and hollowing out the trunks, right? As well as bringing in other pests like aphids and those other sap suckers... So, I suppose anything that ants don't like would probably tend to be a beneficial companion to citrus.
    Then again, citrus have their feeding roots close to the surface, and are heavy nitrogen feeders, so you wouldn't want to plant other heavy feeders in their vicinity. Maybe not too many clumps of sugar cane in the citrus grove for example.
    The Permaculture movement must have lists and lists of positive negative associations for citrus by now. We're over 30 years old right?
     
  9. Mike_E_from_NZ

    Mike_E_from_NZ Junior Member

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    Hi R-O-M

    No more information, just a few thoughts:

    - nitrogen fixers are an obvious one
    - my father uses epsom salts around his citrus. So some kind of magnesium concentrator might be useful
    - I have not heard of the ant thing, but if aphids are a problem then a nice home for the ladybugs (nettle maybe) might be good.
    - comfrey seems to be useful for everything, so maybe a bit of that - even if just to keep the grass back from the drip line

    Any others?

    Does anyone live close to wild citrus? What kind of things grow around them?

    Mike
     
  10. Mike_E_from_NZ

    Mike_E_from_NZ Junior Member

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    Have just come across a few ideas. Apparently:

    - guavas and citrus grow well together
    - since citrus are mediterranean plants, they like to be around mediterranean herbs.

    Now, can anyone tell me what plants fit into the 'mediterranean herbs' category?

    Mike
     
  11. Forest Fairy

    Forest Fairy Junior Member

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    Hi Mike,

    As Christopher suggested. Arachis pintoy, or pinto's peanut as it is commonly known is an awesome groundcover between fruit trees or anything. Not too sure if it will survive a cold Auckland winter, but you can only try. The only problem is it is a little difficult to get hold of as a seedling in garden centres, but strikes fine from a cutting if you know someone who has it growing. Growing from seed is also a little tricky and I have not had too much success with it. The seed needs to be inoculated and then planted. It is not impossible, but just not as easy.
    I just love the stuff once it gets going. It is virtually impossible for any weeds to compete with it which is what we love, and it fixes the soil at the same time. Great all rounder.
    Best times to get cuttings and plant them if you can get hold of them is between Nov and Dec. Nice warm months.
    I also have nasturiums in between some of my trees and they also do wonderfully, and keep the pesky weeds away.

    With planting Guavas in orchards. I only just found out yesterday that cherry Guava trees are very "fruit fly attracting". You may not have a problem with fruit flys so it may not be of concern, but here in QLD, they are the bain of our existence. Now, I know why the previous owner of my property planted cherry Guava miles away from the rest of the fruit trees.
     
  12. Mike_E_from_NZ

    Mike_E_from_NZ Junior Member

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    My initial research suggests that arachis pintoi is not available in New Zealand.

    MIke
     
  13. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Might be too cold for you down there. It doesn't really survive frost very well. Would think that north facing valleys at the tip of the north island would work though! :lol:
     
  14. Ryan

    Ryan Junior Member

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    Is Arachis Pintoy (Pintos Peanut) also called perenial peanut?
     
  15. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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  16. ho-hum

    ho-hum New Member

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    Mike,

    In all of my permie readings I havent come across a permie guild for citrus. Given your climate I would consider lucerne as a handy plant. Deep rooted with plenty of other uses. I dont think citrus trees like shelter or competition from other trees.

    Citrus trees seem to do fine just with other citrus trees. I would consider pigeon pea though [I always do]. Plant anything leguminous with the correct rhizobium[sp??].

    Add about 3 chooks per full grown citrus tree and you are on a winner as far as the ants go. Chooks really do piss ants off.

    Cheers
     
  17. carollillith

    carollillith Junior Member

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    'Flowering plants such as elderberry and borage attract beneficial insects like hoverflies and lacewings, whose larvae are voracious feeders of sap-sucking aphids, which often plague plants like citrus trees. ' https://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1063743.htm

    I love the elderberries in and around my orchard and am planning to plant them more widely ... they're easy to propagate, have a multitude of uses. As a groundcover, to compete with kikuyu and paspalum, strawberries spread rampantly in the shady areas ... nasturtiums seem to do well on the edges, comfrey thrives and i've grown peas up my lime trees.

    The orchard is only around 3 years old, still evolving fast ... these weren't the plants i'd planned ... just what seemed to do best in local conditions ... and I'm enjoying eating cherry guava, no problems with fruit fly ... so far.
     
  18. Tezza

    Tezza Junior Member

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    I agree Guavas grow well with Citrus I got a row of citrus intermixed with guavas.all grow well together my only problems being some guavas hate the cold,Indian or Hawaien guavas,Cherry,pinapple etc grow better .My guavas are same size as my citruses.Shollow roots of cirus need a cleer weed free gowth cycle(no tone of my succsess)but getting better now

    Tezza
     

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