Biggest vertical 'farm' in the US opens.

Discussion in 'Planting, growing, nurturing Plants' started by mouseinthehouse, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Interesting... Would love to see what the nutritional content of the food is though.... Seems too sterile for good health.
     
  3. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    Well it is seems pretty much the same as any aquaponics system except for being indoors which being in the city may be a good thing.
     
  4. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    It must cost a lot to run the lighting - does't sound very sustainable to me.
     
  5. brad_kl

    brad_kl Junior Member

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    Definitely agree regarding the lighting. Good that the aquaponics in shown to work on a bigger scale but there have gotta be better ways than this...
     
  6. Sandman

    Sandman Junior Member

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    I see this as a definite step in the right direction, because it produces locally grown food which cuts way down on transportation cost and use of fossil fuel. Aquaponics systems are far from sterile. In fact they require very high levels of helpful micro-organisms at every stage of the operation. This kind of system, utilizing tilapia, is an excellent way to recycle both nutrients and water. They are not using resources from natural systems (hopefully), or polluting groundwater. They are not depleting soils. The operation can run year-round, which is excellent considering how short the growing season is in Chicago. I wish the article explained more about how they are providing the light energy they need for photosynthesis. Surely, they are taking advantage of the free energy provided by the sun and allowing sunlight in through glass windows on the roof. There's not much solar energy in Chicago in winter when the sun is low in the sky. So, they probably have to augment with grow lights, which do require electricity. Are they using renewable energy for that? Also, how are they feeding the tilapia? That feed input, along with the light, are the primary energy inputs that drive the system. Hopefully, they are using fish food derived from sustainable sources and not depleting natural fish populations. The uneaten fish food and tilapia poo make excellent worm food, which can then be made into great organic fertilizer (the worm castings). Are they doing that? This is something I've wanted to do on a personal level for a long time, but I think it actually makes more sense to do it on a much larger scale like this. I suspect there are economies of scale that make it work out better economically. I mean, I could probably do the same thing in my back yard, but my tilapia and veggies would probably end up running $10/lb or something like that by the time I factored in the cost of all the equipment, the fish food, and all my labor. And, using an old abandoned warehouse for the facility is very much in line with permaculture thinking. Working at a place like this would be fun, I think, and somewhat like working at a commercial aquarium. Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
     
  7. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I dunno Sandman, I think this is just a step in the same direction. It's based on the idea that we can continue on our merry way provided we come up with more and more complex technologies. This isn't really a natural solution.

    My personal opinion is that we need to move to more natural systems and change the desires that are driving this growth. this is a case of trying to solve a problem with the same level of consciousness that created it.

    Why not spend all that money cleaning up and existing river system? I just don't see it providing any real benefits.
     
  8. Sandman

    Sandman Junior Member

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    I feel your pain, brother. I, too, would love to see a world with food forests in every yard and all food being locally produced in a sustainable way. We are so very far from that now. So, things will have to begin turning that direction. My food forest is a step. Your garden is too, I'm sure. With something like 8 million people or whatever it is in Chicago, there's probably not enough unpaved space to grow all their food locally without utilizing aquaponics, which embraces a lot of permaculture comcepts. The benefits that I see include the following:

    They are helping to clean up river systems by not creating any polluted runoff and by reducing the pressure for converting natural forests to farmland which degrades watersheds and rivers.
    They are recycling nutrients and water, rather than using and wasting a lot of each.
    They are not polluting the groundwater.
    They are not burning massive amounts of fossil fuel transporting food from all over the world to the people of Chicago.
    They are not depleting soils, which more than 90% of all agriculture continues to do as of today.

    Can anyone add to this list? I am sure there are more.

    Their system is merely a clever way to harness the natural flows of energy that go from the sun to the tilapia to the microbes to the plants to us humans and back through again. It's actually quite natural, just advanced. Permaculture is about advancing our way of doing things in a sustainable way. Looks to me like this kind of system has the potential to be very sustainable, depending on the choices they make.

    Compared to conventional agriculture, which is absolutely horrible, I'll take this any day. With almost 7 billion people and counting, there will need to be many more ideas like this in order to make the transition to the future we all see without a world-wide catastrophe, IMHO. Personally, I think about 1-2 billion would be a lot easier to manage, but I don't want to start a big argument about population control. Peace, out.

    PS It would just be kind of nice to think that my great grandkids generation could have an opportunity to see some of the wonders of nature that will surely be gone at the current pace unless things change a lot.
     
  9. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    * Adaptively reusing an existing, under-utilised place/building, thus saving/maintaining a massive amount of embodied energy
    * Co-opting/employing local labour, thus empowering and re-localising a previously disenfranchised, food-insecure people

    I agree with Sandy (G'day, BTW) on this one: While it is not a 'perfect' solution, it certainly is a step in the right direction.
     
  10. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    OK I accept that.

    I just think it's important to be mindful of the way things can seem like solutions but are in fact coming from the same level of consciousness that created them and can thus perpetuate that same consciousness.
     
  11. Sandman

    Sandman Junior Member

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    G'day to you too there Eco. Good points and well stated. I thought of two more benefits - no chemical fertilizers and therefore another way to reduce demand for petroleum. Fish production in a way that does not pollute natural waters.

    Here in the U.S. our federal government, in their infinite wisdom, provides massive subsidies for corn, soybean, wheat, and sugar all run by big ag. I'd like to see those subsidies reduced and diverted into aquaponics projects like this, as well as food forests and other forms of polyculture.
     
  12. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I would rather see subsides put not into this large vertical farm, but rather into systems like the video below.

    [video]https://youtu.be/zMBxJTQqnRI[/video]

    Humans keep trying to reinvent the wheel when it isn't broken.
     
  13. Sandman

    Sandman Junior Member

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    Actually, both of these operations are part of the same scene that is blossoming now in Chicago. Both of them are vertical and large, and both of them produce food in a lot more sustainable way than traditional agriculture. There are other similar plants in Chicago besides just these two. I'd support any plan to reduce big ag subsidies and redirect those dollars to more sustainable urban operations like these, plus food forests and other forms of perennial polyculture for suburban and rural areas. Large is good, if it is sustainable. A large food forest is better than a small food forest. Nothing could possibly be more vertical than a food forest.
     
  14. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Yep, Chicago airport is even growing food; Detroit & NYC are also making strides in Urban Permaculture.
     
  15. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    Ultimately it comes down to a question of need. Do we need to do that, Or do we need to better manage the resources we have and our own backyards...?
     

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