Greetings Everyone! :-)

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by Jez, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    I've been lurking for a couple of weeks...slowly working my way through the enormous archive of wonderful discussions you folks have had over the last few years. It's been a daily pleasure I can't help coming back to, so many great ideas exchanged and fantastic likeminded people...I'm enormously looking forward to participating!

    Aquaponics has absolutely blown my mind with the possibilities...Joel, you are doing awesome work on this mate and I will be in touch to order a package in the next few days...I feel just like Christopher about this...every time I see the boys (can I be the green one?) :wav: I just crack right up thinking "YES!!!"

    A little about me...I have a background in a wide range of things but I've always loved growing food and nature in general. I grew up in Tassie (this is probably the only forum on the whole WWW where it's not a bad thing to be a Taswegian ;-)) and spent most of my childhood around fanatical gardeners. Most of what I know I learned through osmosis and then had confirmed when I later started actually studying various bits and pieces of horticulture, silviculture and permaculture. When I wanted to think of best organic practice I just had to picture my Grandmother's garden and how things were done... :wink:

    Since my childhood I've travelled most of Australia, settling most recently in the gorgeous Atherton Tablelands about 80km SW of Cairns. For those that haven't been here, this is an amazing place for people who work the land. In some areas of our little paradise, the rich, red, volcanic top soil is said to go down for 14 METRES! The climate here is wonderful due to the enormous amount of vegetation and the height above sea level which ranges from 600-1100 metres...no frost in most areas, abundant rainfall, many cool, mild evenings and rarely a day above 30 degrees. It's said that 80% of the total number of all plants/trees/crops that exist can be grown here and I'd believe it from what I've seen.

    I don't feel like I'm gloating about this as I've only been here a very short time, but just thought I'd mention all the above wonderful attributes it has because I never knew this place existed until I moved here...it's fantastic!

    Anyway, I have a fairly small suburban block and inherited a few mature trees...3 large Macadamia's, 1 Avacado (not sure what type), 1 Mango, 1 Lychee, 2 Orange, 2 Lemon/Lime, 1 Custard Apple, and another tree which I'm told is a 'Chocolate Pudding Fruit'...? - Strange thing has had fruit on it for the last 4 months...same size, doesn't fall, doesn't appear to ripen...just sits there! Maybe Wet Season will bring its maturity...I'm still a bit lost on the Tropical side of gardening...but getting there. :D

    The rest of the block is/was all cooch grass which I'm steadily eradicating with a combination of raised keyhole beds and mass planting of good insect attracting plants in the walkways (those which aren't covered in rows of covered decomposting cooch). The fences are just wire to about 5ft, so to provide some privacy and a better microclimate I am planting the entire lot out with mostly Agati, Madagascar Beans, Lillypilly, Arrowroot, Rosella with a few other larger things, and combining good insect attractant plants with hardy, feed loving spreaders like Perennial Rocket and Passionfruit. Hopefully by the end of the Wet Season, very nearly every inch of the place will be planted out in something edible or useful just the way it should be.

    It's been hard going...I figure my usual variations on sheet mulching type techniques are not good practice in a place with a chance of termite infestation (I have a good portion of attractive timber in the house construction)...termites feed on cellulose and I figure there must be plenty of that in newspaper...so lacking enough plastic or canvas to cover what I need, the whole lot is being chipped out with my trusty mattock and composted...good fun at the hot, tail end of dry season I can tell you...LOL

    Anyway, I've got too many things in the beds to go into detail, but everything is thriving and I have no fruit fly anymore (had some about 2 months ago) thanks to a new product on the market called Naturalure.

    The following is taken from https://www.greenharvest.com.au/pestcontrol/fruit_fly_prod.html:

    NATURALURE FRUIT FLY BAIT BFA organically certified
    This exciting new development in Qld and Mediterranean fruit fly control has had rave reviews by the few lucky commercial growers who had access to it last year. Similar products have been in use by certified organic farmers overseas, for years. The protein food bait is combined it with the biologically produced, organically certified insecticide spinosad.

