Introduction

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself Here' started by mark anstice, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Hello Everyone

    My wife and I are building a house in a beautiful little rural community in Morocco, on the Atlantic coast just north of Essaouira and want to set up a perma-culture centre there with our neighbours. It's a tall order as I am new to perma-culture but I think with your community behind us we can do it. My own perma-culture experience is confined to only part of a course run by Darren Doherty in Ibiza 2 years ago so I'm going to be asking for a ton of advice.

    Agriculture there is of the donkey drawn plough variety and what little rainfall there ever was is becoming less and less. Our neighbours scratch a small personal store of wheat and veg from the fields each winter, relying on goats for any income. It's the usual story: the up and coming generation don't want to herd goats anymore and they don't see a lot of future in their soil. After harvesting, the last thing they do is turn the goats onto the fields to strip them bare before the summer sun and wind go to work and in the autumn they start again with donkey manure and phosphorous. Unless there's a very heavy rain shower only the roof-fed cisterns capture any of the annual precipitation; the hillside fed ones stay empty.

    I think it's a perfect place for a research centre and I can think of no better use for the building we have laboured over than to eventually play host to students from near and far. I also see my own future as being irrevocably wrapped up in permaculture and would love to get to the stage of teaching one day, so I'm really looking forward to being part of your community.

    Very best to all

    Mark
     
  2. Devendra

    Devendra Junior Member

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    Hello Mark,

    First of all, congratulations to and your neighbours for willing to start a permaculture project. Your story sounds wonderful. I wish you all the luck and keep us informed with the progress and discoveries that you make along the way. I tell you, its a hard path that you have chosen but nonetheless a very satisfying when you see the results. As water is the building source of anything and you get so little, i would like to suggests that you make water catchment areas to start with. I am sure our good perma friends out there will write more interesting stuff here to help you in your journey and how best to go about learning the permaculture principle. May i also suggests you to google search for permaculture, read whatever you can, find and watch videos on you tube. I find the PRI website very helpful too.
     
  3. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Thanks Davendra

    Yes water catchment is at the top of the list, just beneath raising money for this! In fact we won't be arriving in Morocco until November, by which time they'l be planting already, so I think building water tanks is pretty much all we'll be doing this first winter, then protecting the soil for the summer. There are lots of goats which is a bonus, but not much of anything else, besides stone.
    Traditionally they've carved small diversions diagonally across the hillside behind, which channel rainfall into a number of underground cisterns. For the last few years, though, there hasn't been rain heavy enough to activate these. Even our own well, hand dug to 200ft deep, is dry!
     
  4. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Hello Mark and welcome.
    Darren Doherty is a big proponent of key line plowing, which serves to capture all available rainfall, get it quickly deep into the earth (prevents evaporation), and by plowing just off contour downhill from the keyline, guide soil moisture from hillside "valleys" to the hill "ridges". Could be something to experiment with.
    I live in a wheat growing area where a crop is only planted on a plot every other year. During the fallow year, the soil is roughed up to act as a sort of mulch and help prevent all the moisture from evaporating. The area is designated as BSK according to the Koppen-Geiger system (evapo-transpiration exceeds precipitation).
    Keep us abreast of your progress! Dryland Permaculture is my big passion.
     
  5. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Thank you 9anda1f, I can't imagine a keyline plough handling all the rock we have just beneath the surface? I'll look into it though. I used the Koppen Geiger system to decide upon semi arid as my classification. It does indeed show BSk on the map but given our average temp of 20 and min of 15 I reckon we must be BKh. Whatever, there's not a lot of rain!
    Wife's car's broken down so gotto go now!
     
  6. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Back again. I have a lot of reading and research to do. If anyone could help me be more efficient with my time by steering me to the threads or publications or films that they feel are particularly relevant to 'semi arid' I will be very grateful.

    Many thanks

    Mark
     
  7. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Use the search engine built in to narrow things down rather than reading all the threads. Try something like this for starters.
     
  8. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Thank you
     
  9. Peter

    Peter Junior Member

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    Hi Mark,
    I have worked in many area's with underprivileged people that were fighting for existence with low rainfall and degraded soil. I gave them some of my microbes and taught them the value of the waste from their harvests and how to apply my microbes. In all of my experiences with these people there was an immediate increase in yield and quality of the produce and soil tests taken months later showed a remarkable improvement in the soil quality. If you want more information please contact me.
    Best of luck.
    Cheers
    Peter Briant
     
  10. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Hi Peter

    Only just coming back to this forum after a while. Yes, I'd be very interested in more information. We're still very much in the planning stages and haven't even started to hit the detail yet.

    It sounds like an EM (Effective Micro Organisms) type of thing? I put some of that on my own patch several years ago but we were foiled as soon as we left Morocco for Spain (where we make our living) when the neighbours turned their goats onto our cover crop!

    Best

    Mark
     
  11. Peter

    Peter Junior Member

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    Hi Mark,
    EM microbes are OK and they do their job in certain areas but they are not as capable as mine. As you have low rainfall you need microbes that can collect the water when it rains. There is a lot to soil-microbes and maybe you should read a flyer I produced some time ago. If you want to have a read it go to https://www.biotic-solutions.com/ and look in the products page and down the bottom is the flyer.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  12. nohouselefttostay

    nohouselefttostay Junior Member

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    Hey Mark!

    My name is Nick. I have been trying to find your contact details on the net ever since I saw your site on work away. I have been travelling for some time and so I didn't want to spend the 22 euros when I thought I might be able to find your contacts elsewhere. Looks like I did. I don't mind saying I am a pretty resourceful person sometimes.

