Creative problem solving in Willcox

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself Here' started by Rena Cook, May 22, 2017.

  1. Rena Cook

    Rena Cook New Member

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    Hello. Just signed up and hoping someone out there has dealt with our problems successfully.
    We have 10 acres in Willcox, Az, which was primarily garbage and sparse desert vegetation growing on an ancient lake bed. While Mesquite and bunch grass is the main vegetation, and the top soil is sporatic at best, we have good water and high hopes.
    The biggest problem we have is limited drainage in many places... clay and sometimes what appears to be sand stone below 2 feet. However, we have found some places with excellant drainage (for tree planting) and at 6 ' in one area we unearthed what we assume are yellow sands of an ancient streambed.
    The problem is we have run into areas where even when we dug 10 feet down, we could not get drainage. Interestingly enough, about 2 feet from top, above the water impenetrable level, there is a root zone that does drain.
    We are thinking of going with Mulberry trees since they only require 2' of drainage.
    Anyone else run into this problem? Should we 'go with the flow' instead of fighting, or keep looking for the deeper areas that do drain?
     
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Rena and welcome, I'm thinking the "sandstone" layer about 2 ft down might be caliche or calcium carbonate, which is often formed at the boundary of evaporation. Is it white colored?
    Have you done a jar soil test? It would be good to know how much clay, silt, and sand you have in various locations about your property. https://extension.oregonstate.edu/lane/sites/default/files/documents/jartest.pdf
    Also, I would assume your soil is alkaline, but a pH test kit would confirm that ... it may be different in various locations.
    I might start by defining the area with yellow sand and planting it out to nitrogen fixing trees and shrubs to begin creating shade, windbreak, and leaf litter. Any organic materials you can add on top of the soil in that area will help prevent evaporation and begin to build soil and soil life.
    Check out Bryant Redhawk's soil primer: https://permaculturenews.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-you-need-to-know-about-soil.16074/
     
  3. Rena Cook

    Rena Cook New Member

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    Thanks Bill,
    We have done a few ph test spots and it's obvious we are going to have to do a lot in order to get a better feel for our different zones.
    We definately have caliche, but this new discovery actually looks, feels and "sounds" like possibly an early version of sandstone. It appears to be an underground shelf because we have successfully planted some trees in several places around it. We are wondering if it would be worth it to buy a small drill (as a local pecan orchard went 18' for every one of their trees).
    Also, I want to start planting zones in sweet yellow clover to begin the process... do I need to mulch first? We raise sheep and do have several years worth of composted sheep manure I was thinking about tilling in before planting. Lol... this is definately a long term project I've jumped headlong into.
    Another question... I had a whole truck full of hay that went bad (blue fungas) that actually killed two sheep before I figured it out. We broke up the bales and kept turning it and it's been sitting in the sun for over a year now, but is it safe to use as mulch or should I just burn it? It does appear to be totally dry, but I don't want to risk it growing here.
    Thanks for the links and the info. Not only am I very much interested in getting into permaculture, but I am passionate about growing SW medicinal plants. Anyone into this you could point out to me would be greatly appreciated, too.
    Have spent the evening reading several threads and have quickly realized that permaculture is more a way of living than just a way to grow things. Exactly what I've been looking for all these years. Awesome.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
  4. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    -15C-35C, 10cm rain/mo, clay, full sun, K-G Dfa=x=Dfb
    for longer term help in breaking up/through soil layers alfalfa can
    do some of that. it takes years but it would likely be useful. i'm
    just not sure how much rains you get there and how much it
    needs. it does go dormant during hot dry spells. not sure though
    when it gives up. put your seeds down before the rainy season
    and it will take a few years to get to full size so should not be
    grazed.

    daikon radish are tremendous for putting holes in the surface
    for a few feet. i grew some last year through this clay that went
    down quite a ways. i couldn't pull them out. the deer ate them
    back to the ground this past winter otherwise they'd be blooming
    if they survive the winter. turnips i use as a general cover crop
    which the soil creatures seem to really like too, but they don't
    put down a deep tap root.

    grape vines also can send roots down very deep, but i would not
    ever recommend anyone plant wild grape vines. they're tough
    to get rid of...

    for any fruit trees well known to need such deep drainage your
    idea of busting through the layers is ok, i'm not sure how long
    it takes for those to plug back up. tree roots exhude acids to
    break down the bedrock.

    you don't mention what groundwater is there or how deep, but
    my guess is that you will be irrigating no matter what and to me
    ancient lake bed sounds like there will be plenty of salts to
    possibly contend with. you may want to build up a few more
    feet of the surrounding topsoil to form a long and big enough
    mound to get the trees on and then they will have several more
    feet of root space and the salts and drainage can go to a lower
    spot.

    i'm one of those people who's just a bit too paranoid about
    putting a lot of efforts in and being reliant upon technology for
    keeping the trees growing (a well pump and irrigation system).
    i hope conditions are not so harsh there, but i suspect you'll
    need those wind break and shade trees to help.

    any and all organic matter you can scrounge will help (all humus
    is a weak acid in one form or another), but keep your most
    nutrient dense materials for your veggie patches or trees you
    really want to most encourage. the native adapted trees won't
    need as much nor would you really want to encourage them to
    put roots along the surface anyways.
     
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  5. Rena Cook

    Rena Cook New Member

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    Thank you for the great information. The only problem I have with alfalfa is that I have to have a very secure fence to keep my sheep out. They will literally eat themselves to death if they could get on an alfalfa pasture... hence sweet clover. They don't go nuts over that. Especially good to know about tree roots exuding acid. Did not know that. Seems my plan of adding top soil and planting mulberrys on top is the right idea.

    We have a good well at 65 feet and we have a friend who is a solar engineer who is helping us to change our well setup to solar, so we're good there. I do worry about how long it would take a drilled out hole to fill back in with caliche though. Best idea is to work with rather than against our land, eh?

    We got lucky with the holes for our future windbreak elderberry trees. With extra water they can grow up to 30' tall in our area and Benson in time. Looking forward to trying my hand at elderberry wine!

    We've been bringing composted sheep manure down from our place in Luna, NM. Going to be bringing some composted dead pines and pine needles, too. Should help with neutralizing the ph I would think.

    Thinking of planting some goji bushes under some of our mesquite trees since their cousin, wild wolfberry, do so well there. Also thinking about putting an air barrier around the mesquite to keep them from mass producing with the extra watering they will be getting. What do you think?

    Again, thanks for the info... let's me know I'm on the right track, too.
     

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