    Apply as a band or spot treatment to the foliage of fruit trees and other fruit fly susceptible crops. To use mix with water to make either a concentrated (1 Naturalure: 1.5 water) or dilute (1 Naturalure: 6.5 water) solution. The female flies are attracted to the food source and when the Naturalure is ingested they die. Regular spraying throughout the fruit ripening season is essential for control. This type of product is most suitable for diverse gardens with a wide range of susceptible fruits or large orchards or market gardeners.

    PF122 4 litre $89.00


    I hope this helps my fellow Queensland growers who were unaware of this development to keep growing everything you can through the summer months...it's expensive to buy but goes a long way on bush type plants and small trees - and it works! Exclusion works...but it's time consuming and a bit impractical to cover everything.

    Anyhooo...enough of my way too long introductory ramble...look forward to talking with you all and thanks to each of you for making this place the great site that it is!

    8)

    Jez
     
  2. Guest

    Allo Jez! What a breath of fresh air, you are. So glad you are here and look forward to hearing more about life in the Tablelands.

    Thanks for the heads up on the fruit fly buster too... :)
     
  3. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Jez, welcome aboard. The Atherton Tablelands stole my heart when I was there years ago. I would love to be able to live up/down there one day...
    Which town are you in?
     
  4. earthbound

    earthbound Junior Member

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    G'day Jez..... :D

    Good to see your joining up..... You'll be thinking it's the best thing you've done in ages, and I'm sure your gunna love it around here.....

    I reakon you've grabbed first dibs on the little green guy, just so long as I can be the poo brown one, coz poo is soooooo good..... :D And well, I reakon Christopher is GOLD.......! :D

    I wouldn't know the atherton tablelands if I tripped over them, but they sound good......
     
  5. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Welcom Jez

    Atherton Tablelands are great - have been up a there a few times when visting friends in Cairns. Have you fished in the dam at all.

    The fruit fly bait sounds promising. I did see it in the Greenharvest Catalogue, but wasn't sure whether to give it a go. I use wild may - which kills the males. Maybe I should give that one a go also - go them with both barrels, one for the blokes and one for te chicks.

    Tell me more about how you are personally using it. Are you growing any tomatoes - what has happenned with them.

    What have you sprayed it on - how much and how often. Are you still using it - how much have you used so far (ie how much do you reckon you will use over the year).
     
  6. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Thanks for the warm welcome Rainbow, I've enjoyed reading about your property and your thoughts on things in the archives... :D

    ----------------

    Thanks Richard, I'm in actual Atherton at the moment mate, right on the outskirts where there is still a couple of farms on the edge of suburbia. As you probably noticed it's quite different from anywhere up here huh?...each of the little towns within 15-20 mins drive of one another have markedly different climates and growing conditions.

    Mareeba gets 300 days of sunshine a year and has mostly good soil...plenty of irrigation in context with the rest of the country...Ravenshoe ranges from spectacular rainforest to really runty dry sclerophyl forest and gets a wide range of rainfall within a small area...
    Herberton is scrappy bush and mining type soils...Malanda and Millaa Millaa are gorgeous wet rainforest and dairy country...Atherton, Tolga and Kairi have most of the deep volcanic soil between them and just perfect growing conditions...

    I bet Maui is pretty spectacular too Richard! I've been reading your posts and it sounds like you're doing some exciting and valuable work there. Are you from Australia originally? How did you end up over there?

    ---------

    Woohoo...I get to be Green Guy...hereafter known as "Algae"...:kermit:...:laughing6:

    Thanks Joel, I already love it here mate!

