UK Drought

Discussion in 'The big picture' started by Greenearth, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. Greenearth

    Greenearth Junior Member

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    Very Serious. Hardly any rain since the start of June, combined with clear skys and high temperatures. This is armagedeon folks :~ If this goes on for much longer, any more years, the trees will die, the animals will die. We can maybe keep some usual species alive with arid climate permaculture methods....mulching and swales...its looking very very very very serious. Its very upseting actually.

    Blessed be.
     
  2. Greenearth

    Greenearth Junior Member

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    The cuase being global warming induced climate change...

    ...a result of a society scismed from an awareness of the living reality of the Sacred Mother Witch, a scism generated by the means of ritual child abuse. (to make money one needs speeration, this is how the spearation in the west is made...this is infact the 'magic of the market'! Total and horrific misuse of the pentagram by the western blag mason scum. (blag means imitation/theft by the way).

    Now, you know what this means don't you now stupid aussie cont? You're a child abuser! urgh I was gonna add 'JOKE' to that..but in a way you kinda r. In particular if you are still programmed by this malign energy...if you haven't transcended to anarchist consciousness...if you get angry and all puffed up and righteous about this statement of truth...then you're still controlled by the scum. This is the actual nature of the problem, the face of the enemy that we are dealing with as permaculturalists. This is why the Mother Earth is being raped by the west...this is the source energy of thier (or perhaps still your) trip. You're fuked. Still wanna take this 'on board' personnlly. DONT EGOISE (advice)


    EXODUS
     
  3. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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  4. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    hi all

    i personally don't consider this acceptable language or conduct for our forum and i have cautioned this user in the past about it and threatened a ban from the forum if it happened again.

    and it's happening again, in more than one post already today:
    does anyone have any input on how i should deal with this? i don't want this energy on our forum. do you?

    cheers

    murray
     
  5. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Here's a little poetry to cheer you up.

    SAID HANRAHAN by John O'Brien

    "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    In accents most forlorn,
    Outside the church, ere Mass began,
    One frosty Sunday morn.


    The congregation stood about,
    Coat-collars to the ears,
    And talked of stock, and crops, and drought,
    As it had done for years.


    "It's looking crook," said Daniel Croke;
    "Bedad, it's cruke, me lad,
    For never since the banks went broke
    Has seasons been so bad."


    "It's dry, all right," said young O'Neil,
    With which astute remark
    He squatted down upon his heel
    And chewed a piece of bark.


    And so around the chorus ran
    "It's keepin' dry, no doubt."
    "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "Before the year is out."


    "The crops are done; ye'll have your work
    To save one bag of grain;
    From here way out to Back-o'-Bourke
    They're singin' out for rain.


    "They're singin' out for rain," he said,
    "And all the tanks are dry."
    The congregation scratched its head,
    And gazed around the sky.


    "There won't be grass, in any case,
    Enough to feed an ass;
    There's not a blade on Casey's place
    As I came down to Mass."


    "If rain don't come this month," said Dan,
    And cleared his throat to speak -
    "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "If rain don't come this week."


    A heavy silence seemed to steal
    On all at this remark;
    And each man squatted on his heel,
    And chewed a piece of bark.


    "We want an inch of rain, we do,"
    O'Neil observed at last;
    But Croke "maintained" we wanted two
    To put the danger past.


    "If we don't get three inches, man,
    Or four to break this drought,
    We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "Before the year is out."


    In God's good time down came the rain;
    And all the afternoon
    On iron roof and window-pane
    It drummed a homely tune.


    And through the night it pattered still,
    And lightsome, gladsome elves
    On dripping spout and window-sill
    Kept talking to themselves.


    It pelted, pelted all day long,
    A-singing at its work,
    Till every heart took up the song
    Way out to Back-o'-Bourke.


    And every creek a banker ran,
    And dams filled overtop;
    "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "If this rain doesn't stop."