    To cut it short I would love to work on your project starting in Feb 2015. I was working in environmental rehabilitation for 2+ years before I left home (Australia) and believe I could be a great asset and have many ideas to help you on site. I have planted more tree than I care to count and have experience and knowledge with 100's of species. I don't mind doing the hard yards I am 26 and in good shape I will really hit the ground running. Really love to hear back from you. take care

    Nick.

    if you prefer we can talk via email just private message me
     
  13. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Hi Nick

    Well done tracking me down.

    Feb '15 is along way off. Do you mean Feb '14? If the former, let's chat at a much later date and there will probably be a space. If the latter, unfortunately we won't have the money to feed volunteers by Feb and nor, at this rate, will we have any water to water them with. Around beginning of March I'll be turning my attention from building the house/centre to the larger permaculture project but much will depend on how my fundraising efforts have gone in the meantime and I'm new at that game. Later in the year, I hope to open the doors to volunteers again.

    Very best

    Mark
    PS: You can message me at www.facebook.com/fertileroots
     
  14. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    if you have plenty of rocks you can start running lines of them across the slopes on contour. these will hold back whatever surface water longer so more of it will soak in. eventually these lines will sprout seeds that have blown in and you have the beginning of wind protection, shade and hedges. however, they must be protected from grazing somehow if you have sheep/goats/cattle...
     
  15. nohouselefttostay

    nohouselefttostay Junior Member

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    Mark,

    Awesome! sorry I deleted facebook sometime ago.

    is there someway I can send you my email safely? I am a complete stranger to this site and there seems to be all kinds of odd restrictions. I did mean 2014 but have been doing a lot of planning lately and got them confused. Yes big planning!

    Well lucky I didn't stick to my original plan of marching north from Essaouira up the beach with my backpack til I found the place! March unfortunately I will be working in Senegal at this point, I think, but it's still up in the air. The internet in Gambia is making any finalising difficult.

    with regards to your site I would be willing to pay basic living costs which I know sounds unusual but I am also in need of a place to stay until late March and possibly beyond (which by then you may need a volunteer). I am happy to do ANY kind of work you need.

    I most sincerely hope that your fundraising goes well and if we don't meet, I hope your permaculture project is productive for you and the Moroccans.

    best,

    Nick.
     
  16. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    We have more stone per hectare than an Egyptian pyramid but as you've guessed, meandering goats are a problem. What i want to do is persuade the locals to put all their little flocks together and manage the grazing as a cooperative but that's going to take time. The more effort goes into creating windbreaks, hedges, etc, the more motivated they'll be towards keeping the goats off so my vision at the moment is gabions and heavily planted swales, as much for the psychological effect of the effort required (there's a thin but very tough limestone crust just below the surface everywhere and it's a bastard to get through) and sense of ownership thereafter as for the water harvesting. But yes, why not put in multiple lines of rocks between it all too. I watched one of Geoff's lessons featuring that.
     
  17. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    First must be able to manage the goats a electric fence will be the best option short term , ive had goats on and off all my life and the only successful fencing had a hot wire , small solar powered systems like horse people use don't cost much .

    Many ways to build a suspension fence you don't need to dig holes in rock and put big posts in , insulators can be made out of any rubbish think about what you can use eg old tyres stacked up with wires in between , If you cant keep the goats off you will need to plant a 1000 Ha, and have savage guard dogs .

    Eventually a lovely big stone wall / hedge combination around the site would be terrific , our previous property had the remains of a dry stone wall on the eastern boundary wonderful creation incredible skill to build these to stand the test of time but can be done and of course a good windbreak until the veg takes over .

    The contoured rock traps look great we do a similar thing to trap silt to halt erosion in wetland , would be a great use of natural resource .

    All the best Rob
     
  18. songbird

    songbird Senior Member

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    do you have any brush at all that you can pile over the rocks? this will protect them a little bit and perhaps give them a chance to get started without a major investment in fencing.
     
  19. mark anstice

    mark anstice Junior Member

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    Yes, my thoughts are along the same lines. I tried to find some electric net suitable for goats on the way here through Spain but couldn't and now have it on order for the next time I'm back there in the van. Sounds like you used wire though? I can't imagine anything but a tall net working on the goats in these parts. They are famous for climbing the argan trees to get at the nuts and it's not unusual to see a tree festooned with goats, like huge birds roosting. It's a tourist attraction in fact. How many strands did you need?

    With walling the whole project in, as far as the farmland goes that's certainly an option as it's what they do here at the moment and to knock down and build up again a wall is no big deal. Cut argan is then put along the top to keep the goats off. To start the forest recovery a la Allan Savory we're definitely going to need electric fence.

    Best, and thanks

    Mark
     
  20. Terra

    Terra Moderator

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    When I moved here I had plenty of experience with my parents escape goats so I built a paddock out of "cyclone mesh " comes in a variety of sizes I used 8 horizontal wires with vertical wires a foot apart 4 foot high , bottom wire hard against the ground with a barb on the bottom as well . Goats still found a way to get over probably by standing on each others backs , so I installed a hot wire 3/4 the way up hanging on spreaders that kept wire about 6 inches off the main fence and a "Bull stopper energiser" which has a longer more powerfull spark . After this they never challenged the fence again .

    You probably wont need to go to that extreme , problems with ineffective electric fences come from poor earth pegs and extremely dry soil which wont conduct , so alternate earth and hot wires will work for you as they try to squeeze through they will get a nasty surprise . Maybe you could look at the conductive string type products , very light , easy to pull up tight by hand so you don't need strong support posts , down side is long runs have too much resistance and you lose power . However saying that you could get away with 5 plain wires (3 hot 2 earth) more would be better .

    A well designed thick "Boxthorn Hedge" will stop anything but of course takes time to set up .
    Rob
     

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