    You and Christopher need Aquaponic/Colour reflective nicknames now...I can't think of anything vaguely respectable to go with THOSE colours so you two are on your own there...8)

    ------------

    Thanks Veggie Boy, I haven't fished at all up here yet - haven't had time - but Tinnaroo and a few of the other local lakes are right up there on my 'once the garden is finished' list... :lol:

    At the moment I am using the Naturalure on Grosse Lisse tomatoes which started to set fruit about a fortnight ago (some almost mature and no signs of punctures yet) plus Money Maker's (same). I've got about half a dozen each of Red and Yellow Pear Cherry, Beefsteak, Tomatillo, Green Zebra, Tropic and Tommy Toe seedlings ready to go into the latest beds I have ready, so hopefully some of them will do ok through the wet in well drained soil.

    Got some Marconi Rosso Capsicums and Delicata Squash's which are close to maturity and unaffected so far.

    I've also been using it on the Avacado tree which set fruit maybe 5-6 weeks ago - no signs of punctures yet. I have a Peachicot tree which I forgot to mention before (mostly because it's going to be removed soon!), the earliest fruit was absolutely ravaged...every single piece full of maggots. I started using the Naturalure on it and since then the later fruit which is not quite mature appears to be free of puncture marks and the few I've opened up coz I couldn't resist a peek were maggot free (obviously I can't see the very topmost fruit).

    As for applying it, I just mix it up in a spray bottle and apply it here and there to the foliage for the bushes, and get up on my step ladder and apply it from downwind in a few scattered squirts onto the foliage of the trees, with a little bit here and there on the bark (it works on any surface they land on apparently, so you can literally put it anywhere you think is best). You'd probably want a good knapsack spray rig to do a decent sized orchard or anything on a commercial scale.

    I dunno how much I'll use over the year...I've seen market gardens with less food than what I'm attempting to grow (I have a business which requires fresh produce every day). I can say that just using it 3 times on two dozen tomatoes, about the same amount each of squash's and capsicums, plus the two trees, and a bit of general spraying (I figured I had a pretty bad infestation if I lost every piece of fruit off the Peacicot), I have only been through about 350ml of concentrate I'd say. The first round I mixed to the recommended full strength dose (1 Naturalure: 1.5 water), the next two diluted (1 Naturalure: 6.5 water). If you kept up a fairly regular fortnightly regime with the diluted I'd say that would keep you out of trouble and you'd only use the concentrate to knock them right back initially (that's how I'm hoping it will pan out and is so far)

    I'd say for what you'd use on say a single tomatoe bush, you'd be paying only a matter of a few cents to treat it right through to maturity from the time it starts to flower...it seems very economical but I'll know better once I get all the beds up and maturing at similar times... :lol:

    For me it's a small price to pay for relief from the wretched fruit fly...once was enough to see the havoc they could wreak on my growing plans.

    FWIW, I also put a particularly rich homebrewed stout mixed with a little water into a few coffee cups and hung them in trees and put them on the ground around the beds - topped them back up with a little water every couple of days...these also seemed to attract and drown a lot of the pesky suckers...thankfully, coz I don't like wasting my good stouts...:D

    Plus I still remove all fallen or bird affected fruit (no chook or duck buddy helpers happening yet!).

    I heard on the grapevine that a couple of local organic growers are using it and having spectacular results...that's what made me keen to give it a go. I'll report more as the wet rolls in and as I get more of the things I have planted and intend to plant through to full maturity.
     
  7. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    YOu might be the green guy, but all of the rest of us are green with envy no doubt.
    Atherton is a nice little town I reckon. Or it was 10 or so years ago... My first wwoofing "job" was with Colin Digby on his ginger farm up at Topaz. Literally one of the wettest places on earth. Later I spent the harvest season at Paul Briggs custard apple farm (he was in the process of diversifying into maca's and avo's) closer to Atherton. He used to take the family out to eat every so often at the little Chinese restaurant in Atherton. It was like a big night out!
    Oh the memories of those rolling hills! the Barron River! the Taipans!
    Jez, what is your business that requires fresh produce everyday? SOunds interesting.
    I ended up in Maui as a result of answering a post on this board! I do love it here, but it is sort of a temporary arrangement. Besides it is full of Americans! :roll: :lol: Just joking of course, my best friend is an American! Seriously though, Maui is getting crowded, and there are tensions bubbling up everywhere. Drugs are a problem, so crime is pretty rampant. We also have every species of fruit fly known to science!Trouble in paradise... I know these things are happening everywhere, but still, I hope we can get enough money together to live in an ecovillage on the tablelands one day.
     