    And stop it did, in God's good time;
    And spring came in to fold
    A mantle o'er the hills sublime
    Of green and pink and gold.


    And days went by on dancing feet,
    With harvest-hopes immense,
    And laughing eyes beheld the wheat
    Nid-nodding o'er the fence.


    And, oh, the smiles on every face,
    As happy lad and lass
    Through grass knee-deep on Casey's place
    Went riding down to Mass.


    While round the church in clothes genteel
    Discoursed the men of mark,
    And each man squatted on his heel,
    And chewed his piece of bark.


    "There'll be bush-fires for sure, me man,
    There will, without a doubt;
    We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "Before the year is out."
     
  6. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob Junior Member

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    Murray, it's not that difficult, really.

    1. Set out rules, in a sticky above each forum, and in the guidelines when people register an account here.[/*:m:15xopufw]
    2. The rules should boil down to: Talk about permaculture, don't spam, no porn, don't abuse individuals or large groups (nations, races, religions, sexualities, etc), and talk about permaculture, or if you can't, at least talk entertainingly.[/*:m:15xopufw]
    3. Enforce the rules with bans.[/*:m:15xopufw]
    4. If you've not the time or inclination to do so, appoint moderators, with guidelines for their decision-making, and then back those moderators up.[/*:m:15xopufw]
    It's quite simple, many forums do it, and are better places as a result.

    The guidelines or rules are usually pretty simple - don't say anything on the forums you'd not say at a party in someone else's house, or you'll be tossed out. If you go to a party and call other guests "cunt", then the host will toss you out. If you go to a party and start babbling about conspiracies, or abusing entire races, then the host will toss you out.

    Plenty of forums do it without any long-term trouble. Heaps of posters bitch and moan when rules are first brought in, and threaten to leave... they almost always come back, and anyway it's a big internet, one person leaves, another two come in, and the community goes on.
     
  7. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    hey jim

    >Murray, it's not that difficult, really.

    actually it is. the last time i acted in the best interests of the forum there was a revolt and people accused me of being a fascist. so lately i have been seeking community input on how to handle issues like this.

    >Set out rules ... in the guidelines when people register an account here.

    the rules are in place when you register your account. did you perhaps agree to them without reading them?

    >Enforce the rules with bans.

    some users have expressed their concern about bans and censorship of any form and have asked that they be instead allowed to encourage the offender to play a more constructive role.

    >If you've not the time or inclination to do so, appoint moderators,
    >with guidelines for their decision-making, and then back those >moderators up.


    i have the time and inclination. why do you think i'm here making these posts?

    so - to sum up - this user is in contravention of the site rules and for the third time (in my recollection) and i would like to ban them.. i was simply seeking some further input from the community before doing so.

    cheers / thanks for your views,

    murray
     
  8. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    I'm curious to know where IGH has been for the last month?
    On hols in some treatment facility?
    His/her glurps dont worry me, as its all just unintelligible dribble (isn't it???)
    but I guess it all chews up space on the server, and is cyber-pollution.

    I have oft thought of this board as a sort of undergraduate keg party with dozens of conversations going on simultaneously. Lots of good ideas, lots of interesting thinking people. And one or two pot-heads that make no sense and bore people in the corner – I dont need an ignore button to ignore them!

    Most undergrad parties distinguish themselves for the number and variety of obsenities that can be strung together in one sentence!
     
  9. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    hey heuristics
    fair enough, but this board isn't an undergrad keg party to me.

    and i do think you'd have a different view if you were the one being called a "stupid aussie cont" or a "child abuser".

    m.
     
  10. heuristics

    heuristics Junior Member

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    OK.
    I guess I didnt think he was talking to you specifically.
    I thought he was just abusing us all equally.
     
  11. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day Infinategodhead, Murray, and Fellow Forum Members :)

    Infinategodhead: While I empathise with your position and encourage your passion I do not condone your choice of words. Personally your speech does not concern me but because I am aware that others my find it confronting I implore you to modify your langauge for the sake of all sentient beings.