  8. forest

    forest Junior Member

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    Hi Jez, welcome to the forum. I haven't been here long myself but I've found some very useful info in the threads and the people here and intelligent and friendly - that's a great combo. :wink:

    Your little corner of the world is a wonderful place and such a contrast to Tasmania. I'm sure you'll make a nice life there in what sounds a wonderful garden.

    BTW, your chocolate pudding fruit is probably a black zapote. Yum. :)
     
  9. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Yeh, Black Sapote, Chocolate Pudding Fruit (Diospyrus dignya) , not related to the other sapotes like the white, green or yellow, but actually in the Persimmon family but from the the Americas.
    It is pretty hard to tell when they are ripe as they are still sort of green, aren't they? Most that I have had have fallen from the tree. But I still haven't had that many.
    I do hope that in the second half of my life I eat a lot more of them than I did in the first part! They are pretty delicious. I've never had it that way, but they say that mixing it up with cream makes like a mousse.
     
  10. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Hi Jez,

    Thank you for your kind words! Nice to have your participation.

    Where you are sounds really wonderful! You list of species sounds like you grow many things there that we can grow here, so I can identify with where you are and what you are doing.

    Chocolate pudding fruit would be Black Sapote, a wonderful fruit. It is

    We have not had luck with Macadamias because we are too low in elevation (so we have been told), so I am deeply envious (feel the envy?).

    Of course, with a small yard, would I be uncharacteristically enthusiastic to....
    recommend...
    a....
    wonderful...
    and...
    appropriate...
    (ready guys?)
    ..
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    aquaponics system?
    :wav:

    (YOU GUYS ARE GETTING A RAISE SOON! REALLY!)
    "Yeah, thanks guv..."

    And I am still fired up about aquaponics. I have been thinking, dreaming, scheming, planning, hoping, waiting (impatiently, mind you) to be able to start our system.... I have a spot picked out, and plans for building one, but we are too busy building student housing and finishing kitchen for upcoming PDC in February to do anything really fun...

    Anyway, I really look forward to hearing more about where you are and what you are doing. Thanks for sharing the info on organic fruit fly control, too.

    C
     
  11. Lolly

    Lolly Junior Member

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    Hi Jez... *waves*... welcome!
     
  12. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Crikey Richard...you know more people up here than I do... :lol:

    I'm not a very sociable animal when I've got lots of work in front of me!
    Tolga is nice but it's quickly being filled up with more and more stark subdivisions. It's a bit of a hobby horse with me that people here build 1/4 acre blocks of cooch grass and palm trees over prime agricultural land. There are still a few organic smallholders up there from what I know, but I think they're a dying breed.

    I have a small cafe with a friend...the general idea is to produce loads of fresh stuff and have as much as possible at the cafe organic and home grown...plus use the tax advantages of having a business to funnel money back into building the garden...which improves the value of the house...so essentially I'm using what I would pay in tax to improve the garden and house value...plus between the business and the garden we don't pay for anything out of our own pockets but shampoo and other small incidentals that can't go down as a legitimate business expense.

    I've been working this kind of system for a few years now, buying good value ugly duckling houses that have redeeming structural or location features and no garden, then I make them more eco-friendly and tart them up a bit, put in a permaculture plot which is close to self-sustaining and on-sell them.

    It doesn't work out being a lot of money, but we've survived and prospered through the housing boom...my strategy is to find ways to spend less rather than to earn more. I can't work in the 'real world' doing 'real jobs' - I just find it too upsetting for too many reasons to list! ;-) After this house we will hopefully be able to afford a good few acres further south and we will build a self-sufficient place and retire (I'm only 30 so I plan to still do some work here and there when necessary). I'd like to retire up here on a decent size place...but we'd be carrying a mortgage on our back for the rest of our days doing it with just two.

    So Richard, if you or anyone else wants to throw in for some land up here in the next few years, let me know and we can probably make it happen...nothing would make me happier! :D

    I'm sad to hear Maui is affected as you say...but you're right, it is happening everywhere.

    Check out this place mate - this would be a great place to throw in with a few people if you wanted a bit more than just farmland type acreage.

    https://www.realestate.com.au/realestate ... e8/7080277

    It's a lot of cash, but damn it's a lot of land too eh...plus a lot of your typical costs with these ventures (roads, infrastructure etc) are already taken care of.

    This one:

    https://www.australianrealty.com/index.p ... ae1b3e448f

    Is a bit more affordable but still great for an eco-village type set up.

    There's tons of options up here and land is still awesome value if you have a little bit of buying power - (1 acre plots by the river are expensive!).

    I'd be in like Flyn mate...and this old barn of a house we bought is just about big enough to house everyone while we get it all tied up! :lol:

    ---------------

    Black Zapote eh Forest? Excellent mate - thanks! I hope to eat one one of these months when they're finally ready...there's about 60 or so on the tree and tons of new blooms coming on so I was starting to wonder what the heck was going on... :lol:

    I thought they were changing colour but it was just dust and debris washing down onto the tops of them...they're just as fat, green and hard as ever... :lol:

    I'll put eating Black Zapote on my Christmas happy time list and leave it a bit longer... :lol:

    Yes, it's an astronomical difference between here and Tassie...different worlds it seems out in the garden...lots of adjustments to make...good fun having to learn all over.

    Thanks also for your kind words of encouragement and welcome.

    -------------------

    Christopher, Aquaponics is a huge buzz for me too...it creeps into my head at the strangest times and gives my giddy feelings inside it's such a cool concept! I have an roofed, mason block BBQ area tacked onto the lower floor of the house which is not a great BBQ area...but it will be a perfect shady, sheltered place for the fish tank, with the beds outside, perhaps under a cover. I got four pallets of reject concrete breeze blocks some weeks back to build my raised beds (too risky to use sleepers or wood here with the termites if they're going to be in the open and wet a lot)...so I already have the blocks and have enough timber supports for the tanks (the pallets) as Joel's home system!

    I'd never heard of Aquaponics when I got the blocks...talk about fate...with the ready made (free!) pallets I'm already part way there with materials I ended up with by accident rather than design...

    Your place and what you're doing there sounds fantastic...I'd love to head over for a visit and lend a hand some day if the chance ever presents itself.

    In the meantime it's great getting infected by the enthusiam you bring to this place...you're great Christopher - your positive energy has been making me smile every day for weeks! 8)
     
  13. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Jez,

    I am definitely interested in what you are suggesting. Obviously there is so much detail to work out in an ecovillage development, but it is definitely how I want to live... the big question is how to find the right people to do it with, and I am excited that we might have started to find each other!

    I did like the Ravenshoe end of the tablelands, although I really only passed through on my bicycle. It isn't as wet as the eastern side is it? but I guess with good water harvesting earthworks etc you could do well. I didn't spend enough time in that area to get a feel for the soil types. My memory is really just of the forest type becoming more eucalypt dominated the further west you go...

    The properties you linked to both look like they have good "eco-tourism" potential. I think that this would be a great money maker for an ecovillage, and more so into the future. You could offer varying levels of accomodation, and all sorts of value adding from guided nature walks to sales of produce and preserves and crafts etc...