    Murray: I respect your position and feel that you have performed your duties with diligence, however I do not support censorship of any kind and as such I will not add my voice in favour of a ban. Furthermore, and regardless of the content of any post, I will continue to seek knowledge and wisdom from all who post here as I wish you well in your task as Moderator - a role that I do not envy.

    Fellow Forum Members: I enjoy each and every one of your posts and wish to state right now my belief that if someone has taken the time to express their thoughts - no matter if I believe they are deluded or not - then I am going to give them the opportunity to do so. Of course in the event that I do find those expressed thoughts could be hurtful to others, ie. "aussie cont", then I will ask that person to moderate their speech (see above).

    This is a nice space; a friendly place, on the whole. I enjoy relaxing here for a few minutes each day. May we all grow and learn to be mindful of our speech, our thoughts and actions.

    Peace to you all,

    Mark.
     
  12. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob Junior Member

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    Murray writes, "the rules are in place when you register your account. did you perhaps agree to them without reading them? "

    Yes, like 90% of your other forum users. But hey, guess what, I'm not a person abusing individuals, races, etc. Nor do I post porn. And what little I know about permaculture, I try to post about in a clear and interesting way. So on the whole, even without reading the rules, we can say that I am at worse a net zero contributor to the forum, and a more generous view would be, a net positive.

    Whereas certain other users...

    In any case, it's not really clear that there are any rules, in fact... Has anyone other than a spammer been banned? The moment a single moderator deleted a single offensive post, he was removed as a moderator, and two other people who hadn't deleted any posts were removed as moderators, too; one of the moderators hadn't even logged in during the time of the moderators' "offences". That hardly suggests that the site owner gives a damn about people tossing about abuse...

    Murray writes, "some users have expressed their concern about bans and censorship of any form and have asked that they be instead allowed to encourage the offender to play a more constructive role. "

    Whereas other users have said, "ban 'em." You can attempt to run things "democractically", but in the end that comes down to the loudest and most frequent posters determining policy, which is not always a good thing. So in the end it comes down to, "what kind of forum do you, the site owner, want to have?" Decide that, and act accordingly. Write a "wish list" or something :)

    ecodharmark writes, "I do not support censorship of any kind"

    It's strange the way we go from "don't abuse people and groups" to "ZOMFG, censorship!" It's not censorship, it's common courtesy and common sense. Which is what a society has. Walk up to a cop sometime and say, "stupid pig", or if you pass a black man in the street say, "dumb nigger." Then when they're beating the crap out of you, say, "but freedom of speech, man!"

    Traditionally, "fighting words", words designed to cause insult and offence, and start fights, have been excluded from the protection of "freedom of speech." That's not censorship, it's just common sense and common courtesy. That's how we can have societies of several million people without breaking down into mass murder.

    Me, I get put off forums by this sort of thing. If I see threads and posts by people talking about dams and aquaponics and solar power and so on, I think "great! I'm going to be able to learn something!" But if I log in and see posts about Zionist conspiracies and Masoic ritual child abuse, and people calling each "cunt", well, I kinda get discouraged and wander off to some other site.

    I'll keep wandering back every now and then to check on it, but I'll eventually get discouraged and give up if it continues. Now, I don't expect anyone to miss me, but there are bound to be other posters you will miss - or who you'd have missed if you ever knew they'd come. Some people will come along, look at the contents of the forum, and only if it's interesting will they register.

    Which is why I say, you have to ask yourself what kind of forum you want to have. If you allow racism, abuse, and plain old lunacy, well then eventually most of the non-racist, non-abusive, and more or less sane people will wander off. Then...? But if you want the place to continue as it has been, a place of lively and informative discussion of permaculture, then you've got to have a bit of a spring-clean.

    You've built something good, here. If you want it to continue, then you can't let it be ruined because a few people say, "oh no man, censorship!" whenever you have the temerity to suggest that people shouldn't call each-other "cunt".