    I love the idea of an integrated community, where the land use has been designed to faciliate agricultural livelihoods for multpile families, where each activity compliments the next...

    Oh, by the way, your strategy for spending less rather than earning more sounds very cool. Your cafe sounds awesome.

    Have you met the Van Raders? They were always at the local markets when I was up there. They have a pretty small lot thoroughly planted out. I think they are close to Malanda. They teach Permaculture on some level, not sure if they are doing the full PDC. Anyway, they would be good people to connect with if you are looking for a local community of Permculture people.
     
  14. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

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    Hey Jez, welcome. You are a woman after my own heart. Any forms I have to fill out I list my occupation as "retired" I'm 31 so you should see the looks I get. My daughters birth certificate lists me as "domestic goddess"
    Your patch of earth sounds beautiful. I'm in North west NSW right in the middle of prime agricultural land. We're on 100 acre's. Right now I'm in a tree planting frenzy, only been here six months but everyone knows me as that greenie woman.
    This is a great site, I have learnt so much from the wonderful people who contribute.
    Your cafe sounds fantastic. Hubby and I have our investment property on the market so we can build cabins here and provide people with fresh organically grown meals and a self sufficient/ farm holiday experrience.
    So once again welcome, I'll see you around the post's.
     
  15. HoneydaleFarm

    HoneydaleFarm Junior Member

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    Jez,

    There is a couple of great organic Dairying people in the Atherton Tablelands. The first is Mulgowie the other is a biodynamic Buffalo group doing their cheeses through Mulgowie. Both the guys are fantastic, and well worth a chat if you look to get into product development. Also there is some great organic coffee (Jacobs) , and if you want any business help talk to Sue Fairley your local Business devlopment officer, shes fabulous!

    A
     
  16. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Heya Lolly! Sorry I missed you up there...between trips to the garden and kitchen I must have started typing before your message came through... :D


    Richard, I'm very glad to have met someone interested in an ecovillage type lifestyle - especially someone who has been here and loves it already.

    I would say though however, that I'm not really that keen to base an ecovillage on tourism or luxury type sales of produce. Twenty years ago I would have jumped in, but with what I have since learned regarding peak oil and the impending energy crisis we face, I want to avoid my livelihood being dependant on or in any way affected by a massive plunge in people paying to travel and for non-essential produce.

    I'd like to work toward being self-sufficient and self-contained, with a small guaranteed staple income for neccessities, rather than outlay a lot of capital on infrastructure which will need eco-tourism and other such industries to continue prospering and growing over the coming decades. That's just me mate...I see Ghawar over in Saudi Arabia drying up and the massive amounts of seawater they're pumping in to extract any oil...just this week Kuwait announced the Burgan oil field (2nd biggest reserve after Ghawar) is at the point of exhaustion...I think over the next few years there's not going to be anywhere near the same amount of money around as there is now and has been in recent years...the cost of fuel is going to send us into a very long and (for many) painful recession IMO. If it doesn't happen soon it won't be too far away and I'd rather be ready and have long term fruit trees producing as soon as possible etc.

    So our long term plan is outright ownership (no debt) of a good sized portion of land, either individually or communally, within the next couple of years and possibly even in the next few months. The coming years are no time to have a big mortgage and an occupation which revolves around unneccessary expenditure IMO (I have both at the moment!). If it can be done here on the Tablelands I'd be chuffed because this place has a ton of advantages going for it...but having said that, we're adventurous 'can-do' kind of souls who would thrive anywhere we ended up.