    You've built something good. Keep building.
     
  13. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    thanks for the great post jim.

    i agree 100% actually.

    in the course of building this place, i've been told off for various people for not stepping in and doing something in time. and i've been told off doing just that. i just can't win.

    ultimately though, i do think it's my responsibility to enforce the rules of conduct as set out in the signup procedure and exclude those who can't abide by it.

    m
     
  14. Cornonthecob

    Cornonthecob Junior Member

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  15. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    Totally agree. The screams of censorship etc are always loud, but the consequences of ignoring this type of behaviour are far worse.
     
  16. Jez

    Jez Junior Member

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    FWIW Murray, I think that disagreements between people at least making some efort to be respectful while they disagree, are an entirely different thing to outright abuse without any cause.

    The 2nd post of this thread falls into the category of the latter to me.
     
  17. christopher

    christopher Junior Member

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    Murray,

    If the guy has been warned no to use language like that, if he insists on posting "Aussie cont", dump him. The whole spiritual goddess/ganja/western paradigm/masonic/child abuse thing is just silly, and it has offended a few people here (not me, some of it is worth a chuckle, even) but the resorting to nationalism, this stupid "Aussie cont" thing, negates anything else he contributes (which, apparently is of debateable merit, anyway....)

    Over the years, I have noticed that when someone has an argument they lack the ability to defend, they go nationalistic. Almost everytime you see someone engaging in a nationalistic denigration it is because all other avenues of reason have been exhausted, and not wanting to back down from an indefensible position, the entry of nationalism is meant to change the focus of the disagreement. This seems silly in that permaculture, while an Aussie export, is ambraced worldwide and should be a unifier.

    I think he has been warned several times now, and he should understand what the limits are in this community. Give him another opportunity. If IGH stops with the offensive language in question (the "Aussie cont"), then he should be allowed to stay, even if many feel that his posts are the gibberish of someone who is completely zonked on "the goddess".

    If, however, he continues calling people "conts", dump him, ban him, send him packages of dog turds for Christmas, whatever. If he is too stupid to modify his behaviour, then this place isn't valued by hyim enough to warrant his being here. If after these chances he still doesn't behave, he is not likely to improve, and he can be safely dumped knowing he spurned his opportunities to conform to the standards of this community.

    It may be a mute point, anyway. He signed off his last post with "EXODUS", meaning maybe he has "fuked" off and is gone.....

    And, I think I am with Jez on this. The content of IGHs post is seriously loopy, as well as disrespectful. I am copying and pasting it here so that the discussion can remain focused on the original topic, which is this posters imbalanced and abusive post:

    And, BTW, Mungbeans, thanks for the poem!

    C
     
  18. Richard on Maui

    Richard on Maui Junior Member

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    People come and go from this forum for lots of reasons, like they do with all forums. IFG will go away if we ignore him, I bet you anything.

    To put this particular conflict in context a little bit, people in the UK, especially in Scotland for some reason, use the "C" word a lot more than people in Australia, in every day language. It obviously doesn't translate very well into text without causing offence. I think, and may be wrong here, but it is a bit like if an Australian affectionately called an American friend a " cheeky bastard". The American would be mortified, whereas the Aussie was giving his greatest endorsement.

    But you know, if you are offended by this bloke, what does that say about you?
     
  19. Mungbeans

    Mungbeans Junior Member

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    I don't understand him enough to be offended.


    Its an old favourite from when I was a kid. I remember it being quoted in the background of a documentary about a drought back in the 1960s. Whenever someone in conversation would complain about the weather, my Dad would add "We'll all be rooned!" :D
     
  20. Jim Bob

    Jim Bob Junior Member

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    Good, I thought it was 50-50 whether you'd agree or ban me :lol:

    One of the songs my father likes to sing rather tunelessly runs, "well you can't please everyone, so you might as well please yourself" 8)
     

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