    I'm always thinking of outlandish agricultural challenges for some reason...when I first discovered Aquaponics here I thought...hmmm...I wonder if this would make being self-sufficient in Coober Pedy type desert area more possible...your house and a large number of fish tanks underground in the granite...gravel beds above ground with appropriate shelter/shading and a water collection system...swales full of the sort of hardy species used in the Jordan project on the front page here for the land away from your immediate house area...dig out a huge complex in the granite away from your living area, then use the abundant solar power from the new sunballs to grow mushrooms and other good stuff that can be power intensive...would be great fun and great incentive to others that you can make an alternate lifestyle work anywhere if you plan well, invest well in your future and use good principles to make it all happen...8)

    You'd have to go north of Coober to where they get their water from or have a special water license from the local council - might be a goer if you could supply the locals with some fresh produce all week instead of their usual 'veggie day' when the truck rolls in...8)

    I also have this feeling that because we have the necessary means to buy a large area of marginal land and convert it to permaculture type principles, wondering if perhaps that would be the best way to help out at an individual level.

    So as you see Richard, we're really flexible about where - easy street on the Tablelands is fine and a mammoth challenge with a bigger payoff in satisfaction is maybe even better...:lol:

    But we will be doing something in the next couple of years for certain and I hope our ideas coincide enough to do something together...:D

    Back to your questions mate (sorry!), Ravenhoe is wetter than Mareeba (which is where you go if you go through Atherton then Tolga and keep going on the road to Cairns) I believe, although Mareeba does have quite a good irrigation scheme with the dam system plus bores.

    Small food businesses aren't all they're cracked up to be anymore...in the last few months we've had another 6-7 competition food businesses open up in a town of only about 8,000 immediate residents. Naturally it's the usual culprits...Subway, and all sorts of franchise coffee, cake and donut type places trying to expand and get more market share (we already had Mcdonalds and Kentucky!)...plus there's also been a few ventures of our size open up as well...

    Add to that the price of everything goes up every few months for those of us in this trade, yet we can't put our prices up that often or you're just asking for a sharp increase in the number of people complaining about the price of things (wanting to pay what they paid in 1995 still!) to drive you nuts by the end of an average day. The margins just keep getting skinnier and skinnier until you're cooking for free almost unless you bite the bullet, put up prices and cop it for a few weeks. The landlord, the electricity comapny, gas, phone, wholeslaers and countless number of other essential links in your business chain all put the price of their essential services up at will...the actual food outlets cannot...we just have to wear it basically... :(

    I haven't met the Van Rader's, but I'll be sure to look out for them because I haven't seen any Permie type groups or anything up here yet.

    Thanks for the tip mate - much appreciated...let's keep kicking a few ideas around for communal living and see what we can come up with... 8)
     
  17. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    :lol:

    I'm a bloke actually Jet...but I take your assumption as a compliment...can we still be soul brother/sister early age retirees anyway? 8) :lol:

    Go Greenie Woman! . :lol: There's nothing as satisfying as a good tree planting frenzy (I'm envious!). Sounds like you're in prime 'conversion' country...a few years from now those whispering, curious traditionalists might just be beating a path to your door for advice and assistance... 8)

    Best of luck with all your efforts there Jet, I hope it all goes great and thanks again for such a memorable, pleasantly confused first meeting... :lol:


    Honeydale, thanks so much for posting that advice for me...I've actually been half-chasing organic cow manure for some of the beds I'm building, but wasn't getting anywhere fast...so now I have two possibilities! What would you like me to plant in your honour for your contribution to the garden? :lol:

    I don't know Sue Fairley at all, but unless she has the power to make multi-national corporations disappear and to make people up here be prepared to pay 10-20% more for home cooking compared to mass produced poison slush, she probably can't be of much use to us or any of the other struggling small food shops of our type all around rural and regional Australia. City people are willing and able to pay extra for things done properly. I know in Launceston, Hobart, Melbourne, Adelaide, Sydney, Perth - the cities I've lived in - you could charge 300% more for some items than you can here.

    Fair dinkum, we've been abused on numerous occasions for selling a plate of beautiful homemade lasagna and salad for $4.50, on a proper plate with proper cutlery, at a table with sit down service.

    And I'm talking abused.

    The same people invariably would make $20-80 an hour and have no problem whatsoever paying $6-7 for a Big Mac and buying a couple for their kids a few times a week.

    All the advice in the world to business owners can't change the minds of people like that...and we deal with plenty of them.

    You get a sore jaw after a while...hitting the floor so regularly... :lol:
     
  18. Jet

    Jet Junior Member

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    :oops: Sorry about that Jez, don't know why I made the assumption you were female, I once asked a woman when she was due............she wasn't pregnant :shock: :oops: :wink: so you get the picture.

    Thank's for your previous post, I think your right on so many levels. I am going to seriously re think my plan for holiday accommodation. That and I've just started reading Affluenza, it's one of those books where you sit there going "oh yes" if you know what I mean. :? Anyway I am off to ponder my future.
     
  19. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    Hey Jez, I must admit, I thought you were a sheila too... Of course, do take that as a compliment... Are you married? Do you have children? I am, to Lorinda who is as devoted a Permie as me, and she is probably better at most of it than me!, and we have a 2.5 year old who is already collecting eggs and mulching gardens and so on...
    Don't get me wrong about the ecotourism aspect. I feel much as you do, that the community foremost would be about providing for its own needs and being connected to the local bioregion... I do think that a component of the activitiy could involve some kind of ecotourism though... Done right it could be educational and sensitive to the environment, within the obvious dichotomy of the tourists consuming lots of energy to get there... But until the oil runs out they'll keep trucking around and aropund and around, and if we can expose them to something cool it might make a difference. And you know, making money from growing food and fibre is a hard thing to do, anyway you do it; to keep my love for gardening I think I would rather concentrate on growing a good diet for myself and family and friends and making the necessary extra dollars in other ways. I do like the idea of Bamboo forestry for income. Although even that is dependant on the oil economy, to some extent, with the real payoff being off season fresh shoots to asia. That's one reason why the tablelands has appealed to me. It is close to the international airport in cairns. I know long term it isn't sustainable, but it has the potential to provide relatively good livelihoods and make money at the same time. And if we really do run out of oil in our lifetime, it will be easier to build our houses out of bamboo than to cut down and mill timber!
    Like you I have also thought a lot about how much more difference you would make in an arid zone to somewhere on or east of the divide. But I don't know. I think there are so many challenges in self sufficiency and living in community that it might not hurt to get a head start in terms of rainfall and soil... And I do so love the Tablelands. The colour of the water in Lake Eacham for example, is about the most exquisite sight I have seen...
    Anyway, my family is at the point where we have been working on other peoples land for long enough and would like to get into a position where we can plant trees and have some certainty that we will grow old with them. You know? I think you do...

    So, you are looking to make it happen pretty soon? Do you know other people who are into the idea? What are your plans?
    my email is [email protected] if you want to contact me offlist. Maybe we can discuss some more personal details etc.

    We are about ready to get on the plane for the last time!
     
  20. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    Hi Jet,

    I haven't read Affluenza, but I think a lot about the repercussions of our coming energy crisis and have drawn a lot of quite nasty conclusions about what may happen in society.

    I'm also greatly looking forward to the challenge...we're getting to the point where doing the right thing by the earth and ourselves is going to be essential and obvious to a lot more people...hopefully a huge majority.

    I think you're already in a great position to prosper in the coming years from what I've read at your plans for self-sufficiency and it's going to help a lot to be in a rural area I'm sure - people have more respect for each others needs.

    I didn't mean to put you off your eco-tourism venture, I don't know your financial details or any of your situation specific logistics...I'm just a bit put off about going down that road myself because we have limited funds and can't afford to compromise our ability to feed and house ourselves by being in debt on a project with a possibly limited future.

    Richard,

    I think we've got plenty in common to discuss, so yes mate - I will drop you an email tonight (Oz time) and we can explore this a bit further without tying up space here (and I can pull out all the 'special dream' properties I hide so nobody pinches 'em first)... :lol:
     

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